Trading has become too much akin to gambling. Let's embrace it - page 3.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: Z390 on December 08, 2024, 03:10:51 AM

Gambling based on the fluctuating price of Bitcoin is highly risky to me compared to normal gambling, I think I will still prefer to use a centralised exchange for high risk trade and that is because I can still manage to lower my risk even with very high leverage.

I am surprised that no one is talking about the tools available on centralised exchanges for taking trades, the chances of winning is there if you know how to use them, but just blindly predicting the price of Bitcoin in an hours time feels too risky to me.

Yeah, I do agree that it's too risk to gamble on it and I have before now mentioned that, while trading on centralized exchange, you can have a lowered risk that can at least protect your asset from being totally liquidated but if perhaps one is betting on the price of Bitcoin, there's no risk management because the moment a player's prediction is wrong, the amount staked is lost.

Cryptmuster

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Quote from: STT on December 08, 2024, 06:20:36 PM

Consumer based trading and gambling has similar laws in some places, both are risk based choices for adults to possibly gain or lose from and so theres more similar then dissimilar I think.

I used to have accounts with a sports and finance based broker, got the same credit given with both up until a few years back then it got more regulated and promotions discouraged so they had to retract what was a really good deal. Used to send me stuff on my birthday, free hedges free bets now nothing sadly.

The OP idea is not unheard of and I hope it propagates, its possible but how possible will vary by country and the laws governing I guess.

For me, trading and gambling are quite different, because in gambling there is always a luck factor, you can bet on a team that will dominate and attack the whole match, but the opponent will catch them on the counterattack and they will lose this match, and everything will end quickly, the game lasts no more than two halves. In trading, I will not allow a deal in which luck can decide something, I make significantly fewer deals in trading than bets in betting, and each deal is under my control, I do not allow big losses, I do not even see the point in comparing all this because these are different things for me.

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Quote from: Hispo on December 08, 2024, 04:44:23 PM

I kind of disagree with you, it is true most of shitcoins and memecoins are just a vehicle for people in the cryptocurrency market to gamble their money away, though when comes to Bitcoin, Ethereum and other blue chip alternative currencies, there are factors which definitely affect their value in the market, which can be predictible and used by traders to make a profit off those factors... being the most obvious one of them (in the case of Bitcoin) the programmed halving and the amount of hash rate there is in the network, obviously, after halvings there is a tendency for Bitcoin to start to raise in value.

As a miner I can tell you that hashrate has nothing to do with price, price is the one dictating the hashrate, higher prices higher revenues higher hashrate as miners buy more gear to make more profits, if hashrate would do anything to the price then it would be pretty simple, we all would just buy gear and the price would go up, well, not that simple!

Second, no, bitcoin didn't act like any blue chip company at all, one clear example is how it behaves when it touches round prices, you always have a back and forth as people take profits and so on, like now with 100k, like it was with 100 and 10 000, this thing doesn't happen for companies, but most importantly, there is no pattern in it, you don't have anything to actually trade based on other than your guts of it going up, there is no number from which to start your TA other that past experience, and we all know how that went.

Trading cryptos is gambling, it's just the ego of traders that denies it.

STT

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Consumer based trading and gambling has similar laws in some places, both are risk based choices for adults to possibly gain or lose from and so theres more similar then dissimilar I think.

I used to have accounts with a sports and finance based broker, got the same credit given with both up until a few years back then it got more regulated and promotions discouraged so they had to retract what was a really good deal. Used to send me stuff on my birthday, free hedges free bets now nothing sadly.

The OP idea is not unheard of and I hope it propagates, its possible but how possible will vary by country and the laws governing I guess.

o48o

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Quote from: alani123 on December 03, 2024, 05:46:52 PM

-cut-
Would you gamble on casino games that are based around the real fluctuations of BTC's price?

I would say no, because i can already use exchanges for that. There aren't any benefits for me to gamify it any more.

I have been considering it as gambling for a long time, especially high leverage trading. People used to call Okcoin (OKX these days) as OkCasino, because of the high leverage. And some ogs were calling themselves as degenerate gamblers. Some of it were ironic, but some of it i am sure, to make sure that people wouldn't see them as financial advisors.

But if you are looking as No KYC as a key factor, you might want to wrap things up in those places, because regulatory compliance is coming to everywhere. There's no stopping it, so enjoy no kyc for now, but prepare for envitable kyc in the future.

Hispo

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Quote from: stompix on December 08, 2024, 04:21:43 PM

Trading crypto has always been gambling!
Everyone saying otherwise just doesn't want to admit they are gamblers, trading crypto has nothing to do with trading forex options which relies on decisions by government and central banks about their currency, and has nothing to do with stocks that are influenced by the economy and the performance of the company in revenues and profits, trading crypto is just based on prayers something happens or for the scalpers on nothing happening.
Every single TA has been thrown in the trash next day, every pattern has been broken, every single time people tried to find one tweet from a celebrity or a politician and chaos was all around.

So why not gamble at a casino, after all betting on Musk saying something about Doge is the same as buying doge futures.

Quote from: alani123 on December 03, 2024, 05:46:52 PM

No KYC, no regulatory restrictions as imposed on traditional markers, unlimited leverage... You name it.

No KYC? You wish!

I kind of disagree with you, it is true most of shitcoins and memecoins are just a vehicle for people in the cryptocurrency market to gamble their money away, though when comes to Bitcoin, Ethereum and other blue chip alternative currencies, there are factors which definitely affect their value in the market, which can be predictible and used by traders to make a profit off those factors... being the most obvious one of them (in the case of Bitcoin) the programmed halving and the amount of hash rate there is in the network, obviously, after halvings there is a tendency for Bitcoin to start to raise in value. Trading can be turned into gambling if one is not careful and abuse of tools like leverage in the future markets, but it does not have to be that way necessarily. There are people who will just stick to the spot market and not use leverage.

stompix

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Trading crypto has always been gambling!
Everyone saying otherwise just doesn't want to admit they are gamblers, trading crypto has nothing to do with trading forex options which relies on decisions by government and central banks about their currency, and has nothing to do with stocks that are influenced by the economy and the performance of the company in revenues and profits, trading crypto is just based on prayers something happens or for the scalpers on nothing happening.
Every single TA has been thrown in the trash next day, every pattern has been broken, every single time people tried to find one tweet from a celebrity or a politician and chaos was all around.

So why not gamble at a casino, after all betting on Musk saying something about Doge is the same as buying doge futures.

Quote from: alani123 on December 03, 2024, 05:46:52 PM

No KYC, no regulatory restrictions as imposed on traditional markers, unlimited leverage... You name it.

No KYC? You wish!

fullhdpixel

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on December 04, 2024, 03:29:06 AM

But still casinos can ask KYC to their members so that will be the same as if you trade on the exchanges. Well, that will not be a problem for me whether I trade on the exchanges or casino but so far, I am not trade in the casino and only use exchanges. I still feel comfortable trading in the exchanges than casino because exchanges is the right place to trade while casino is the right place to playing gambling. But if some people want to try to trade in the casino, that will be up to them but they must responsible with what they will do.

Yes. Even though there are also decentralized services but I think many casinos now still don't ask a KYC, or don't mandate it compared to the trading exchanges. It can be because gambling is mostly created for fun purposes while trading exchanges are the ones who are primarily built for money / money making purposes. Each platform has its own set of rules apart from KYC and some of it may be awkward to us if ever we interchange one activity (Example, trade on a casino, or vice versa).

bangjoe

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Quote from: Raflesia on December 08, 2024, 03:25:02 AM

Quote from: bangjoe on December 05, 2024, 11:50:32 AM

Similar does not mean the same, all of them have the risk of both gambling and trading both have things that cannot be guaranteed accurate predictions, but in the struggle trading you can maintain your position by increasing the amount of liquidity of your position to hold your position so that it is not isolated or hit by a margin call .

In the past, I had also been in the perception that the futures trading was a gambling but after I explored, the fact was not like that, we only did not understand the mechanism as a whole, how we can revenue it in trade, except binary trade, I am very sure that it Just like gambling.

good sentence my friend, indeed these two things are almost similar but it does not mean that the same is true. There are similarities between these two things, namely the existence of losses and profits that can be obtained, only trading can be done well with sufficient knowledge so that it can provide profits that can be said to be certain, while with gambling, no matter how good the skills are, it does not guarantee that you will be able to get a profit, but both of these things are inseparable from luck too.

it is difficult to determine which is more profitable because maybe if we talk about profit, it depends on each person's luck and skills, but for now there are so many people whose lives are ruined because of gambling, although there are also those who do trading who go bankrupt but the number is lower.

Anything in the journey of life is indeed inseparable from an event that is mentioned that luck is a factor X in a journey of human life, but luck itself will not come if you don't do any efforts, just like you find money on the road, you don't Will find it if you don't wake up from your bed then take a walk out of the house.

Gambling is the mechanism as we do not know what happened after taking a bet on a form of activity, we only guess and apply in a relatively short time count to see the results, talking who is more loss, it is true that gamblers lose more money than Traders, with notes they have the same time to study their fields.

mammusu

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on December 06, 2024, 10:38:35 AM

Quote from: serjent05 on December 05, 2024, 12:14:33 PM

Isn't this a Binary Option? Well, I think it is worth to try if any gambling platform where I play offers this kind of service. I think if one is so keen on the Bitcoin price movement, this gambling on the fluctuation of price of Bitcoin will surely give that person an advantage. This is like a skill-based gambling where the insight and prediction skill of a person is tested.

Yeah it's similar to binary option where you choose to bet low or high for short period of time.

I don't really sure if it's a skill based games because when the price just move like $100 or 0.1%, you could lose, the price movement is unpredictable, not to mention which sites that Rollbit use for their futures.

The price movement from one exchange to other could be different.

Binary options trading is indeed similar to gambling because it relies more on Speculation without in-depth analysis in determining the options we take, on the contrary, futures trading Requires a deeper understanding of the market and more complex analysis to deetermine the right strategy, but between the two trading options, I think Spot trading is the most appropriate trading option for us, because actually spot trding is a good first step to learn the basics of trading, including to understand how the market works and how to do technical and fundamental analysis, so that It can be a good capital if we want to try to do future trading.

Raflesia

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Quote from: bangjoe on December 05, 2024, 11:50:32 AM

Similar does not mean the same, all of them have the risk of both gambling and trading both have things that cannot be guaranteed accurate predictions, but in the struggle trading you can maintain your position by increasing the amount of liquidity of your position to hold your position so that it is not isolated or hit by a margin call .

In the past, I had also been in the perception that the futures trading was a gambling but after I explored, the fact was not like that, we only did not understand the mechanism as a whole, how we can revenue it in trade, except binary trade, I am very sure that it Just like gambling.

good sentence my friend, indeed these two things are almost similar but it does not mean that the same is true. There are similarities between these two things, namely the existence of losses and profits that can be obtained, only trading can be done well with sufficient knowledge so that it can provide profits that can be said to be certain, while with gambling, no matter how good the skills are, it does not guarantee that you will be able to get a profit, but both of these things are inseparable from luck too.

it is difficult to determine which is more profitable because maybe if we talk about profit, it depends on each person's luck and skills, but for now there are so many people whose lives are ruined because of gambling, although there are also those who do trading who go bankrupt but the number is lower.

Z390

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Gambling based on the fluctuating price of Bitcoin is highly risky to me compared to normal gambling, I think I will still prefer to use a centralised exchange for high risk trade and that is because I can still manage to lower my risk even with very high leverage.

I am surprised that no one is talking about the tools available on centralised exchanges for taking trades, the chances of winning is there if you know how to use them, but just blindly predicting the price of Bitcoin in an hours time feels too risky to me.

Botnake

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Quote from: davis196 on December 08, 2024, 02:58:54 AM

I personally wouldn't bet on BTC(or altcoin) prices, because I don't find it interesting. Binary options are considered illegal in many jurisdictions.

Yeah, that could be illegal, which is why the casinos offering such options are usually the ones that don’t require KYC. Since they’re already not operating legally, whatever they offer is likely illegal as well. But just like you, I’m not interested in binary options either. I actually tried it back in 2016 when one of the sites here had a signature campaign, but I found it boring.

davis196

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Quote

Anyway, I think more casinos should follow the path of what Rollbit has been doing with its virtual futures and offer gambling services based on the BTC price. There could be several advantages. No KYC, no regulatory restrictions as imposed on traditional markers, unlimited leverage... You name it.
Maybe even there could be some algorithmic memecoin releases. Maybe you're one of the lucky ones that get 10x or one of the unlucky ones that get rugged.

1.Why no KYC? I think that most casinos and trading platforms should abide by the rules and regulations(even though I hate KYC as much as anyone else).
2.Unlimited leverage? Who the hell could offer unlimited leverage? What do you mean by "unlimited"? A billion times leverage? Grin

3.Memecoin rug pulls are a pump-and-dump scam, not gambling. If you want gambling, just play crash games.
Some platforms are offering betting on predictions about the Bitcoin price. Maybe such gambling activities aren't that popular, because there's no entertainment and it's boring to bet on the future BTC price. I personally wouldn't bet on BTC(or altcoin) prices, because I don't find it interesting. Binary options are considered illegal in many jurisdictions.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

The spot trading is the only actual trading. Anything other than spot trading is and always will be gambling. Be it options, futures, margin anything - other than spot trading.

That is why I suggest newbies to only try out spot trading and be aware of the other types of trading. Exchanges make most of the money through the non-spot trading methods because they earn just like a casino would earn. They will always promote their leverage and margins but never their spot.

So we are looking at a venn diagram, a part of the entire trading scene is gambling but a part of it is not.

Kemarit

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Quote from: Su-asa on December 07, 2024, 10:52:51 AM

Most people say that there's no difference between trading and gambling but there's a big distinction between both of them. Trading involves a lot of knowledge and skillset, it requires patience and it takes a lot of time to master. Although it's true that the market is highly volatile it doesn't change the fact that risk management can help you minimize your losses but gambling on the other hand is strictly based on luck, you don't need to study terms for months like trading. People now take irresponsible risks in trading like overly increasing their lot size and trading against the trend, these are obviously ways of gambling. You will definitely make more profit than losses in trading if you follow the rules.

Depends on the game itself though, if you are not into luck base games, but let's say into sports betting, then what you defined could fit in that category, it also involves a lot of knowledge of the game and the players and the team. You could have been fans for years and follow that sports that you become so called experts in your own right.

So I guess with that, we can say that both trading and gambling are the same. The mentality and the patience needed, because after you take a L, you might do a step back and see what went wrong or it might be you over complicated your position.

uneng

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Crypto trading on short term has always been like gambling. Day trading is gambling. And the reason why it's pretty simple: nobody can predict crypto market on short term, just like nobody can predict the outcomes of their gambling games. There is only technical analyzes on long term, what means to predict Bitcoin and altcoins prices along the cycles, based on events such as halvings, regulations, economical crisis and wars around the globe.

If there was anything solid about day trading, then we would have a much larger percentage of successful people making profit through binary options and similars. In the end, luck and randomness still play a big role on this matter. Therefore, to make extra income through this trading method or gambling are totally discouraged. People use to say casinos are the ones to always profit, and I think we can consider exchanges as well side by side with casinos.

Su-asa

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Most people say that there's no difference between trading and gambling but there's a big distinction between both of them. Trading involves a lot of knowledge and skillset, it requires patience and it takes a lot of time to master. Although it's true that the market is highly volatile it doesn't change the fact that risk management can help you minimize your losses but gambling on the other hand is strictly based on luck, you don't need to study terms for months like trading. People now take irresponsible risks in trading like overly increasing their lot size and trading against the trend, these are obviously ways of gambling. You will definitely make more profit than losses in trading if you follow the rules.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: Aanuoluwatofunmi on December 06, 2024, 05:02:54 PM

Trading is different form gambling and when we are doing the two together, we may have the chance of understanding them more better, when we trade, we are investing to make profits, when we are gambling, we are doing that to have fun, but when we mix the two altogether, it becomes akin to our body as we may not feel satisfied with what we are having.

Gambling is what everyone can easily do and has the right to engage freely without having to go through any required proceedings, because its all about being entertained, some will tell that gambling is more preferable to gambling while others the other way round, but our decision is mostly base on what we are good at.

That is right because trading can be our investment for some term if we can not sell in the near so we will have a chance to recover and make a profit. While in gambling, you will difficult to have a chance to recover from your losses and only makes your losses become big. Besides that, we are playing gambling for fun and not for make money while in trading, we want to make a profit from many coins. We have a reason why we trade so we will try to learn more about analysis the market so we can increase our chance to make money and improve our skills.

While in gambling, it is not guarantee you will always win from the games and get much money. Maybe that will only happen to those who have luck and that will not many people can get it.

Hispo

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Quote from: serjent05 on December 05, 2024, 12:14:33 PM

Quote from: alani123 on December 03, 2024, 05:46:52 PM

Would you gamble on casino games that are based around the real fluctuations of BTC's price?

... This is like a skill-based gambling where the insight and prediction skill of a person is tested.

There is no skill being tested in these gambling games in which the price of Bitcoin an other assets are supposed to be guessed in the very short time, because casinos use extremely large leverage, meaning that it only takes a little movement contrary to the prediction set by the gambler for all their wager to be pretty much gone and the session be over, there is no skill involved in that is just a coin toss and hoping for the best.
If one wished to actually try to trade with less risk and with a limite leverage then one is supposed to sign up to Binance or other actually reliable exchange services, when one has the power to adjust the level of risk one feels comfortable with.
Price prediction on casinos will be always considered to be gambling, when one compares them with the spot market for future markets with a reasonable level of leverage.

Still, being gambling it does not mean it cannot be fun to those who are seeking to have an extra injection of thrill and adrenaline while watching the price chart of bitcoin on live, while having a leveraged stake on it...

Topic: Trading has become too much akin to gambling. Let's embrace it - page 3. (Read 1210 times)