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Topic: Trezor Safe 3 New Hardware Wallet - page 4. (Read 1793 times)

lyw123

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Quote from: apogio on October 18, 2023, 01:17:06 AM

Quote from: lyw123 on October 16, 2023, 08:23:37 PM

Other open-source hardware wallets (altcoin wallet, not bitcoin only) have few users and less attention, making them less secure.

Having less attention doesn't necessarily make you less secure. In fact it may be the exact opposite.

You may be right. I found user reviews of different wallets on the bitbox website. see https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/#compare and https://www.trustpilot.com/review/bitbox.swiss
I compared several kinds of wallets and recorded the theft situation myself, as follows:

Trezor, User score: 3.5, Number of reviews: 405, Number of stolen users: 12, Some details: Robert in AU, 160,000$ stolen; Curtis in US, 100,000$ stolen; Donald in US, 60,000$ stolen; Voodoo in AU, 0.4BTC stolen.
Ledger, User score: 2.8, Number of reviews: 1559, Number of stolen users: 12, Some details: Di in IT, 1 eth stolen; Ale in AU, 0.33BTC stolen.
Keepkey, User score: 2.4, Number of reviews: 290, Number of stolen users: 1, Some details: Gennady, 5000$ stolen.
BitBox, User score: 4.9, Number of reviews: 547, Number of stolen users: None
Keystone, User score: 4.2, Number of reviews: 47, Number of stolen users: None
Onekey, User score: 3.5, Number of reviews: 56, Number of stolen users: None

The theft of the Trezor hardware wallet is the most serious. Is it possible that there is a bad man inside the Trezor company who left a backdoor in the manufacturing process of a small number of wallets? And the genuine firmware of Trezor and Trezor Suite did not recognize it?

Pmalek

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 15, 2023, 11:15:35 AM

I thought that in the current models (the Trezor 1 and the Trezor Model T), whether it is bitcoin ONLY or multi-coin is a kind of a software setup. So when you initially set up the device, you can choose whether to set up for bitcoin only or for multi-coin.. and if you want to change back to the other, then you have to erase the device and start over.

Or maybe I am wrong.. in the older devices it is firm ware, but the firmware can still be changed back and forth, no?

That's exactly how it is with the older versions. During the onboarding stage, you need to pick between the Bitcoin-only and multi-coin firmware. And you can, of course, reset the device at anytime and install the other firmware.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 15, 2023, 11:15:35 AM

So now, in the newer version, there is a kind of difference in the hardware that the consumer has to choose which one and cannot elect how to set it up after receiving it?

I don't think there is any difference hardware-wise. The difference is in the design of the case. Trezor released two different cases. The universal model is black, front and back. The limited Bitcoin-only version (that is already sold out) comes with an orange back cover and inscription saying 21 million or something like that. But I think both of them support both types of firmware.

apogio

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Quote from: lyw123 on October 16, 2023, 08:23:37 PM

Other open-source hardware wallets (altcoin wallet, not bitcoin only) have few users and less attention, making them less secure.

Having less attention doesn't necessarily make you less secure. In fact it may be the exact opposite.

Quote from: lyw123 on October 16, 2023, 08:23:37 PM

1) I need a secure wallet to store altcoins, and I believe Trezor should be the best choice. It is the most famous among open-source wallets and has the least possibility of having a backdoor. Even for Trezor, the number of users is only slightly over a million (1M+, according to the official website).

Some years ago (before going Bitcoin-only) I bought a Trezor One and I used it for some altcoins. I was good. I haven't been informed though lately, because since 2020 I am bitcoin-only, so I don't use this wallet (or any other altcoin wallet).

JayJuanGee

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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: ?? on ??

The Trezor Safe 3 hardware wallet is generating a lot of buzz. The hardware wallet manufacturer company claims that they have used more advanced technology in their hardware wallets due to which the Trezor Safe 3 hardware wallet has advanced features compared to other hardware wallets. In the teaser they released on Twitter, many people expressed positive comments about this hardware wallet. Apart from releasing this hardware wallet with great features, this company has also focused on the price of this hardware wallet. It will probably cost around 70 Euro to 80 Euro to purchase this hardware wallet. As modern features are added, users expect to get maximum performance from this hardware wallet. The amount of discussion that this Trezor Safe 3 has created before coming to the market will undoubtedly increase its demand after it comes to the market.

This generically sounding paragraph comes off as something a bot would write.

#just saying.

lyw123

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Quote from: witcher_sense on October 17, 2023, 01:32:53 AM

Quote from: lyw123 on October 16, 2023, 08:23:37 PM

Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

Your question is not very clear, I hope you don't mean that hardware wallets are usually being shipped with some "default" seed phrases and passphrases.

Not that mean.

Quote from: satscraper on October 17, 2023, 02:22:18 AM

Quote from: lyw123 on October 16, 2023, 08:23:37 PM

Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

I would advocate generating new seed phrases and a passphrase for your newly acquired device before transferring your funds from the old wallet. Otherwise, why invest in the new model? You should expect that the level of randomness generated by the new model is superior to that of the old Trezor. Consequently, the new seed generated by the new model is preferable.

Thank your suggestion.

satscraper

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Quote from: lyw123 on October 16, 2023, 08:23:37 PM

Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

witcher_sense

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🔐BitcoinMessage.Tools🔑

Quote from: lyw123 on October 16, 2023, 08:23:37 PM

Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

Your question is not very clear, I hope you don't mean that hardware wallets are usually being shipped with some "default" seed phrases and passphrases. If you notice something like that, you should immediately withdraw your coins to a wallet you already have, break a bought hardware wallet with a hammer, and then throw away this malicious hardware wallet. If you buy a hardware wallet from an official store or retailer, the chances of getting a malicious wallet are slim, but you still should be very careful. Should you import your existing seed phrase into a brand-new wallet? It depends. If you feel your previous secrets haven't been compromised, then it would be the fastest way to transfer coins between different wallets. Otherwise, you will have a hard time sending coins address by address to preserve the privacy of your transactions.

lyw123

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Sorry to bother you again!
The new Trezor wallet has arrived, and I have some confusion:
1) I need a secure wallet to store altcoins, and I believe Trezor should be the best choice. It is the most famous among open-source wallets and has the least possibility of having a backdoor. Even for Trezor, the number of users is only slightly over a million (1M+, according to the official website). Other open-source hardware wallets (altcoin wallet, not bitcoin only) have few users and less attention, making them less secure.
2) I previously bought 4 trezor one, intending to use for many years. However, hardware wallet companies release product quickly. Should I only buy one of each generation of products? The passphrase for Trezor One is entered via the computer, while Trezor safe 3 has an input on the hardware wallet itself. I want to buy a Trezor safe 3 from the Trezor Amazon store since buying directly from the official website incurs high shipping costs. Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

dkbit98

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Quote from: JL0 on October 13, 2023, 09:42:02 AM

Its different because BitBox02 and Trezor Safe 3 both storing the seed on the MCU and not on the SE. Passport and Coldcard store the seed on the SE. If I'm wrong please correct me.

Secure elements are usually very simple dumb chips with only one or two functions, but not all secure elements are equal.
I think that Passport, Coldcard, Bitbox, Onekey, Keystone3 and maybe few more hardware wallets, all use the same (or similar) secure element now.

Quote from: Coin-Keeper on October 16, 2023, 02:33:23 PM

I still scratch a "tin foil hat tingling" at the thought of a secure element lacking full open source observation. Sure the software is going to remain open source, but a bad actor using a proprietary secure element has options "behind the curtain". [popcorn]

Optiga Trust M secure element IS open source with MIT license, and it is used for many other devices, not just for Trezor hardware wallet.

Coin-Keeper

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I have been using bitcoin only software on my Trezors for years now. It works fine without adding attack vectors that other coin software may add ----- > since I am not storing those on my hardware wallets.

I still scratch a "tin foil hat tingling" at the thought of a secure element lacking full open source observation. Sure the software is going to remain open source, but a bad actor using a proprietary secure element has options "behind the curtain". [popcorn]

tenant48

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 15, 2023, 11:15:35 AM

Quote from: apogio on October 14, 2023, 09:57:08 AM

The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

Previously, Trezor released 4 firmwares for its wallets: 2 for Trezor one and 2 for Trezor T. Firmware only for Bitcoin and firmware for all other coins can be reinstalled at will.
The process for installing Bitcoin-only firmware is different from installing regular firmware. You must first download the firmware only for Bitcoin to your computer, here are the installation instructions:
https://blog.trezor.io/sources-say-orange-coin-good-new-bitcoin-only-firmware-now-available-47be0b611a4d

I think that with Trezor safe 3 (the usual model for all coins) everything will be similar and it will be possible to install both versions. And the Trezor safe 3 bitcoin only version model will have the ability to install firmware only for Bitcoin.

JayJuanGee

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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: apogio on October 14, 2023, 09:57:08 AM

The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

Rikafip

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Quote from: apogio on October 14, 2023, 09:57:08 AM

The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

Or maybe they wouldn't sell so many so fast if it wasn't a limited edition. Wink

Pmalek

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Quote from: JL0 on October 06, 2023, 03:07:36 PM

I am guessing that once the new chip is ready, they will start installing it into new versions of one or both of those two wallets you just mentioned. The Trezor Safe 3 already has a secure element by a different company. I don't know how challenging it would be to change the design and incorporate this new chip into it. Maybe they will even delay the release of the second new hardware wallet just enough to finish their new SE and build it into the new model. I really don't think we will also see a 3rd hardware wallet by Trezor in the space of just a few years that will use this upcoming chip.

Quote from: SFR10 on October 12, 2023, 04:02:36 PM

Even though it supports Monero and a few other cryptocurrencies that were missing on the Model One, for some reason it doesn't support some of them that were available on the older model ^{[a bit weird]}: Dropped list

Luckily for those who will buy this device for altcoins, the list isn't that long and doesn't contain many "big" names. EOS and Dash are relatively popular, but with the former being completely silent for years and the latter having a flawed privacy feature.

Quote from: zherbert on October 12, 2023, 04:56:23 PM

Not to rain on everyone's open source parade, but all the TropicSquare chip will be is a partially open source secure element, with elements of the chip still black-box due to closed source foundry PDKs with foundry NDAs.

I have been saying that since I read their early announcement about their upcoming SE that was posted here in Czech. They said that open-sourcing everything is too big of a security risk, so they will try to make it as open-source as possible.

Quote from: apogio on October 14, 2023, 09:57:08 AM

The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

It's still not late to change their mind. If the users love it, get a second batch going.

apogio

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The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: JL0 on October 13, 2023, 09:42:02 AM

Its different because BitBox02 and Trezor Safe 3 both storing the seed on the MCU and not on the SE. Passport and Coldcard store the seed on the SE. If I'm wrong please correct me.

Ahh right, misunderstood you before - figured you were talking about the SE at a higher level, such as the difference between these devices and Ledger.

You are correct. BitBox02 and Trezor Safe 3 both say the encrypted seed is stored on the MCU, with part of the decryption key stored on the SE. Passport and Coldcard store the encrypted seed on the SE itself, on the other hand.

Rikafip

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 12, 2023, 11:08:06 AM

Than I would say Foundation Passport is probably better Bitcoin only option for hardware wallet, but you will have to wait for delivery from US, customs and you will have to give your personal information online.
I am more for something that can be purchased locally for cash without records of me doing it, especially if it's connected with bitcoin.

Same here, no more fucking around with ordering hardware wallets online. When I bought my first wallet back in 2017, I thought its the safest to order it directly from manufacturer (Ledger), just to have my some of my info leaked and my email spammed with crap so next wallet will be strictly bought with cash in a physical store.

JL0

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on October 13, 2023, 09:33:23 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on October 12, 2023, 11:04:18 AM

Do you have any link with more information about this staying the same like in model One?

Already edited my post above - looks like it will support entry on the hardware wallet. But even Trezor T still allows users to enter the passphrase on the computer instead. They really need to remove this option altogether, but they can't while people still use the Trezor One I guess (which will be the case for many years yet).

Quote from: JL0 on October 13, 2023, 09:23:59 AM

Similar to the BitBox right?

And Passport and Coldcard. But completely different to Ledger, who to my understanding run BOLOS on the secure element itself.

Its different because BitBox02 and Trezor Safe 3 both storing the seed on the MCU and not on the SE. Passport and Coldcard store the seed on the SE. If I'm wrong please correct me.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 12, 2023, 11:04:18 AM

Do you have any link with more information about this staying the same like in model One?

Quote from: JL0 on October 13, 2023, 09:23:59 AM

Similar to the BitBox right?

And Passport and Coldcard. But completely different to Ledger, who run BOLOS and associated applications on the secure element itself.

JL0

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Bitcoin the Digital Gold

Similar to the BitBox right?

Quote

We do not run code on the chip itself. The Secure Element simply stores a secret that can be used to decrypt the recovery seed, i.e., it never actually knows what your recovery seed is.
The Secure Element in the TS3 protects your PIN (without learning it), which releases a secret (stored on the Secure Element), which in turn protects your recovery seed (stored only on the Trezor Safe 3 general purpose chip, encrypted by both the device PIN and the secret stored on the Secure Element)

https://trezor.io/learn/a/secure-element-in-trezor-safe-3