TradeHill - Why we no longer accept Dwolla and an open letter to Ben Milne - page 4.

Smalleyster

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

I yam what I yam. - Popeye

Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on July 28, 2011, 01:24:24 PM

Quote from: enmaku on July 28, 2011, 01:15:24 PM

[

From Paxum's web site, main page:

Quote

Transaction   Personal Account   Business Account
ATM Withdrawal   $2.00   $2.00
Peer to Peer   $0.25   $1.00
Wire Transfer   $50   $50

Granted you'd have a visa/mastercard that you can use to spend money from your Paxum account, but $50 is a bit much to move cash from one place to another.

From their fee page https://www.paxum.com/payment/fees.php?view=views/fees.xsl

Loading Funds By ACH $5.00

Jered

Does that then translate to:

I load funds into my paxum account by ACH; costs me $5.00

I then send to my peer (Tradehill, business account); costs me $1.00

Total cost to send money from bank to TH is then $6.00?

SteveFL

newbie

Activity: 33

Merit: 0

Someone claiming to be from Dwolla just called me to "verify details of my account" from a 515-422-xxxx number. They wanted me to give my name and address. I declined and said I don't know who you really are. I've never done a single deposit to them, only withdrawls from Mt Gox and TradeHill.

They may be quiet on this issue, but they're doing something to cover their ass now.

enmaku

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: Vladimir on July 28, 2011, 01:33:38 PM

Just strike a deal with one/many of many low cost wire transfer/exchange players like xe.com. Pass the discount to customers. Here you go, problem solved. There still will be some fees but much more reasonable than what banks charge. Probably not suitable for sending 20$ but for 500$+ it would do.

Leave it to vlad to pose a solution that doesn't work for the little guy Wink

In all seriousness it's a good idea and I'd take it and run with it but we do still need a Dwolla-esque solution for the $20 spenders or we're about to see some serious liquidity problems.

Vladimir

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1001

-

Just strike a deal with one/many of many low cost wire transfer/exchange players like xe.com. Pass the discount to customers. Here you go, problem solved. There still will be some fees but much more reasonable than what banks charge. Probably not suitable for sending 20$ but for 500$+ it would do.

Smalleyster

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

I yam what I yam. - Popeye

New non-reply email just hit the box:

Dwolla Support
JUL 28, 2011 | 01:25PM CDT
David,

Thank you for your inquiry. If you have any questions about Dwolla or about any of our processes please do not hesitate to ask. We would be happy to explain the system. Due to privacy standards we can not provide information about other users or merchants but would be happy to answer any question you have about Dwolla or your account.

David
JUL 27, 2011 | 06:19PM CDT
When will you refund TradeHill's money?

When will you announce in public what you have done and why?

Thank you
********** note; there are other non-replys that I trimmed bc already posted

enmaku

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on July 28, 2011, 01:24:24 PM

Quote from: enmaku on July 28, 2011, 01:15:24 PM

[

From Paxum's web site, main page:

Quote

Transaction   Personal Account   Business Account
ATM Withdrawal   $2.00   $2.00
Peer to Peer   $0.25   $1.00
Wire Transfer   $50   $50

Granted you'd have a visa/mastercard that you can use to spend money from your Paxum account, but $50 is a bit much to move cash from one place to another.

From their fee page https://www.paxum.com/payment/fees.php?view=views/fees.xsl

Loading Funds By ACH $5.00

Jered

Hadn't noticed that, I stand corrected. It's still a pretty big fee increase from Dwolla but if they can't get their act together and fix this nonsense I'll take it.

Enochian

full member

Activity: 327

Merit: 124

Quote from: Smalleyster on July 28, 2011, 12:38:03 PM

The opportunity is to *replace* dwolla with a service that keeps its word. All they are is a webite using the ACH system. Pretty simple stuff really.

Dwolla is kind of misrepresenting what they can do if they advertise non-reversible transactions and use ACH.

Federal law requires banks to make funds available from reasonably sized deposits within three days, but the interbank clearing period is 14 days, after which, absent extreme circumstances, the transaction can no longer be reversed.

We're all familiar with the scam where a Nigerian sends someone a "Cashier's Check" and tells them to deposit it and wait for it to "clear", and then wire them a percentage of the money. They wire funds from their account, only to find a large negative balance a week later .

It's not unreasonable for Dwolla to uncredit funds where a bank transfer to them is later reversed. It is unreasonable for them to advertise the transaction as "final" before they have "good funds" from the person sending the money.

This is a case, as the old saying goes, of "the mouth writing a check the ass can't cash."

Jered Kenna (TradeHill)

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: enmaku on July 28, 2011, 01:15:24 PM

[

From Paxum's web site, main page:

Quote

Transaction   Personal Account   Business Account
ATM Withdrawal   $2.00   $2.00
Peer to Peer   $0.25   $1.00
Wire Transfer   $50   $50

Granted you'd have a visa/mastercard that you can use to spend money from your Paxum account, but $50 is a bit much to move cash from one place to another.

From their fee page https://www.paxum.com/payment/fees.php?view=views/fees.xsl

Loading Funds By ACH $5.00

Jered

enmaku

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on July 28, 2011, 12:42:45 PM

Quote from: becoin on July 28, 2011, 12:29:44 PM

Quote from: Newton on July 28, 2011, 11:58:22 AM

why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla?

What for? Bitcoin businesses were interested in Dwolla only because of their "no chargeback" policy! Now it is quite clear they do not have such a technology or know-how in place. So, they are not attractive anymore.

We're now using Paxum at TradeHill which has more fraud protection in place. It doesn't have all the same peer to peer features that Dwolla does but allows payments similar to Paypal. It can be funded in a similar way with a few additional options like checks and wires. It will also allow you to withdraw funds from an ATM or with a debit card.

For more information go to www.tradehillblog.com or www.paxum.com

Quote from: Smalleyster on July 28, 2011, 12:38:03 PM

The opportunity is to *replace* dwolla with a service that keeps its word. All they are is a webite using the ACH system. Pretty simple stuff really.

We feel confident that Paxum will. They've been in business a lot longer.

Jered

From Paxum's web site, main page:

Quote

Transaction   Personal Account   Business Account
ATM Withdrawal   $2.00   $2.00
Peer to Peer   $0.25   $1.00
Wire Transfer   $50   $50

Granted you'd have a visa/mastercard that you can use to spend money from your Paxum account, but $50 is a bit much to move cash from one place to another.

Newton

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: becoin on July 28, 2011, 12:29:44 PM

Quote from: Newton on July 28, 2011, 11:58:22 AM

why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla?

What for? Bitcoin businesses were interested in Dwolla only because of their "no chargeback" policy! Now it is quite clear they do not have such a technology or know-how in place. So, they are not attractive anymore.

How do you make USD cash payments to purchase bitcoins? I don't think a bank wire is very appealing to the mass market (which is precisely why bitcoins have a future).

I have a paypal account directly linked to debit my bank account. When I buy from Newegg, I can pay instantly with just a username and password, without having to put a credit card number online. You have to admit this is very convenient for the mass market.

Dwolla certainly does have many advantages beyond the no chargeback policy.

- $0.25 per transaction
- Infrastructure and relation already built with banks
- Convenient and easy USD deposit method for mass market

In Canada, Cavirtex allows online bill payment or email money transfer, so the problem is pretty much solved (although still much slower and less convenient than paypal, for many users).

Jered Kenna (TradeHill)

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: becoin on July 28, 2011, 12:29:44 PM

Quote from: Newton on July 28, 2011, 11:58:22 AM

why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla?

What for? Bitcoin businesses were interested in Dwolla only because of their "no chargeback" policy! Now it is quite clear they do not have such a technology or know-how in place. So, they are not attractive anymore.

We're now using Paxum at TradeHill which has more fraud protection in place. It doesn't have all the same peer to peer features that Dwolla does but allows payments similar to Paypal. It can be funded in a similar way with a few additional options like checks and wires. It will also allow you to withdraw funds from an ATM or with a debit card.

For more information go to www.tradehillblog.com or www.paxum.com

Quote from: Smalleyster on July 28, 2011, 12:38:03 PM

The opportunity is to *replace* dwolla with a service that keeps its word. All they are is a webite using the ACH system. Pretty simple stuff really.

We feel confident that Paxum will. They've been in business a lot longer.

Jered

Smalleyster

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

I yam what I yam. - Popeye

The opportunity is to *replace* dwolla with a service that keeps its word. All they are is a webite using the ACH system. Pretty simple stuff really.

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

Merit: 1233

Quote from: Newton on July 28, 2011, 11:58:22 AM

why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla?

What for? Bitcoin businesses were interested in Dwolla only because of their "no chargeback" policy! Now it is quite clear they do not have such a technology or know-how in place. So, they are not attractive anymore.

indio007

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

I think insurance is the missing ingredient here. It could be limited to large transactions. you could even make it optional. If you don't get the insurance you waive the exchange from liability.

There are plenty of ways to manage the risk.

Viceroy

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 501

Quote from: the founder on July 28, 2011, 12:06:24 PM

Quote from: enmaku on July 28, 2011, 12:01:01 PM

Quote from: Newton on July 28, 2011, 11:58:22 AM

That brings up an interesting idea. If the bitcoin volume is really as significant a percentage of Dwolla's revenue as some suggest, why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla? If bitcoins are a large part of their revenue, it could be a profitable investment even with a significant loan.

A USD exchange needs something like Dwolla's existing infrastructure to take in cash efficiently for the mass market, and they probably make a larger profit per dollar moved than Dwolla does.

Mt Gox buying Dwolla = instant monopoly...

Not even close.

* Viceroy looks at the self promoting thread hijacker

enmaku

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: the founder on July 28, 2011, 12:06:24 PM

Quote from: enmaku on July 28, 2011, 12:01:01 PM

Quote from: Newton on July 28, 2011, 11:58:22 AM

That brings up an interesting idea. If the bitcoin volume is really as significant a percentage of Dwolla's revenue as some suggest, why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla? If bitcoins are a large part of their revenue, it could be a profitable investment even with a significant loan.

A USD exchange needs something like Dwolla's existing infrastructure to take in cash efficiently for the mass market, and they probably make a larger profit per dollar moved than Dwolla does.

Mt Gox buying Dwolla = instant monopoly...

Not even close.

Tradehill is the biggest MtGox competitor for USD trades and it has 7.8% of Mt Gox's volume. Also, for moving USD into and out of exchanges, Dwolla is the standard right now. Perhaps the EUR or PLN markets would still thrive elsewhere but for USD trades, MtGox + Dwolla accounts for the vast majority of the market. How exactly would such a merger be "Not even close"?

the founder

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 251

Bitcoin

Quote from: enmaku on July 28, 2011, 12:01:01 PM

Quote from: Newton on July 28, 2011, 11:58:22 AM

That brings up an interesting idea. If the bitcoin volume is really as significant a percentage of Dwolla's revenue as some suggest, why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla? If bitcoins are a large part of their revenue, it could be a profitable investment even with a significant loan.

A USD exchange needs something like Dwolla's existing infrastructure to take in cash efficiently for the mass market, and they probably make a larger profit per dollar moved than Dwolla does.

Mt Gox buying Dwolla = instant monopoly...

Not even close.

enmaku

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: Newton on July 28, 2011, 11:58:22 AM

That brings up an interesting idea. If the bitcoin volume is really as significant a percentage of Dwolla's revenue as some suggest, why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla? If bitcoins are a large part of their revenue, it could be a profitable investment even with a significant loan.

A USD exchange needs something like Dwolla's existing infrastructure to take in cash efficiently for the mass market, and they probably make a larger profit per dollar moved than Dwolla does.

Mt Gox buying Dwolla = instant monopoly...

Newton

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Vladimir on July 28, 2011, 11:49:51 AM

Who cares about VC's sabotaging TH funding efforts. We can fund TH with bitcoins.

BTW... losing a lawsuit with fraud related allegations would almost certainly finish Dwoola at this stage. Even a potential of such lawsuit probably devalues Dwoola already.

Here is an idea for TH: sue Dwoola and take 70% of their equity as settlement.

That brings up an interesting idea. If the bitcoin volume is really as significant a percentage of Dwolla's revenue as some suggest, why couldn't a bitcoin business buy Dwolla? If bitcoins are a large part of their revenue, it could be a profitable investment even with a significant loan.

A USD exchange needs something like Dwolla's existing infrastructure to take in cash efficiently for the mass market, and they probably make a larger profit per dollar moved than Dwolla does.

Vladimir

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1001

-

Who cares about VC's sabotaging TH funding efforts. We can fund TH with bitcoins.

BTW... losing a lawsuit with fraud related allegations would almost certainly finish Dwoola at this stage. Even a potential of such lawsuit probably devalues Dwoola already.

Here is an idea for TH: sue Dwoola and take 70% of their equity as settlement.

Topic: TradeHill - Why we no longer accept Dwolla and an open letter to Ben Milne - page 4. (Read 37509 times)