Transactions speed prevent us from going to Mainstream ? - page 4.

Josef27

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Quote from: Thekool1s on August 04, 2015, 02:06:30 AM

Quote from: Josef27 on August 04, 2015, 01:51:02 AM

Quote from: Thekool1s on August 04, 2015, 01:42:20 AM

First of all who would do a double spend on small items. Double spending is no easy task, and with normal fees too you get fast conformations. The alternative is that they introduce microwallets like faucets do. People can transfer funds to those and pay them via micro transactions which don't need conformations. Its matter of when this is going to happen, Bitcoin has all the things which the world needs

You mean by offchain? Why use cash or credit card instead because it's still a same thing as centralized?
Also now seems hard to trust someone handling the "microwallet" thing for big thing, anything can happen.

No it is not, suppose mc Donald launches there own microwallet, You can fund it, e.g 1 btc in it and when the next time you go, you simply pay by the microwallet instantly, They will be in charge of the microwallets so any losses will be covered by them. How is this linked to centralizing? They can withdraw from it when ever they want, It will be bitcoin no Macbit Tongue

If every bussiness use their own microwallet system then, that would be hard for each customer because they have to work hard to depositing each microwallet, and that just make the payments even more confusing.
Of course microwallet is centralized, because the real owner of the bussiness able to control over all of the coins

Thekool1s

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Change is in your hands

Quote from: Josef27 on August 04, 2015, 01:51:02 AM

Quote from: Thekool1s on August 04, 2015, 01:42:20 AM

First of all who would do a double spend on small items. Double spending is no easy task, and with normal fees too you get fast conformations. The alternative is that they introduce microwallets like faucets do. People can transfer funds to those and pay them via micro transactions which don't need conformations. Its matter of when this is going to happen, Bitcoin has all the things which the world needs

You mean by offchain? Why use cash or credit card instead because it's still a same thing as centralized?
Also now seems hard to trust someone handling the "microwallet" thing for big thing, anything can happen.

No it is not, suppose mc Donald launches there own microwallet, You can fund it, e.g 1 btc in it and when the next time you go, you simply pay by the microwallet instantly, They will be in charge of the microwallets so any losses will be covered by them. How is this linked to centralizing? They can withdraw from it when ever they want, It will be bitcoin no Macbit Tongue

Herbert2020

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 03, 2015, 12:31:35 PM

Could this be the reason , It's like 15-20mn to get at least 1 confirmation if I'am correct ?
Anyway the point is that we need some time to get transactions verified , could this actually prevent us from going to mainstream ? I mean if you want to buy something from McDonald are you supposed to wait 15mn while that's the time of your launch break ?

When you are buying parking tickets are you also supposed to wait few minuts ? Huh

It wouldn't make any sense .

Honestly , I'am not even sure what controls the speed of the transactions .

you are making a minor mistake about transaction speed and confirmation speed. the transaction speed is super fast in matter of seconds but the confirmation speed is longer (minutes).

businesses like McDonald (if they start accepting bitcoin) won't care about the confirmation as long as they see the transaction in their wallet. and in the hundreds of their customers i doubt if there would be even one or two who might scam them and double spend the bitcoin.

S4VV4S

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 03, 2015, 12:31:35 PM

Could this be the reason , It's like 15-20mn to get at least 1 confirmation if I'am correct ?
Anyway the point is that we need some time to get transactions verified , could this actually prevent us from going to mainstream ? I mean if you want to buy something from McDonald are you supposed to wait 15mn while that's the time of your launch break ?

When you are buying parking tickets are you also supposed to wait few minuts ? Huh

It wouldn't make any sense .

Honestly , I'am not even sure what controls the speed of the transactions .

Transactions confirmation times shouldn't be a problem.
It does however require third party to confirm the transaction for you.
E.g. Xapo offers a Bitcoin Credit Card.
I don't know how it works but I am guessing, if your account has Bitcoins in it then Xapo will confirm the transaction instantly.

Josef27

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Quote from: Thekool1s on August 04, 2015, 01:42:20 AM

First of all who would do a double spend on small items. Double spending is no easy task, and with normal fees too you get fast conformations. The alternative is that they introduce microwallets like faucets do. People can transfer funds to those and pay them via micro transactions which don't need conformations. Its matter of when this is going to happen, Bitcoin has all the things which the world needs

You mean by offchain? Why use cash or credit card instead because it's still a same thing as centralized?
Also now seems hard to trust someone handling the "microwallet" thing for big thing, anything can happen.

Thekool1s

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Activity: 1512

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Change is in your hands

First of all who would do a double spend on small items. Double spending is no easy task, and with normal fees too you get fast conformations. The alternative is that they introduce microwallets like faucets do. People can transfer funds to those and pay them via micro transactions which don't need conformations. Its matter of when this is going to happen, Bitcoin has all the things which the world needs

OmegaStarScream

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Quote from: Thekool1s on August 04, 2015, 01:04:39 AM

I just bought few btc worth around $120, The transaction was instant but conformation took 5 minutes. It depends on how much fees you give too, Like if you are buying a car worth $100 K you can certainly pay $1 or $2 for the fees and then see how quickly you get the conformation too. It is not a problem people should understand this by now if we want to go mainstream Wink

Well I know about that , and I could even pay 10$ for such big amounts when I buy a car or a house or something that is expensive but that's why I'am speaking about little stuff like lunch at McDonald or paying the parking ticket because they are little amount and if u add big fees it's just like you are losing money .

Quote from: Jace on August 04, 2015, 12:51:46 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 03, 2015, 12:31:35 PM

I mean if you want to buy something from McDonald are you supposed to wait 15mn while that's the time of your launch break ?

No, you're not. You're comparing apples and pears.

Quote from: Jace on March 01, 2015, 11:15:51 AM

Maybe this clarifies things:

Transaction time (the time it takes to process a payment)
Bitcoin: 1-2 sec
Credit card: 3-5 sec

Money arrival time (the time at which the merchant actually receives the money and can spend it)
Bitcoin: 1-2 sec
Credit card: several business days

Confirmation time (the time at which the merchant can be sure the payment won't be reversed)
Bitcoin: 10 minutes
Credit card: 6+ months

So, what was the problem with Bitcoin, again?

I'am not supporting Credit cards to be honest and I love bitcoin however CC is reversible indeed but ... there is no double spend like on BTC if it doesn't get verified .
and imagine if the transaction don't get verified at all for a reason or another , it will end up going back to the buyer which will make the seller losing money .

monsanto

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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 03, 2015, 12:31:35 PM

Could this be the reason , It's like 15-20mn to get at least 1 confirmation if I'am correct ?
Anyway the point is that we need some time to get transactions verified , could this actually prevent us from going to mainstream ?

No, IMO other things are preventing bitcoin from going mainstream. It doesn't really solve a big problem in most peoples lives. It wouldn't make life much easier for most American's purchases, and would probably just complicate things and introduce new risks. It has niche uses but for most people's everyday purchases I doubt it will ever go "mainstream."

Thekool1s

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Change is in your hands

I just bought few btc worth around $120, The transaction was instant but conformation took 5 minutes. It depends on how much fees you give too, Like if you are buying a car worth $100 K you can certainly pay $1 or $2 for the fees and then see how quickly you get the conformation too. It is not a problem people should understand this by now if we want to go mainstream Wink

Jace

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 03, 2015, 12:31:35 PM

I mean if you want to buy something from McDonald are you supposed to wait 15mn while that's the time of your launch break ?

No, you're not. You're comparing apples and pears.

Quote from: Jace on March 01, 2015, 11:15:51 AM

Maybe this clarifies things:

Transaction time (the time it takes to process a payment)
Bitcoin: 1-2 sec
Credit card: 3-5 sec

Money arrival time (the time at which the merchant actually receives the money and can spend it)
Bitcoin: 1-2 sec
Credit card: several business days

Confirmation time (the time at which the merchant can be sure the payment won't be reversed)
Bitcoin: 10 minutes
Credit card: 6+ months

So, what was the problem with Bitcoin, again?

culexevilman

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Bitcoin is too valuable to be used as a currency

I agree with above post. Wink

Kazimir

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You are mixing up transaction speed with confirmation speed.

Transaction speed with Bitcoin is instant. A payment takes 1-2 sec, and you're done.

Only if you are dealing with a *huge* amount (like buying a €100K+ car or something) it would make sense to await a confirmation. For regular payments, like a cup of coffee, parking ticket, or diner in your restaurant, they can accept zero-confirmation payments without any significant risk - MUCH lower than when accepting credit cards, for example.

When a customer pays with credit card, a shop owner does not make the customer wait until the transaction becomes irreversible (which is typically 6+ months for most Visa and MasterCards).
Similarly, they should not make a customer wait if they pay with Bitcoin either, even though the confirmation time or 'irreversibility time' is only 10 minutes on average.

If they're scared about double spends, they should use a Bitcoin payment provider. There are plenty, it's free of charge and then they have zero risk.

Andy4.4

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Yes it is a major problem in my opinion.
But confirmation are essential for secure payment.
You can just pay cash at these places.
Bitcoin is currently new as compared to fiat.

ransomer

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Quote from: freeyourmind on August 03, 2015, 07:05:07 PM

Quote from: StevenS on August 03, 2015, 06:04:34 PM

Quote from: ransomer on August 03, 2015, 05:22:51 PM

Because we don't want bitcoin to go mainstream until everyone's grandmothers can easily store their bitcoins.... the current solutions are either unsafe or way too nerdy for mass-adoption.

+1
I was helping someone set up a wallet (Mycelium on Android), and since I insisted, I walked him through creating a backup of the key, written down on paper. I have no idea what happened to this backup, and if I wasn't there, the average person may not have even made one, or lost it somewhere.

People are not used to the importance of protecting money in this way:

If you lose your checkbook, you get the bank to put a hold on it, and issue you a new number, if necessary.
If someone forges a check, the bank will reverse it.
If someone steals your credit card, you get a new one, and you are covered for most fraudulent transactions.
If you have gold coins, you keep them locked in a safe.
When you carry cash, you keep a limited supply, and you keep it close.

Bitcoin has an entirely new security model, which non-geeks are not familiar with. We need a solution for the masses before it's safe to release Bitcoin to ordinary people.

As it becomes more mainstream, I think more businesses will get involved to make the payment process easier, to the point where it's just an NFC tap, similar to paypass on a credit card.

You are msiunderstanding. We are not talking about the payment (although that also needs a bit of innovation), but rather the storing of them. The storing them safely is where bitcoin really needs some innovation.

freeyourmind

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Quote from: StevenS on August 03, 2015, 06:04:34 PM

Quote from: ransomer on August 03, 2015, 05:22:51 PM

Because we don't want bitcoin to go mainstream until everyone's grandmothers can easily store their bitcoins.... the current solutions are either unsafe or way too nerdy for mass-adoption.

+1
I was helping someone set up a wallet (Mycelium on Android), and since I insisted, I walked him through creating a backup of the key, written down on paper. I have no idea what happened to this backup, and if I wasn't there, the average person may not have even made one, or lost it somewhere.

People are not used to the importance of protecting money in this way:

If you lose your checkbook, you get the bank to put a hold on it, and issue you a new number, if necessary.
If someone forges a check, the bank will reverse it.
If someone steals your credit card, you get a new one, and you are covered for most fraudulent transactions.
If you have gold coins, you keep them locked in a safe.
When you carry cash, you keep a limited supply, and you keep it close.

Bitcoin has an entirely new security model, which non-geeks are not familiar with. We need a solution for the masses before it's safe to release Bitcoin to ordinary people.

As it becomes more mainstream, I think more businesses will get involved to make the payment process easier, to the point where it's just an NFC tap, similar to paypass on a credit card.

StevenS

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Activity: 206

Merit: 100

Quote from: ransomer on August 03, 2015, 05:22:51 PM

Because we don't want bitcoin to go mainstream until everyone's grandmothers can easily store their bitcoins.... the current solutions are either unsafe or way too nerdy for mass-adoption.

+1
I was helping someone set up a wallet (Mycelium on Android), and since I insisted, I walked him through creating a backup of the key, written down on paper. I have no idea what happened to this backup, and if I wasn't there, the average person may not have even made one, or lost it somewhere.

People are not used to the importance of protecting money in this way:

If you lose your checkbook, you get the bank to put a hold on it, and issue you a new number, if necessary.
If someone forges a check, the bank will reverse it.
If someone steals your credit card, you get a new one, and you are covered for most fraudulent transactions.
If you have gold coins, you keep them locked in a safe.
When you carry cash, you keep a limited supply, and you keep it close.

Bitcoin has an entirely new security model, which non-geeks are not familiar with. We need a solution for the masses before it's safe to release Bitcoin to ordinary people.

PolarPoint

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Transaction speed and confirmations is a problem for bitcoin but it is not preventing Bitcoin from going mainstream now. We already have instant off chain transfer wallets and payment gateways. Confirmation is not a problem. It is the difficulty of use and legitimacy that is stopping people from using bitcoin.

unamis76

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Another thread confusing everything. Transaction speed is one thing, confirmations are another. Transactions are instant: how can it be better than that? Confirmation do take time. Security takes time. So no, I don't think transaction speed is preventing anything

Way more secure accepting 0 confirmation transactions than Visa ones, in my opinion.

neurotypical

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Not really, what prevent us going mainstream is simply that people is unaware of Bitcoin. It's actually good that there isn't a sudden spike of newbies using Bitcoin, im not sure if we are ready to sustain x10 the transaction amount now but thats not the main case, the thing is most people are completely unaware on BTC yet.

ransomer

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No it doesn't. And if it does - it is a good thing.

Because we don't want bitcoin to go mainstream until everyone's grandmothers can easily store their bitcoins.... the current solutions are either unsafe or way too nerdy for mass-adoption.

If we have mass adoption before it is safe - he will have so many horror stories of hacking etc that bitcoin will get a horrible name, and might die as a result.

Topic: Transactions speed prevent us from going to Mainstream ? - page 4. (Read 3986 times)