Topic: TradeHill - Why we no longer accept Dwolla and an open letter to Ben Milne - page 13. (Read 37528 times)

How did you expect them to tell people why they all of a sudden do not accept Dwolla?

Huge mistake on Tradehills part making this such a public issue.  Not only gives the scammers information but limits what Dwolla can and will be willing to do to make things right with Tradehill since you are basically tarnishing their name to the Bitcoin community.

The way business works, right or wrong, is Dwolla will assess the situation and calculate how long it will take them to recover money that they would have to eat to cover the fraudulent transactions to tradehill.  At $.25 a transaction this would be a hell of a lot.  Being that Tradehill made this such a public issue I would assume they will be less willing to come to any type of settlement and might just want to distance themselves from Bitcoin entirely.

Normal business practices are that if you have a problem with a b2b vendor you make sure it doesn't affect your customers.  Tradehill collects a commission on each sale and that commission should be enough that Tradehill can withstand any type of problem they have with their vendors.  If the commission isn't enough to alleviate this this risk then they aren't charging enough, aren't doing enough to limit their risk, or both.

Very amatuerish on Tradehills part to make this such a public issue.

Take it to Dwolla's FaceBook!  I just posted there.

Bastards! I went on their facebook page (I was the only one making a fuss on there) and posted a direct link to the open letter and asked them to please tell their side.  They replied by saying, "we are not a member of that forum, do you have any specific questions that we can answer"

I said yes, I guess my main question would be why are you guys ignoring Tradehills attempts to clarify a huge problem (something like that I dont know exactly what I typed.... I also said that "there are hundreds if not thousands of Dwolla users on that forum, that doesn't bother you? "

I came home to see if they responded and they blocked me from their page or deleted it all together cause I can't access it anymore through facebook.

EDIT TO ADD: if you use facebook it wouldn't hurt to "like" their page and give them a little push.

Its Tradehill they tried to fuck, by trying to pass on the buck. It's all Dwolla's fault for being greedy. They should have to pay.

I believe you would win at arbitration. Dwolla cannot interplead out of the dispute because they don't have the funds anymore. All Dwolla can do is claim fraud. TradeHill will ask Dwolla to show any evidence that they engaged in fraud. They will have none.

That Dwolla was defrauded by a third party explains their breach, but it doesn't legally excuse it. It creates an obligation on TradeHill to minimize the damages as best they reasonably can once Dwolla notifies them, which it sounds like TradeHill did even though Dwolla never notified them. Dwolla is not liable for the full amount of the transfers, but they are liable for the full amount of TradeHill's damages.

Even Dwolla's change in their ToU doesn't change this. Dwolla retaining a right to chargeback just means they can take the money back before they go to arbitration. It doesn't mean they get to keep it unless they can prove they're entitled to it. I believe they will still lose in arbitration. To be entitled to keep the amount charged back, Dwolla would to prove fraud, unjust enrichment, or the like. There is still no provision of law or in their agreement that makes one customer liable for another customer's fraud or breach. There is no "your money was fraudulently taken from me" defense. That Jill defrauded you out of Jack's money is no defense when Jack wants his money back.

Credit card chargebacks don't work that way only because of specific Federal consumer protection laws. To my knowledge, no such laws help Dwolla. Dwolla is going to learn a hard lesson -- there's a good reason everyone else isn't doing what they're doing.

Dwolla went back and altered their account statements, and didn't even notify them?

That's FRAUD. Lawsuit time, guys.

I am in 100% agreement with you! Time will tell, let's wait for Dwolla's response.

I've followed the details with interest.  Tradehill's statements leaves the impression that an explanation of the problem, much less and acceptable solution, was not forthcoming.  Yet some random blogger can get the details about a third-party's issues out of tech support with no problem?

If the info given to a blogger by Dwolla was factually incorrect, did harm to Tradehill, and was published, that strikes me as 'pretty wrong' on the part of Dwolla.  How wrong?  Time will tell.

This could be a huge screw up for them, especially how they are handling it.
News just said dwolla hit 1 million transactions and a good bit of that comes from bitcoin and I'm sure tradehill.

heck I'm on there I dont know too many people who trade coins who arent. I wonder if they know how many people are watching this crap and are getting pretty damn annoyed, even if they havent been directly effected.

Why would they care?  If it were DWOLLA having to shell out the thousands in bogus transactions, they'd care.  When they see income drop from Tradehill not accepting them, then they'll care.

I wonder if Dwolla's investors are even aware of this situation,

Veridian Group and TMG investment:
https://www.veridiancu.org/
http://www.themembersgroup.com/

You'd have a decent case considering they have no terms and conditions listed on their website.

You'd also be tied up for months/years trying to get money.

He's doing the right thing - by refusing to allow deposits from them, he is hitting them in the wallet, where they will feel it the loudest and the quickest.

On another note, if you guys are their second biggest customer, they will I'm sure notice the sudden lack of money on their side.

I think I should just open a service for changing dollars into bitcoins lol... Cash only!!!  It's crazy how much all of these various merchants (paypal, banks, etc) are slanted towards tolerating scamming.

It's not even just one way - PayPal has managed to f*ck me as a buyer and a seller on numerous occasions.  I always ask them the same question - "I can take someones money through paypal, and you guys wont give it back to them?  AWESOME!"

I wish you'd have lawyers get involved in this.   

It's been 3.5 hours already.  I'll email, thanks

Withdrawals are processing fine. We are manually doing everything to make sure we don't cash out a scammer so there may be a slight delay.
Shoot an email to [email protected] if it's not taken care of half an hour.

Jered

Um, firstly, if you read above Jered mentioned that he has no problem reaching low level customer service, which anyone can do.

This is a stupid blog post which has no merits.
Obviously, if the blogger read tradehillblog.com she would see she's incorrect.

""I contacted Dwolla Customer Service who explained to me it was TradeHill improperly crediting the accounts of users prior to confirmation that the transactions had cleared. ""

So if you read the blog (http://tradehillblog.com/2011/07/25/tradehill-audit-discovers-dwolla-transactions-are-reversible/)

July 11th
Transaction ID 169552 shows “credit”



On July 11th we received an email from Dwolla stating that the transfer was good and could be credited.



If we look at the CSV 3 days later it shows “pending” by this point the scammer had already converted their funds to BTC and removed them.



We have asked specifically if a transaction can go from “credited” to “pending” in their system and if we should wait to credit these transactions.  Dwolla has repeatidly assured us that this is not possible and TradeHill should credit anything showing “credited” on their statement / CSV or if we receive an email.

What is the story with withdrawals?  I have a pending withdrawal of USD->Dwolla I'm waiting on.

I thought that it was interesting that a blogger was, apparently, able to get right through to Dwolla and obtain fairly detailed information about what the problem is:

  "I contacted Dwolla Customer Service who explained to me it was TradeHill improperly crediting the accounts of users prior to confirmation that the transactions had cleared. "

  From: http://fmqinc.com/tradehill-bitcoin-exchange-fraudulent-scandal/

Hopefully if/when Milne responds, he'll be able to explain the apparent discrepancies between the above statement and the CSVs and/or a little bit more on how the CSVs, balances, etc were supposed to have been interpreted and why.

Failing that, I would add to the list of complaints against Dwolla, defamation and libel.