Topic: Trump ≈ Biden: They fundamentally agree on *all* of the important issues! (Read 424 times)
November 20, 2020, 06:09:44 AM
There might be a large number of similarities between these two guys but we shouldn't forget that one is a republican and the other one a democrats. For example climate change is big issue for Democrats. It is very likely that Biden is joining again the Paris agreement. A second big difference between the two is about trade in my opinion. Biden and the Democrats are not as protective as Trump. For example the free trade agreement with the EU was no priority for Trump. But Biden is likely to push that topic again. Obama before him was heavily invested in TTIP agreement. I would bet Biden is going to pick up the pieces and renew the talks.
November 20, 2020, 05:39:24 AM
Trump ≈ Biden: They fundamentally agree on *all* of the important issues!
The coke/pepsi analogy is appropriate. The issue of course is that 'capitalist democracy' is an oxymoron. Those with money run the show, and always have. In an election, you are never voting to remove the reins of power from the elite, you are instead voting for a figurehead, a public face, that's all. Nothing changes behind the scenes.They differ very little in degree, and not at all in kind.
The difference is that Trump is vastly more confrontational. He creates and establishes support though the classic Orwellian 'us and them' approach. Just as capitalism is a process rather than an end-state, so is this opposition-building. It can't continue indefinitely; eventually it reaches breaking-point. Biden's "I'm not Trump!" candidacy can be viewed as the establishment attempting to return to the pre-Trumpian status quo. 'Us and them' is tried and tested, but the idea is for it to be carefully targeted outwards, not turned on the establishment itself. Trump is a destabilising influence, a threat... he's more than an obnoxious front-end (yes, that is a phallic metaphor).The masses vote for tyranny, because it is what they want.
The masses vote for tyranny because it is what they are taught to want. Democracy is viewed by many as simply a right, when it should also be viewed as a responsibility. Is true democracy possible or even desirable, if opinions can be corrupted and managed so easily?Democracy is a SCAM, and voting is the trap that keeps you under the control of the system.
I don't know if it's a scam. That implies subterfuge. People in 'democracies' are complicit, or are conditioned to be complicit. The manipulation of opinions is often quite overt and transparent. You say that people want tyranny, but is that because they have been taught to want it? What is the alternative? I've been looking for years, but have found nothing. Anarchism is utopian and only works with ideal people... but if people were like that, then democracy would work. Communism doesn't work for the same reason, it's far too easy to corrupt.Also sprach
Übermensch needs the herd as a backdrop. How to liberate the herd? "We are all individuals" can't work. What's left? Eternal return?
November 17, 2020, 09:20:02 PM
My anti-democracy message is generally applicable. I focused it on the American election, only because this is an American-based forum where “Love Trump”/“Hate Trump” talk is all the rage!
Yes. Yes, it is—or rather, it is the beginning thereof.
What would disillusioned non-voters do, if they lost the faith of democratic votaries? Surely, not nothing!
Don’t make me bring out that hamster-wheel GIF again, or launch into another speech about
Tell me, why do you suppose that the mass-media wail and gnash their teeth whenever voter turnout rates drop? Do you believe that they care about your freedom?
Democracy is a SCAM, and voting is the trap that keeps you under the control of the system.
The masses vote for tyranny, because it is what they want. You cannot reason with them. If you cherish freedom, then your table of values differs fundamentally from that of the masses whose votes will always outnumber yours.
Against that, what can freethinking individuals do?
Reductio ad absurdum, if millions of people were to vote for mandatory coprophagy, then would you comply? —More importantly, would you consider it a matter of conscience to obey their laws?
Freedom begins in the mind.
P.S., if you are German, then don’t vote—democracy is a SCAM, and all of the parties are bad. But if you do vote, then vote for AfD! :-)
Not voting is not the fix.
Yes. Yes, it is—or rather, it is the beginning thereof.
What would disillusioned non-voters do, if they lost the faith of democratic votaries? Surely, not nothing!
Don’t make me bring out that hamster-wheel GIF again, or launch into another speech about
the consent of the governed upon which the power of all régimes must ultimately repose.
...which is a phrase that I first used in reply to you in WO, philip:The illusion was being lost—and with it, the consent of the governed upon which the power of all régimes must ultimately repose. Thus stepped onstage Trump, a professional showman, to stir the pot just enough to get the enthusiasms flowing both for and against him.
Tell me, why do you suppose that the mass-media wail and gnash their teeth whenever voter turnout rates drop? Do you believe that they care about your freedom?
Democracy is a SCAM, and voting is the trap that keeps you under the control of the system.
The masses vote for tyranny, because it is what they want. You cannot reason with them. If you cherish freedom, then your table of values differs fundamentally from that of the masses whose votes will always outnumber yours.
Are so many millions of people, in so many democratic countries around the world, all voting for leaders and policies which they actually don’t want? Really? Or do you simply disagree with what they want, and project your own desires onto them through your unexamined assumption that they must be just like you?
Against that, what can freethinking individuals do?
Free yourself first from the moral authority of the mob. You owe nothing to mass opinion; therefore, the laws which rise on mass opinion have no proper authority over you. You do not consent to be governed by the votes of millions of anthropoid livestock who want to be bound in chains—who eagerly embrace those chains just as long as they remain warm, fed, and adequately entertained. You are a law unto yourself.
Wherefore “anarchy” as to the masses and their so-called “governments”, which are in truth no more than the largest, most well-armed organized criminal gangs. Don’t reject authority: Be your own authority.
Wherefore “anarchy” as to the masses and their so-called “governments”, which are in truth no more than the largest, most well-armed organized criminal gangs. Don’t reject authority: Be your own authority.
Reductio ad absurdum, if millions of people were to vote for mandatory coprophagy, then would you comply? —More importantly, would you consider it a matter of conscience to obey their laws?
Freedom begins in the mind.
October 28, 2020, 11:14:01 PM
Not voting is not the fix.
Most likely USA simply becomes a strongman government with the president doing pretty much as he or she pleases.
Not a lot of hope for US as it is setup to crush 98% of the people.
0.5%. are rich
1.5% are cops 👮 or military enforcers that do physical crushing.
98%. are sheep 🐑
Most likely USA simply becomes a strongman government with the president doing pretty much as he or she pleases.
Not a lot of hope for US as it is setup to crush 98% of the people.
0.5%. are rich
1.5% are cops 👮 or military enforcers that do physical crushing.
98%. are sheep 🐑
Most likely that becomes the case? That is literally the case right now. The President of the United States is literally just a King with the amount of power they yield with the administrative state. They can use EO's all day to flex their power and just stop enforcing pretty much everything that Congress does / tries to do.
But yes, there is pretty much no hope as the two party system loves giving the President more power as they get to control it every so often. Taking turns and running the nation is pretty cool, LOL.
October 28, 2020, 07:47:30 PM
Not voting is not the fix.
Most likely USA simply becomes a strongman government with the president doing pretty much as he or she pleases.
Not a lot of hope for US as it is setup to crush 98% of the people.
0.5%. are rich
1.5% are cops 👮 or military enforcers that do physical crushing.
98%. are sheep 🐑
Most likely USA simply becomes a strongman government with the president doing pretty much as he or she pleases.
Not a lot of hope for US as it is setup to crush 98% of the people.
0.5%. are rich
1.5% are cops 👮 or military enforcers that do physical crushing.
98%. are sheep 🐑
October 28, 2020, 07:29:54 PM
Plutocracy 
Indeed; moreover (boldface is in the original, highlighting added):
I am baffled at how people who understand basic economic principles can fail to grasp the most fundamental, unavoidable flaw of mass democracy.
Universal suffrage is vote inflation. Making everybody “free” by giving everybody a vote is like making everybody “rich” by printing lots of money.
Yes, that is an original observation on my part. Analogy credit: nullius.
Whereas the institutions of democracy—the government branches, the political parties, the mass media—all together have the rôle of the big banks in the debt-backed fractional reserve monetary system.
Democracy is a scam.
[...]
This is why I say: Don’t vote. By voting, you grant your moral and practical political endorsements to a corrupt system: An ochlocracy manipulated by a plutocracy. The result is kakocracy: Rule of the worst.
Universal suffrage is vote inflation. Making everybody “free” by giving everybody a vote is like making everybody “rich” by printing lots of money.
Yes, that is an original observation on my part. Analogy credit: nullius.
Whereas the institutions of democracy—the government branches, the political parties, the mass media—all together have the rôle of the big banks in the debt-backed fractional reserve monetary system.
Democracy is a scam.
[...]
This is why I say: Don’t vote. By voting, you grant your moral and practical political endorsements to a corrupt system: An ochlocracy manipulated by a plutocracy. The result is kakocracy: Rule of the worst.
A new favourite.
If my wife did not have lung damage from covid-19 contracted Jan 2020 and if I did not have life long asthma [...]
My condolences.
I voted
but living in New Jersey [...]
My condolences!
Yup. Both parties are literally the same. [...]
We're all fucked. Uniparty [...]
We're all fucked. Uniparty [...]
I think that fairly sums up what I strove to express in a big cartoon, and an even bigger reply post.
A trusted source reviewed the OP cartoon weeks before I posted it. Evaluation was terse: “Sheep won’t get it.”
Keep voting! Because! —Coke v. Pepsi just got more exciting:
Quote from: 2020 United States Presidential Ballot (translated from pretenses, to the political reality of voters’ thought processes)
How do you feel about Trump?
- ☐ I LOVE TRUMP!!! 🤩
- ☐ I HATE TRUMP!!! 😡
October 28, 2020, 03:06:08 PM
Especially after watching both conventions, I really got the sense that both parties are at their core fascist parties, with only relatively minor differences between them. For both of them, their central tenants are nationalism, collectivism, authoritarianism, and maintaining the American empire. In the Democratic convention, "UNITY!!!" was the resounding message, while in the Republican convention, "LAW & ORDER!!!" was what they chose to most focus on.
After the election, there will probably be quite a bit of violence, which is really sad and pathetic. For almost everyone, 99.9% of life will be the same under Trump or Biden, but yet probably at least a quarter of Americans are going to feel a certain sense of hopelessness and/or fear after their candidate loses the election. According to an August Pew poll, only 16% of voters say that "things will be pretty much the same regardless of who is elected," even though this is in fact the reality. I feel bad for all of the people who have tied themselves up personally with this election, as if Trump or Biden actually cared about them, or as if their election will actually matter much to the voters personally.
That said, the election result won't be unimportant. The executive branch has been ceded more and more power by Congress over the decades, so a president can do quite a bit. A president could for example wield the administrative state in such a way as to make it very difficult to use Bitcoin without existing in the shadows, and a Biden administration is probably more likely to move in this direction than a Trump administration. I'd also prefer to see a Trump win because it's likely to lead the coastal states to think much more seriously about secession, which would be one path toward ending the Federal Reserve as we know it. (I think that political action of any sort almost never has positive expected value, though, including in this election.)
After the election, there will probably be quite a bit of violence, which is really sad and pathetic. For almost everyone, 99.9% of life will be the same under Trump or Biden, but yet probably at least a quarter of Americans are going to feel a certain sense of hopelessness and/or fear after their candidate loses the election. According to an August Pew poll, only 16% of voters say that "things will be pretty much the same regardless of who is elected," even though this is in fact the reality. I feel bad for all of the people who have tied themselves up personally with this election, as if Trump or Biden actually cared about them, or as if their election will actually matter much to the voters personally.
That said, the election result won't be unimportant. The executive branch has been ceded more and more power by Congress over the decades, so a president can do quite a bit. A president could for example wield the administrative state in such a way as to make it very difficult to use Bitcoin without existing in the shadows, and a Biden administration is probably more likely to move in this direction than a Trump administration. I'd also prefer to see a Trump win because it's likely to lead the coastal states to think much more seriously about secession, which would be one path toward ending the Federal Reserve as we know it. (I think that political action of any sort almost never has positive expected value, though, including in this election.)
Yup. Both parties are literally the same. They all are here to ensure that the richest in their little high society is happy. Dems make a large stink about abortion, immigration, etc. Republicans make an issue out of Guns, Immigration, and so on.
At the end of the day the uni party is still together in ensuring that :
1) No third party is every able to rise up and take power from the ruling two.
2) Rich people get to stay at the top of our society.
We're all fucked. Uniparty LOVES the executive branch too as people don't really understand that the President is getting stronger and stronger as Congress kicks over more power to them / doesn't actively fight for their power back.
October 28, 2020, 12:20:34 PM
You think something as radical as abolishing the federal reserve is realistic?
It’s not going to happen..
The best we can hope for is preserving the constitution, stop more infringements in the constitution, mostly through SCOTUS appointments, and otherwise hope that that government does, as theymos says, nothing..
It is getting worse and more Orwellian under either the Dems or GOP but I believe the destruction of America’s founding principles will be slower and lesser under Trump than Biden..
Also, Trump had done an amazing job of redpilling normies the world over.. Many topics are brought to light because of him that otherwise would have never crossed the attention of most average people..
It’s not going to happen..
The best we can hope for is preserving the constitution, stop more infringements in the constitution, mostly through SCOTUS appointments, and otherwise hope that that government does, as theymos says, nothing..
It is getting worse and more Orwellian under either the Dems or GOP but I believe the destruction of America’s founding principles will be slower and lesser under Trump than Biden..
Also, Trump had done an amazing job of redpilling normies the world over.. Many topics are brought to light because of him that otherwise would have never crossed the attention of most average people..
This is a nice post. We disagree on which criminal to pick, but we both think they both suck.
If my wife did not have lung damage from covid-19 contracted Jan 2020 and if I did not have life long asthma I might like Trump over Biden.
But That is not the case.
As to the idea that Trump = Biden or Biden = Trump
the who has a song “ meet the new boss same as the old boss “
sums it up nicely.
I find my self in fundamental disagreement with three or four right wing ideas
I find my self agreeing with three or four right wing ideas.
I find my self in fundamental disagreement with three or four left wing ideas
I find my self agreeing with three or four left wing ideas.
So both the far left and far right don’t like me. As I don’t march in step with them like a puppet.
I voted but living in New Jersey my president vote means nothing due to electoral college.
ie biden is a lock to win nj so votes go to him.
October 28, 2020, 11:56:37 AM
Plutocracy
October 25, 2020, 08:45:18 PM
Edit 2020-11-02: Added anchor tag. No substantive changes.
You have an interesting perspective, theymos. You seem to see the bipolar-uniparty dog and pony show as just that; yet here and elsewhere, you nonetheless seem to ascribe some significance to the election other than a sophisticated propaganda device (or perhaps meta-propaganda device). The underlying point of OP is that I think that voting is not useless: It is counterproductive.
Following is some food for thought; I will somewhat elaborate on my position in reply to you and to eddie, respectively.
Although I know that that’s a popular idea, especially amongst contemporary libertarians, I do infer a dig at my placement of the Communist red star with hammer and sickle, and the Antifa (Antifascist Action) logo, together with the logos of the big banks, the stock markets, and the Federal Reserve.
My choice was deliberate. My Wall Observer post about the Antifa logo was made when I had just completed the OP cartoon here. I began to write an explanation, which I may fit into one of the reserved posts above if I ever actually finish it. (That’s questionable; it would require terrific time and energy to make a brief conspectus of historical and political issues too complex to address adequately in the format of forum posts. But I didn’t reserve so many posts without reason!)
The idea that Capitalism and Communism work together is not new—and alas, I must admit, it is far from original to me. (Yes, by the way, I have read all of Ayn Rand’s works; I think that in this context, I should probably mention that. Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal is the other side of the coin of, “True Communism has never been tried.”)
To correct the caption: Andrew Carnegie is also in the cartoon. He is the one labelled, “Andy”. By the way, what with this being the Internet, I think that I should probably point out that the only ethnic Jew in that cartoon is Karl Marx. Morgan, Carnegie, Ryan, Perkins, Theodore Roosevelt, and (despite some claims, I think) Rockefeller were all non-Jews. I think that the Warburg brothers and Jacob Schiff should have been depicted, but they still would have been outnumbered by the utterly corrupt Gentile plutocrats. #justsaying
An old political cartoon alone is not much of an argument, and is not hereby presented as one. Rather, it simply goes to show that in your own country, in 1911, astute political observers were already accusing the big banksters of bringing Communism to America. N.b. that whoever drew this, did so two years before the big banksters created the Federal Reserve system with the help of their boy Woodrow Wilson and a pliant Congress.
h/t Last of the V8s. I don’t know if V8s agrees with me or not. I asked if anybody had the cartoon, which I saw somewhere years ago. He happened to have it, with appropriate sourcing in the same graphic.
For both of them, their central tenets are to get elected by telling their popular fan bases what they want to hear. It’s just advertising: Some people like Coke’s ads better; some people, Pepsi’s ads. Either way, you are getting some awful swill that I would never drink.
After the election, it is business as usual. Trump has done nothing of real, long-term significance about the single most important principal issue for most of his base: Immigration. (And he can’t: Demographically, in the long term, America’s destiny to be a white-minority country is already an accomplished fact. His promises are just salesmanship.) Obama was such a bad warmonger that he was justifiably accused by a disgruntled faction of his own supporters of being Dubya Bush’s third term. Etc...
It all depends when your government finds it convenient to roll some tanks (eh, “APCs” or whatever) and kill some Americans. From their track record, they excel at that.
If the rabbles now run riot, it is only because TPTB so permit.
Support for what are fundamentally Antifa riots—which so happen to exploit peculiarity American racial tensions via BLM. Now, do you begin to get why I put the Antifa logo into OP together with JPMorgan Chase’s logo?
Mt. Kisco, New York, 5 June 2020
Image source: CNBC reporter
The violence will be quelled by means of bigger violence, whenever Mr Dimon, et al. decide to stop playing submissive. LOL.
Well-stated. But this is a feature, not a bug. As I argued in my “Voting Votaries” post briefly referenced below, and as I allude in my OP cartoon here, the “polarization” keeps the voting masses engaged. It thus maintains the “consent of the governed” without which the American régime would eventually collapse just like the Soviet Union.
Concentration of power in the executive branch has been a very bad idea for you folks. In addition to the issues that you describe, it results in everything from rule by emergency order, to the proliferation of an entrenched bureaucracy (all execuctive-branch stuff!) ruling with “administrative law” tyranny. I think that most American consider the U.S. Code to be “Federal law”; well, what about that other conjoined-twin body of Federal law, the C.F.R.? (To say nothing of the thicket of Federal case law...)
Anyway, if presidential precedent has already been set for seizure of your gold by E.O. before asking Congress, I think it’s safe to say that any which way, you exist at the mercy of whoever holds the reins of power in “your” government.
I see a lot of value in "maintaining the American empire".. Do you not?
For my part, I don’t!
America is not the world-police!
America is the tyrant of the world.
America’s spreading of the Orwellian American idea of “freedom” is NOT WELCOME.
To be “liberated” by Americans is to be enslaved by them, if not killed outright.
Of course, I do not mean that all individual Americans approve of all the work of bombing countries into “liberation” under the imposition of American-approved régimes, to “make the world safe for democracy”. In fact, I am sure that many individuals disapprove. That may be unfortunate.
DOWN WITH THE AMERICAN EMPIRE!
If only Bruno’s witty “conspiracy theory” were correct. :-(
What’s the probability? (...that “WANTED” poster did say “politically incorrect”, did it not?)
That is like suggesting that a patient with advanced metastatic cancer should avoid the removal of his biggest tumour, because he suffers other big tumours that may grow. The world is collapsing. I say this not from some eschatological fantasy, but from an historical perspective that is purely rational, and rejects all mysticism and quasi-mysticism (except for my beliefs in the god of Bitcoin, and the apotheosis of the Catbat goddess! ;-)
Moreover, Red China is currently the most Capitalist country in the world: It is ruled from the stock exchanges by giant multinational corporations running factories that are small cities packed with wage slaves. (Ultra-left Silicon Valley liberals have got to get their hipster tech devices somehow!)
America is the most Communist country in the world, as well as the biggest spreader of Communism for the past century. I don’t want to launch into a long essay about that now; so...
Just for instance, look up what happened to Ngô Đình Diệm for an exemplary illustration of America’s long and sordid history of creating problems, and then pretending to fight them. The CIA set Vietnam up for a total Communist takeover with Diệm’s unfortunate demise—and then, of course, the valiant American world-police had to make war on Communism in Vietnam! A war that was deliberately set up, and deliberately set up to be unwinnable.
Just for instance.
“WAR IS PEACE”, indeed.
Learn a lesson from Diệm—or from Saddam Hussein and from the Kurds in Iraq who rebelled against Saddam in ’91—or any other of numerous examples of people who met their demises through American treachery:
Never trust the Americans.
My point was that voting is not merely pointless, but counterproductive, if abolishing the Federal Reserve with the vote is unrealistic—as indeed it is.
Politics is the art of the possible. Wasting your energy on elections stops you from doing what is possible. Improving your plight by voting is categorically unrealistic.
Quoting myself from your 2020 election thread with suchmoon—sorry, I have not been following it:
“Preserve the Constitution!” was a good rallying cry for American Conservatives about... let’s see... arguably the 1950s or 60s. More reasonably, the 1930s. (Insert also a reply to Twitchy in the other thread about Roosevelt’s court-packing scheme.) Maybe earlier.
(By the way, it’s funny that my long-time hatred for America has driven me to learn more about American political history than most Americans know. As when I study Communism per se, I study the etiology of the disease.)
Your hope is to preserve the horses by locking the barn door now. Horses gone. Too late.
Agreed! But that is unrealistic.
Let’s put it this way: Americans nowadays don’t much remember the debates for the passage of their Federal Income Tax—a big deal, back then, when people gave a hoot about the Constitution; it required action by Congress plus state governments to ratify a Constitutional amendment. Well, a common theme for proponents was to argue that tax rates could never exceed 5%—because no government could ever spend so much money. Well, nowadays, your government bills you for—how much, in taxes? It wouldn’t want to do nothing with that! Money needs to be spent. At least, that is the way that modern governments work. Your massive entrenched bureaucracies must find some way to spend their budgets, lest the budgets be cut. And politicians need to make a big show of “Do Something!” to get elected, or re-elected, as the case may be.
Agreed.
The difference is negligible.
I think that it’s the reverse: Trump only even ran for political office, because people were already starting to talk about things that they hadn’t even dared to whisper about for decades. As a savvy businessman (and a savvier showman), he seized the opportunity to tell people what they want to hear—what they are desperate to hear! Don’t suppose that the tail wags the dog.
2021-03-14: Edited to add anchor.
You have an interesting perspective, theymos. You seem to see the bipolar-uniparty dog and pony show as just that; yet here and elsewhere, you nonetheless seem to ascribe some significance to the election other than a sophisticated propaganda device (or perhaps meta-propaganda device). The underlying point of OP is that I think that voting is not useless: It is counterproductive.
Following is some food for thought; I will somewhat elaborate on my position in reply to you and to eddie, respectively.
Especially after watching both conventions, I really got the sense that both parties are at their core fascist parties, with only relatively minor differences between them.
Although I know that that’s a popular idea, especially amongst contemporary libertarians, I do infer a dig at my placement of the Communist red star with hammer and sickle, and the Antifa (Antifascist Action) logo, together with the logos of the big banks, the stock markets, and the Federal Reserve.
My choice was deliberate. My Wall Observer post about the Antifa logo was made when I had just completed the OP cartoon here. I began to write an explanation, which I may fit into one of the reserved posts above if I ever actually finish it. (That’s questionable; it would require terrific time and energy to make a brief conspectus of historical and political issues too complex to address adequately in the format of forum posts. But I didn’t reserve so many posts without reason!)
The idea that Capitalism and Communism work together is not new—and alas, I must admit, it is far from original to me. (Yes, by the way, I have read all of Ayn Rand’s works; I think that in this context, I should probably mention that. Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal is the other side of the coin of, “True Communism has never been tried.”)
To correct the caption: Andrew Carnegie is also in the cartoon. He is the one labelled, “Andy”. By the way, what with this being the Internet, I think that I should probably point out that the only ethnic Jew in that cartoon is Karl Marx. Morgan, Carnegie, Ryan, Perkins, Theodore Roosevelt, and (despite some claims, I think) Rockefeller were all non-Jews. I think that the Warburg brothers and Jacob Schiff should have been depicted, but they still would have been outnumbered by the utterly corrupt Gentile plutocrats. #justsaying
An old political cartoon alone is not much of an argument, and is not hereby presented as one. Rather, it simply goes to show that in your own country, in 1911, astute political observers were already accusing the big banksters of bringing Communism to America. N.b. that whoever drew this, did so two years before the big banksters created the Federal Reserve system with the help of their boy Woodrow Wilson and a pliant Congress.
h/t Last of the V8s. I don’t know if V8s agrees with me or not. I asked if anybody had the cartoon, which I saw somewhere years ago. He happened to have it, with appropriate sourcing in the same graphic.
For both of them, their central tenants are nationalism, collectivism, authoritarianism, and maintaining the American empire. In the Democratic convention, "UNITY!!!" was the resounding message, while in the Republican convention, "LAW & ORDER!!!" was what they chose to most focus on.
For both of them, their central tenets are to get elected by telling their popular fan bases what they want to hear. It’s just advertising: Some people like Coke’s ads better; some people, Pepsi’s ads. Either way, you are getting some awful swill that I would never drink.
After the election, it is business as usual. Trump has done nothing of real, long-term significance about the single most important principal issue for most of his base: Immigration. (And he can’t: Demographically, in the long term, America’s destiny to be a white-minority country is already an accomplished fact. His promises are just salesmanship.) Obama was such a bad warmonger that he was justifiably accused by a disgruntled faction of his own supporters of being Dubya Bush’s third term. Etc...
After the election, there will probably be quite a bit of violence, which is really sad and pathetic.
It all depends when your government finds it convenient to roll some tanks (eh, “APCs” or whatever) and kill some Americans. From their track record, they excel at that.
If the rabbles now run riot, it is only because TPTB so permit.
Support for what are fundamentally Antifa riots—which so happen to exploit peculiarity American racial tensions via BLM. Now, do you begin to get why I put the Antifa logo into OP together with JPMorgan Chase’s logo?
Mt. Kisco, New York, 5 June 2020
Image source: CNBC reporter
The violence will be quelled by means of bigger violence, whenever Mr Dimon, et al. decide to stop playing submissive. LOL.
For almost everyone, 99.9% of life will be the same under Trump or Biden, but yet probably at least a quarter of Americans are going to feel a certain sense of hopelessness and/or fear after their candidate loses the election. According to an August Pew poll, only 16% of voters say that "things will be pretty much the same regardless of who is elected," even though this is in fact the reality. I feel bad for all of the people who have tied themselves up personally with this election, as if Trump or Biden actually cared about them, or as if their election will actually matter much to the voters personally.
Well-stated. But this is a feature, not a bug. As I argued in my “Voting Votaries” post briefly referenced below, and as I allude in my OP cartoon here, the “polarization” keeps the voting masses engaged. It thus maintains the “consent of the governed” without which the American régime would eventually collapse just like the Soviet Union.
That said, the election result won't be unimportant. The executive branch has been ceded more and more power by Congress over the decades, so a president can do quite a bit. A president could for example wield the administrative state in such a way as to make it very difficult to use Bitcoin without existing in the shadows, and a Biden administration is probably more likely to move in this direction than a Trump administration. I'd also prefer to see a Trump win because it's likely to lead the coastal states to think much more seriously about secession, which would be one path toward ending the Federal Reserve as we know it. (I think that political action of any sort almost never has positive expected value, though, including in this election.)
Concentration of power in the executive branch has been a very bad idea for you folks. In addition to the issues that you describe, it results in everything from rule by emergency order, to the proliferation of an entrenched bureaucracy (all execuctive-branch stuff!) ruling with “administrative law” tyranny. I think that most American consider the U.S. Code to be “Federal law”; well, what about that other conjoined-twin body of Federal law, the C.F.R.? (To say nothing of the thicket of Federal case law...)
Anyway, if presidential precedent has already been set for seizure of your gold by E.O. before asking Congress, I think it’s safe to say that any which way, you exist at the mercy of whoever holds the reins of power in “your” government.
maintaining the American empire.
I see a lot of value in "maintaining the American empire".. Do you not?
For my part, I don’t!
Yes their is a lot wrong with it, but what other chance does the world have for freedom and libertarian principles than "the American empire" (staying mostly constitutional) remaining the dominant force?
America is not the world-police!
America is the tyrant of the world.
America’s spreading of the Orwellian American idea of “freedom” is NOT WELCOME.
To be “liberated” by Americans is to be enslaved by them, if not killed outright.
Of course, I do not mean that all individual Americans approve of all the work of bombing countries into “liberation” under the imposition of American-approved régimes, to “make the world safe for democracy”. In fact, I am sure that many individuals disapprove. That may be unfortunate.
DOWN WITH THE AMERICAN EMPIRE!
If only Bruno’s witty “conspiracy theory” were correct. :-(
Which makes me think of another theory. The entire crypto space is under attack by Russians with an attempt to get nullius elected president of the US where nullius is really a US citizen.
What’s the probability? (...that “WANTED” poster did say “politically incorrect”, did it not?)
As for US-USSR being distinct without difference—why yes, I think you’re right. They’re evil twins.
[...]
If "the American empire" collapses and is replaced, what do you realistically think it will be replaced by?
Me? Probably Chinese communism, including complete lack of respect for the right to LIFE, much less speech and self defense..
If "the American empire" collapses and is replaced, what do you realistically think it will be replaced by?
Me? Probably Chinese communism, including complete lack of respect for the right to LIFE, much less speech and self defense..
That is like suggesting that a patient with advanced metastatic cancer should avoid the removal of his biggest tumour, because he suffers other big tumours that may grow. The world is collapsing. I say this not from some eschatological fantasy, but from an historical perspective that is purely rational, and rejects all mysticism and quasi-mysticism (except for my beliefs in the god of Bitcoin, and the apotheosis of the Catbat goddess! ;-)
Yeats was grasping for mysticism at a time when the world was in chaos, and his wife had just almost died of the flu. Global pandemic flu with high lethality, which cut through populations of young, healthy people like a scythe felling wheat. Thus, “The Second Coming”. Any Day Now™.
(Anyway, it has already happened. The true “Second Coming” was Karl Marx, who reformed the original second-century dogmata of the faith on a new foundation. In the Age of Science, fairytales became unsustainable, and rather embarrassing. The essence of Communism is a synthesis of Sermon on the Mount 2.0, Post French Revolutionary Edition, with the economic worldview of Capitalism—wherefore the Communist Bible is titled, Capital.)
The so-called “Singularity” is a religious eschatology for irrational fanatics who have swapped faith in gods for faith in technocracy. They want a god from a machine, a literal deus ex machina to save them from their own follies.
Dear Talking Monkeys:
Please get it through your thick primate skulls that you are alone in the universe, you are all going to die, there is no life beyond this world, and nothing whatsoever will remain of you if you do not safeguard your posterity.
Thank you.
(Anyway, it has already happened. The true “Second Coming” was Karl Marx, who reformed the original second-century dogmata of the faith on a new foundation. In the Age of Science, fairytales became unsustainable, and rather embarrassing. The essence of Communism is a synthesis of Sermon on the Mount 2.0, Post French Revolutionary Edition, with the economic worldview of Capitalism—wherefore the Communist Bible is titled, Capital.)
The so-called “Singularity” is a religious eschatology for irrational fanatics who have swapped faith in gods for faith in technocracy. They want a god from a machine, a literal deus ex machina to save them from their own follies.
Dear Talking Monkeys:
Please get it through your thick primate skulls that you are alone in the universe, you are all going to die, there is no life beyond this world, and nothing whatsoever will remain of you if you do not safeguard your posterity.
Thank you.
Moreover, Red China is currently the most Capitalist country in the world: It is ruled from the stock exchanges by giant multinational corporations running factories that are small cities packed with wage slaves. (Ultra-left Silicon Valley liberals have got to get their hipster tech devices somehow!)
America is the most Communist country in the world, as well as the biggest spreader of Communism for the past century. I don’t want to launch into a long essay about that now; so...
Quote
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
Just for instance, look up what happened to Ngô Đình Diệm for an exemplary illustration of America’s long and sordid history of creating problems, and then pretending to fight them. The CIA set Vietnam up for a total Communist takeover with Diệm’s unfortunate demise—and then, of course, the valiant American world-police had to make war on Communism in Vietnam! A war that was deliberately set up, and deliberately set up to be unwinnable.
Just for instance.
“WAR IS PEACE”, indeed.
Learn a lesson from Diệm—or from Saddam Hussein and from the Kurds in Iraq who rebelled against Saddam in ’91—or any other of numerous examples of people who met their demises through American treachery:
Never trust the Americans.
You think something as radical as abolishing the federal reserve is realistic?
It’s not going to happen..
It’s not going to happen..
My point was that voting is not merely pointless, but counterproductive, if abolishing the Federal Reserve with the vote is unrealistic—as indeed it is.
Politics is the art of the possible. Wasting your energy on elections stops you from doing what is possible. Improving your plight by voting is categorically unrealistic.
Quoting myself from your 2020 election thread with suchmoon—sorry, I have not been following it:
Like betting on cockfights or football games: The whole concept of this thread adequately sums the value of democracy. It is entertainment. It keeps the proles distracted, and dissipates their energies in a way that is harmless to the system.
On Votaries of the Vote
On Votaries of the Vote
The best we can hope for is preserving the constitution, stop more infringements in the constitution, mostly through SCOTUS appointments,
“Preserve the Constitution!” was a good rallying cry for American Conservatives about... let’s see... arguably the 1950s or 60s. More reasonably, the 1930s. (Insert also a reply to Twitchy in the other thread about Roosevelt’s court-packing scheme.) Maybe earlier.
(By the way, it’s funny that my long-time hatred for America has driven me to learn more about American political history than most Americans know. As when I study Communism per se, I study the etiology of the disease.)
Your hope is to preserve the horses by locking the barn door now. Horses gone. Too late.
and otherwise hope that that government does, as theymos says, nothing..
Agreed! But that is unrealistic.
Let’s put it this way: Americans nowadays don’t much remember the debates for the passage of their Federal Income Tax—a big deal, back then, when people gave a hoot about the Constitution; it required action by Congress plus state governments to ratify a Constitutional amendment. Well, a common theme for proponents was to argue that tax rates could never exceed 5%—because no government could ever spend so much money. Well, nowadays, your government bills you for—how much, in taxes? It wouldn’t want to do nothing with that! Money needs to be spent. At least, that is the way that modern governments work. Your massive entrenched bureaucracies must find some way to spend their budgets, lest the budgets be cut. And politicians need to make a big show of “Do Something!” to get elected, or re-elected, as the case may be.
It is getting worse and more Orwellian under either the Dems or GOP
Agreed.
but I believe the destruction of America’s founding principles will be slower and lesser under Trump than Biden..
The difference is negligible.
Also, Trump had done an amazing job of redpilling normies the world over.. Many topics are brought to light because of him that otherwise would have never crossed the attention of most average people..
I think that it’s the reverse: Trump only even ran for political office, because people were already starting to talk about things that they hadn’t even dared to whisper about for decades. As a savvy businessman (and a savvier showman), he seized the opportunity to tell people what they want to hear—what they are desperate to hear! Don’t suppose that the tail wags the dog.
2021-03-14: Edited to add anchor.
October 25, 2020, 05:28:50 PM
maintaining the American empire.
I see a lot of value in "maintaining the American empire".. Do you not?
Yes their is a lot wrong with it, but what other chance does the world have for freedom and libertarian principles than "the American empire" (staying mostly constitutional) remaining the dominant force?
The way I see it the USA is the last power standing, and nearly the only, that gives 2 shits about preserving "freedom of speech" and the "right to bear arms", that 9X% of governments do not even protect..
If "the American empire" collapses and is replaced, what do you realistically think it will be replaced by?
Me? Probably Chinese communism, including complete lack of respect for the right to LIFE, much less speech and self defense..
Where are you going to register Bitcointalk.org if the USA is taken over by its enemies?
.onion only most likely.. Oh, that was also created by the American Empire..
If you can think of a better place to register this forum on the clearnet than under "the American empire", and would feel more safe and would rather abide by their laws, then why have you not pushed for it yet?
October 25, 2020, 04:23:44 PM
Especially after watching both conventions, I really got the sense that both parties are at their core fascist parties, with only relatively minor differences between them. For both of them, their central tenants are nationalism, collectivism, authoritarianism, and maintaining the American empire. In the Democratic convention, "UNITY!!!" was the resounding message, while in the Republican convention, "LAW & ORDER!!!" was what they chose to most focus on.
After the election, there will probably be quite a bit of violence, which is really sad and pathetic. For almost everyone, 99.9% of life will be the same under Trump or Biden, but yet probably at least a quarter of Americans are going to feel a certain sense of hopelessness and/or fear after their candidate loses the election. According to an August Pew poll, only 16% of voters say that "things will be pretty much the same regardless of who is elected," even though this is in fact the reality. I feel bad for all of the people who have tied themselves up personally with this election, as if Trump or Biden actually cared about them, or as if their election will actually matter much to the voters personally.
That said, the election result won't be unimportant. The executive branch has been ceded more and more power by Congress over the decades, so a president can do quite a bit. A president could for example wield the administrative state in such a way as to make it very difficult to use Bitcoin without existing in the shadows, and a Biden administration is probably more likely to move in this direction than a Trump administration. I'd also prefer to see a Trump win because it's likely to lead the coastal states to think much more seriously about secession, which would be one path toward ending the Federal Reserve as we know it. (I think that political action of any sort almost never has positive expected value, though, including in this election.)
After the election, there will probably be quite a bit of violence, which is really sad and pathetic. For almost everyone, 99.9% of life will be the same under Trump or Biden, but yet probably at least a quarter of Americans are going to feel a certain sense of hopelessness and/or fear after their candidate loses the election. According to an August Pew poll, only 16% of voters say that "things will be pretty much the same regardless of who is elected," even though this is in fact the reality. I feel bad for all of the people who have tied themselves up personally with this election, as if Trump or Biden actually cared about them, or as if their election will actually matter much to the voters personally.
That said, the election result won't be unimportant. The executive branch has been ceded more and more power by Congress over the decades, so a president can do quite a bit. A president could for example wield the administrative state in such a way as to make it very difficult to use Bitcoin without existing in the shadows, and a Biden administration is probably more likely to move in this direction than a Trump administration. I'd also prefer to see a Trump win because it's likely to lead the coastal states to think much more seriously about secession, which would be one path toward ending the Federal Reserve as we know it. (I think that political action of any sort almost never has positive expected value, though, including in this election.)
October 24, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
Federal Reserve inflation-taxation is a taxation that is hidden, and must stop!
October 24, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
You think something as radical as abolishing the federal reserve is realistic?
It’s not going to happen..
The best we can hope for is preserving the constitution, stop more infringements in the constitution, mostly through SCOTUS appointments, and otherwise hope that that government does, as theymos says, nothing..
It is getting worse and more Orwellian under either the Dems or GOP but I believe the destruction of America’s founding principles will be slower and lesser under Trump than Biden..
Also, Trump had done an amazing job of redpilling normies the world over.. Many topics are brought to light because of him that otherwise would have never crossed the attention of most average people..
It’s not going to happen..
The best we can hope for is preserving the constitution, stop more infringements in the constitution, mostly through SCOTUS appointments, and otherwise hope that that government does, as theymos says, nothing..
It is getting worse and more Orwellian under either the Dems or GOP but I believe the destruction of America’s founding principles will be slower and lesser under Trump than Biden..
Also, Trump had done an amazing job of redpilling normies the world over.. Many topics are brought to light because of him that otherwise would have never crossed the attention of most average people..
October 24, 2020, 08:07:02 AM
Do they really agree? Perhaps. But it is what they agree on that is important. Here they seem to agree on something that Biden seems to want. But really, they agree on Biden's wanting of it, not that they both want it.
So Donald Trump Just got Joe Biden to Admit that He Wants to Ban the Entire U.S. Oil Industry…
So Donald Trump Just got Joe Biden to Admit that He Wants to Ban the Entire U.S. Oil Industry…
Over the last several days they spent many hours carefully rehearsing every potential question, and they just needed Joe to get through one last debate without making some sort of colossal game-changing mistake.
And he almost did it.
Even though Trump had hit him with quite a few jabs throughout Thursday night's debate, Biden was on the verge of escaping without any major damage being done.
But right near the end of the debate we witnessed a moment that could change everything.
With just a few minutes to go, President Trump asked Biden if he would shut down the U.S. oil industry, and all Biden needed to do was to say "no" to that question and move on.
Instead, Biden decided to be honest for some reason, and that could potentially cost him millions of votes.
Here is the exchange that everyone is buzzing about…
Trump: “Would you close down the oil industry?”
Biden: “I would transition from the oil industry, yes.”
Trump: “That’s a big statement.”
Biden: “That is a big statement.”
And he almost did it.
Even though Trump had hit him with quite a few jabs throughout Thursday night's debate, Biden was on the verge of escaping without any major damage being done.
But right near the end of the debate we witnessed a moment that could change everything.
With just a few minutes to go, President Trump asked Biden if he would shut down the U.S. oil industry, and all Biden needed to do was to say "no" to that question and move on.
Instead, Biden decided to be honest for some reason, and that could potentially cost him millions of votes.
Here is the exchange that everyone is buzzing about…
Trump: “Would you close down the oil industry?”
Biden: “I would transition from the oil industry, yes.”
Trump: “That’s a big statement.”
Biden: “That is a big statement.”
October 24, 2020, 05:33:40 AM
Biden may be the winner on election shows on reality TV but Trump will be the final winner of this election. I am not saying it will be good for the Americans or for the world, but as per the astrology, trump has more chances of winning this election.
October 23, 2020, 11:27:09 PM
Well, I am not always a fan of the Babylon Bee; but they are oft funny, and this belongs here:
Added much later. But luckily without any apparent anachronism!
Quote from: https://babylonbee.com/news/to-improve-next-debate-both-candidates-mics-will-be-muted-the-entire-time
To Improve Next Debate Both Candidates' Mics Will Be Muted The Entire Time
October 21st, 2020
U.S.—In an attempt to improve viewers' experience at the next debate, both candidates' mics will be muted the entire time.
[...]
Based on popular demand, the moderator's mic will also be muted.
Both campaigns say they are in favor of the change, as it eliminates the chance their candidate will say something stupid.
October 21st, 2020
U.S.—In an attempt to improve viewers' experience at the next debate, both candidates' mics will be muted the entire time.
[...]
Based on popular demand, the moderator's mic will also be muted.
Both campaigns say they are in favor of the change, as it eliminates the chance their candidate will say something stupid.
Added much later. But luckily without any apparent anachronism!
October 16, 2020, 11:45:10 AM
With my own observation concerning the upcoming US election I think Trump will win Biden because it hard to win someone who is on seat like Trump who is the president of US, still have power to control anything before election day.
October 16, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
reserved
October 16, 2020, 09:00:32 AM
reserved
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