Topic: Trump will compete directly with Bitcoin - page 5. (Read 2233 times)

I agree with you here. If BTC was really a danger they would have found a way to restrict already in the US since. But it isn't, instead it's one of the highest sectors that the US government take taxes from through trading. This is why most traders in the US, are complaining that they enjoy low benefits of trading because of the high taxes they pay. So, dismissing trading as a source of revenue in the US will reduce their financial strength.

Since it's un-centralized, Trump cannot control the blockchain because that is the way he can stop traders. Traders will still access their account with VPN if it is banned from access. Even China banned it for a while, many traders still accessed they're through VPN. What Trump can do but i know he won't be to increase the taxes enough that it will be unaffordable for US traders.

Supporting the discrimination of self-custody marks as "anti-Bitcoin" to me.

You can't, though. Even if the excuse of surveilling everyone "for the sake of the children" was not ridiculous to begin with, it's simply no longer feasible in practice. The Internet makes it virtually impossible to monitor those who take care of their privacy, just as it makes it impractical to prevent encrypted messages from being transmitted. You're only increasing the potential harm for innocent people.

I don't care what percentage that is. Discriminating people that self-custody their bitcoin is criminal, IMO, and definitely anti-Bitcoin.

I don't consider him saint. I'm just noticing his stance on certain things, like crypto, and compare him to the other candidate. Given that one of them is anti-Bitcoin, because he uses tax payer money to fund blockchain surveillance and wants to pass laws that discriminate the very essence of bitcoin, I don't have high standards for the other one.

How can I be a Harris supporter? She lost and the election is over. We'll never hear from that politician again.

And how do you know Musk is not dumping his Bitcoin now? He will make 10x more on using the government to pump Tesla and SpaceX than he ever could with his crypto. It's quite possible we never hear anything about crypto again from Musk since he has bigger money to make now.

I think it's worth discussing the risks the new ruling faction in the US poses to the crypto market--and the President himself being directly in our business is clearly a gigantic new risk.

And this isn't "bashing" Trump--what good would that do?--this is just discussing what the new situation is.

I strongly don't believe this part of your comment. From all indications and actions of Trump in Bitcoin in the pre election and the support gotten from Bitcoin enthusiast. After the election when Trump emerged as winner. Elon Musk went there and congratulated him and probably other Bitcoin community members did the same. Op let's us remove political sentiment. From your point of views on the matter indicates that you are strong and die hard supporter of Kamala Harris but now that Trump has won, what is next in the Bitcoin community. And as I said Trump will not illegalized Bitcoin in US though we can't predict politicians promises but US is not Africa.

I never said he was "pro-Bitcoin" per se, only that it's completely ridiculous to characterize him as, "out to get Bitcoin". The adoption numbers alone make that statement look ridiculous.

And yes, the US government wants to stop terrorism, and the attacks on our private institutions (esp. hospitals) that make use of tools that allow them to be paid without being traced. While those laws haven't all passed, you can bet your last dollar that US citizens are sick of being robbed and terrorized by these people, so they will eventually make things like mixers illegal to use in the US.

But that's 0.01% of the market that even cares about that. Most people use a KYC'd exchange anyhow because they have nothing to hide from the government if they were to specifically target them.

Hence your characterization that "Biden was out to get Bitcoin" was misleading since 99.9% of Bitcoin users are not targets for any laws that are even proposed, let alone these laws you say "might get passed" in some version of the future.


I've said no such thing. In fact, in a new thread, I'm saying the exact opposite: that the markets have only priced Trump's victory at +7%--which you could argue could have happened if there was no election at all, and is what Bitcoin does all of the time.


I'm saying that Trump presents a drastically different risk to Bitcoin based on his track record of self-dealing, of lawlessness, and the fact that he is, unlike any other elected politician in the USA (or anywhere?) in the actual business himself personally. You are whistling past the graveyard if you don't think this is a significant new risk to Bitcoin.

I knew the bitcoin was going to see an ATH if Donald Trump eventually wins the elections I also knew Trump had a better campaign manifesto than the candidate of Democrats, Kamala. He was going to favor the bitcoin market more than Harris and seems to pick things from a more realistic direction. Imagine the Gender Affirming Care pushed by the Joe Biden's regime to promote transgenda within children and other older individuals. Trump immediately called this a child abuse which I so much support him.

Depending on his approach and priority list on the revamping of the economy, it will give a direction to the bull or bear market between next year. The investments capital will see a massive increase and his administration might contribute largely on the strength of the market.

Please read the actual piece of legislation. Here's a post that quotes the essence: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63029978. This proposal was published in 2023, under Biden, and it basically describes that for Bitcoin use to be legal, you must go through a fully licensed third party, fully KYC-ed-- essentially, discriminating anyone self-custodying their bitcoin.

... so far. For if democrats were allowed to govern the US for another four years, I highly doubt they wouldn't attempt to step forward into more, similar dystopian proposals. (I don't believe republicans are way better in this regard, but I find it moronic to think of Biden as pro-Bitcoin, just because self-custody wasn't "banned" since he entered office.)

I'm not expecting any miracles, and I don't rely on politicians. But, you've presented a viewpoint suggesting that Bitcoin's success is completely dependent on a political party. IMO, you're being excessive, because you suggest that everything would be fine if President X were in office, just because Bitcoin ... wasn't made illegal for as long as his presidency ..., while President Y would lead to the complete collapse of the crypto space, because... he just wants to pump his coin...

Yes, but Trump can make trading in Bitcoin illegal. That's the whole point.


No, he is/was not. There is simply no evidence of this, and a mountain of evidence to the contrary, i.e. the massive expansion of Bitcoin in the US under Biden.

And if what you were saying as even remotely true, then Bitcoin would have gone up 10x because of Trump's win, not ~7% like it has done. The market is basically saying, "Trump will probably be slightly better for Bitcoin" (or, it could be saying, "oh good, Trump didn't lose so there will be no political violence in the USA, which could roil the markets").

If you are expecting some kind of miracle from Trump being elected, it's not going to happen. The laws aren't going to change at all, most likely--unless they change in favor of Trump's personal coin.


And using the power of the US government he could do exactly that.



I'm saying that USD is a meme investment, too. USD has a certain brand name and idea in people's head, just as Bitcoin does.

Today, USD is perhaps 5% of the world's investment portfolio. This will get even smaller over time as the world moves away from physical cash.

I'm also saying that, forever, USD will be used as a measurement for wealth. Indeed, I would even predict that, like the English language, USD may well become the only surviving wealth measurement system in the human race in say 100 years. (But like the English language, the ubiquity of on-the-fly translators will make the specific measurement system less relevant).

The app showing your savings account is always going to be displayed in USD and everything you buy will be displayed in USD--even if hardly anybody actually holds any actual USD.

You're right but with the Senate taking this possible action, there is some light on it. But as you've said, we shouldn't be celebrating too early when they remain just words without actions. If he cannot focus a lot on giving some benefits to Bitcoin and its holders, he can easily assign someone that's going to work it out, that's what I think will happen. It may not come directly from him but someone who works for him and have his favor.

That's okay if it's not on the priority list but these sectors of government coming from the presidential office, to the senate and they are going to work on it accordingly is what makes it having the positive thought. But then, you two are right that we should take with some grain of salt and don't be over optimistic about it.

Besides that, we've seen LN operator and CoinJoin coordinator forced to either shut down their services or reject US citizen/IP address within a year. Although to be clear, i don't know which law enable that and who create/support such law.

As long as Bitcoin is tradable in the US, no other currency can compete for the same position. The network effect is simply too powerful to overlook. And I'm glad Trump understands it.

• Biden and his people pass the laws that squeeze the space. I don't care if it's him personally or not. He held that power to influence.
• Trump is not competing with Bitcoin unless he discriminates people from owning and trading bitcoin.

I'm trying to understand your perspective. Are you saying that every money-- except those sustained by coercive means like the USD-- is just a 'meme investment' in your view?

It can be taken with a grain of salt.
As well as the words - "We will make BTC US-made" and such.
However, it all boils down to what he will stick to in the months to come and what promises he will fulfill in the end.
I do think that BTC and crypto overall are not the first and not even the third thing that would be on the list.. 

I do not think we should be too optimistic about too many things to be fair. Everything Trump has said so far will remain words without actions. Right now he is still not at work so we need to be patient and wait for his first action. Of course as president he is not just going to be focusing on bitcoin so I do not expect him to do something related to bitcoin first things first at the office. He has a lot to do but having bitcoin as a national reserve is something he has expressed before so many are looking forward to how can he make it happen. Like any politician, he must be criticized if he is not doing his job correctly or as promised but for now all we can do is hope and maybe take advantage of the new ATH.

Since the images aren't yet fixed, I've seen this tweet on X from Senator Cynthia Lummis that was shared by somebody on social. So, I'll have it quoted here what are your thoughts on this? Is this going to be a dream come true for those who have thought of this several years ago? or this could just be something else not to be too optimistic about?

If he tries to cheat the common people by making some shit coins then he will have the power to do that but he will never try to do this. By doing this, those who have faith in him in the crypto space will not support him. With Trump currently there are many in this space who are in favor of moving the crypto space ahead, but they certainly won't create a situation that relegates the space under the Trump administration. If Trump changes his policies towards crypto and frees it up, this will be the golden age of any time in the past. Bitcoin will certainly be able to reach a particular place if it works the way Trump's campaign has touted his support for Bitcoin and crypto. But there's no way to say it will change anytime soon. Moreover, it is difficult to say that US policies will change very quickly. But surely we can get positive response during his period.

The United States will progress and accepts new developments as Trump as president, we know how fierce and strict this man can be because he's in the Forbes list for most powerful men in the universe. He has strong back up partner, Elon Musk that threw all his support to Donald Trump during his campaign and he's finally emerged as winner, we should expect more good things coming to America and the crypto space would be be bullish for the week. Donald Trump is announced winner for the 2024 electoral presidency of the United States of America. Its good news for the Business tycoon because he has more duties to handle as the newly elected president of the United States, accomplishing his ambition as president wouldn't be a problem for him.

Yes, it could definitely get to that. Or maybe he won't need to while still making his own coin worth $1T+. And yes, I didn't go into the long explanation about what I meant because... I was lazy . But "illegal" basically describes what I am talking about.


First of all, Biden did not "try to squeeze the crypto space". That's pure nonsense, and Bitcoin went up 500% under Biden.

And in case you haven't been tracking where all of the $billions from the crypto space came from, it was... (surprise!) entities like Coinbase, who are in the business of NOT self-custody.

Bitcoin isn't going to benefit from being "even more legal" now that Trump has been elected. It's legal now, and it will remain so as long as that benefits Trump personally.

And finally, you are comparing Biden (who, to be clear, had absolutely no direct connection to crypto laws or regulations) to Trump who is actively competing with Bitcoin with a product that brings real money directly to his own personal pocket. That's just an absurd comparison.



Compared to the overall assets of the country? It's peanuts now days for the major economies. The gold in Fort Knox is worth about $300B, which is diddly squat in this context.

They hold these reserves as a legacy investment, because they always have, but it doesn't move the overall needly anymore and hasn't for a century.


Well, I think part of it is the point I made above about gold. I also think that the globalization of economies makes them act very differently. Today, ordinary consumers can, within milliseconds, trade in and out of investments all of the world and have no incentive to, nor barrier to keep them from, holding any significant amount of their daily trading currency. This alone starts to make individual currencies, in terms of their long value, irrelevant. In other words, if the value of a currency goes down, you just trade out of it, or better yet your algo does it in real time for you. This also completely globalizes the world financial system in real time (which, I reckon, will actually makes things very volatile because money can come and go from economies so fast now).

I expect the USD to survive in the long term (and survive forever) only as a measurement instrument and nothing else. There will be currencies suited for transactions (high speed, low cost), and currencies that are popular memes and therefore hold a lot of value. And USD, EU, etc. will just live along side all of the other memes, in terms of their investment value--and governments themselves will invest this way, which means the value of their own currency won't necessarily affect their economy nor their people.

And I am... also missing a ton of details here, and I certainly don't know them all, but... this is a very, VERY different world we live in now.

OK... But, in the previous discussions we've had, you said he would make it illegal, and I think you were pretty clear on that part. You even claimed that he would reach a point to discriminate anyone who runs software with consensus rules that do not align with his altered version of Bitcoin. (At least that's how I interpreted your solution for his plan to "change" Bitcoin.)

Of course he's going to pass laws that benefit him and his close people, just as Biden tried to squeezed as much of the crypto space as possible, by passing laws that discriminate people that choose to self-custody their bitcoin. I'm genuinely curious what's worse than that for a bitcoiner.

Why do central banks hold immense amounts of gold if they do not view it as a safe haven?

What has changed, comparably to the old times?

I agree "illegal" is the wrong word, but it's hard to describe what I am talking about in brief. I have competed ("competed") in China with the CPC with products before in my career, and they do... things... to you. They don't out-and-out make your product illegal, they just pass certain subtle laws and policies that advantage the party's product and disadvantage yours.

Trump will surely be subtle about what he does, but as this is a way for him to make himself a trillionaire, I think there's a pretty high risk of this happening. The entire digital currency industry should be very wary that they are now in direct competition with the president of the US, and it's a president who is already a convicted criminal and his voters don't care, so he won't be constrained by any particular "law".



I think the US economy in general is under a lot of risk because Trump's promised policies will send the US into a recession (this is what Musk meant when he said there would be "temporary pain"). A recession would obviously tank BTC just like all other popular retail investments.

The USD itself will probably be fine through all of this--unless the economic downturn causes them to panic and start devaluing the dollar to juice exports, but the current political/economic climate doesn't seem to think that way. Today's typical thinking in the US is that we should cut ourselves off from the rest of the world and eschew both imports and exports (I'm stating this as a general trend, not an absolute of course).

The other problem with waiting for the USD to tank is that there needs to be something for it to tank against. When the US economy tumbles, we usually take the rest of the world with us, and our currency remains "good" by every available measurement. And things like gold and BTC today operate like meme speculation investments, not safe havens. Even real estate is like this now, to some extent. In our world today, all assets are highly hype-driven so when economic disruption kills the hype, those assets all fall no matter what they are--because they are all so far above their fundamentals.

The modern world economy is a very different beast than what we saw in the past. The old rules don't apply.

I did, and he indeed created his own coin, no denial about that. I just can't picture him making Bitcoin illegal, which is the only practical way to compete, after all he and his partners have said about Bitcoin. So far, it seems like he wants all the bitcoins. Betray that, and you've lost a big portion of your voters.

I'm not focused on short-term gains, which is why I didn't comment on it earlier. I just came across this video on Twitter, where he appeared more knowledgeable and supportive of the crypto industry than Biden.

It sounds like the USD would be more at risk than Bitcoin, and I'm quite certain the Fed won't let that happen.