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Topic: "Trust" system is shit !!! "Trust me !!!" (Read 2519 times)

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legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
September 14, 2018, 03:03:08 PM
#70
i think after quite a while the mods can forgive me my once confussion and remove the distrust from my account,

we arent born with perfect information awareness.

No, but we should learn basic respect for others.  :/

I would be against any change in your account, just based on your immaturity. 
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
September 14, 2018, 12:25:53 PM
#69
i think after quite a while the mods can forgive me my once confussion and remove the distrust from my account,

we arent born with perfect information awareness.

Lauda and The Pharmacist are not mods.
sr. member
Activity: 1470
Merit: 325
September 14, 2018, 08:38:27 AM
#68
i think after quite a while the mods can forgive me my once confussion and remove the distrust from my account,

we arent born with perfect information awareness.
full member
Activity: 630
Merit: 107
September 01, 2018, 12:49:17 PM
#67
~
Quote
your storytelling is just superfluous
If you think it is so then the "archive" stuff is also false as I was also storytelling there . This forum needs better system first .

I agree forums needs a better way (maybe for conflict of interest) but how can you tell the archive stuffs are a lie?
I can see this on your profile: https://archive.is/wUeEd#55%
And if I go there I can read this message, how can be a lie?
Did I missing something?

https://puu.sh/BnW2z/ab4d1afc72.png

Yep you missed the trust rating I gave to that person . I wanted to nab him and he actually exposed himself . His account was banned my moderator himself . If I had 30 or 50 accounts it is COMMON SENSE that I were not so sad about this account only .


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-will-pray-for-you-literally-4632723

http://archive.is/bd8Zv
http://archive.is/LOdFT

If you understand why OP of THIS thread was given 5 merits, please let me know !
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 359
September 01, 2018, 09:22:38 AM
#66
Well I am not reporting anything and it is just a discussion . You are unable to understand that this is not the only case , there may be thousands like mine . Every system has flaws but this system is very ill featured giving no chance to red guys . Every single person on this earth deserves a chance .

So why the hell you bring up the discussion now? not at the time you got scammed? Because obviously you will have a lot of evidence when it is fresh and new and it would backed up all of your statement here even it is only a discussion.

snip

If you think like that you are likely to be the next guy on my morons list . Mark my words : Trust is a myth . Anyone can back stab you at any moment when that person feels it is good . You have missed my thread , I have handled thousands of dollars and delivered to people asking for "TIME" effective service scamming not a single person . I do not need to prove it , good people watch it on daily basis .

Quote
your storytelling is just superfluous
If you think it is so then the "archive" stuff is also false as I was also storytelling there . This forum needs better system first .

Good saying that "trust is a myth" by someone who just got scammed because he trust the "trust system" which is contradictive right?

I know that consumer is a king in a business, but a business needs a ground rule, especially on payment system. I never heard an obese man who always eat at McD regularly can pay their meal in the end of the month because the policy is clear, you pay you eat no matter who you are. The trust system indeed need a fix, but in your scam case (which i dont believe at all) you are against your own "trust is a myth" word and you clearly do not have a payment policy for your customer, so you can not blame the trust system all alone.

~
Quote
your storytelling is just superfluous
snip
snip



Gotcha !
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 1512
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
September 01, 2018, 09:02:37 AM
#65
~
Quote
your storytelling is just superfluous
If you think it is so then the "archive" stuff is also false as I was also storytelling there . This forum needs better system first .

I agree forums needs a better way (maybe for conflict of interest) but how can you tell the archive stuffs are a lie?
I can see this on your profile: https://archive.is/wUeEd#55%
And if I go there I can read this message, how can be a lie?
Did I missing something?

full member
Activity: 630
Merit: 107
September 01, 2018, 01:10:47 AM
#64
The trust system is not perfect but it is the only form of moderation we have against the scammers since the scam is not moderated by the moderators of the forum.
I can agree that it is not perfect but atleast it is useful in part and solves some problems for some users because you can quickly get feedback on a person through a simple click.

For example you have -8 -3+0, a good reason to put you on my ignore list.

If you think like that you are likely to be the next guy on my morons list . Mark my words : Trust is a myth . Anyone can back stab you at any moment when that person feels it is good . You have missed my thread , I have handled thousands of dollars and delivered to people asking for "TIME" effective service scamming not a single person . I do not need to prove it , good people watch it on daily basis .

Quote
your storytelling is just superfluous
If you think it is so then the "archive" stuff is also false as I was also storytelling there . This forum needs better system first .
hero member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 525
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
August 31, 2018, 04:11:35 PM
#63
snip

Something like this would be good. But I would change a little: If you receive one negative feedback (from a DT member, obviously) you will have an orange mark (automatically); then to turn the mark red, the DT member will have to find another DT members to corroborate his feedback. It avoids persecution and situations like that where one person has enough power to destroy someone's reputation totally (what is the maxim of the centralization), generating controversies and inconsistencies.

And of course, a difference between the trust traders receive for making deals and trust people receive for being admired by others. This is a good point to think about...


Although until now there is no difference of the trust, you can always look up to their trust page and see the reference of the trust. It would give you a glimpse of how they gain the trust.

Indeed, however for some people a red is a red and a green is a green, doesn't matter the references, they rely blindly on what the official trust system shows them. This change would turn the system just a little more "didactic", what I think it's valid.

But for those who have their own judgement/opinion about the different presented situations it wouldn't make any difference.
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 1512
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
August 31, 2018, 02:23:21 PM
#62
The trust system is not perfect but it is the only form of moderation we have against the scammers since the scam is not moderated by the moderators of the forum.
I can agree that it is not perfect but atleast it is useful in part and solves some problems for some users because you can quickly get feedback on a person through a simple click.

For example you have -8 -3+0, a good reason to put you on my ignore list.
copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2504
Spear the bees
August 31, 2018, 01:27:25 PM
#61
Well ofcourse everything is fine other than morons statements like Lauda, Pharmacist and ibminer
Translation: everything is fine except for the things that say I'm untrustworthy. Don't pay attention to those.
Your explanation for refuting the very first trusted piece of feedback was also so utterly lackluster. Without any evidence, your storytelling is just superfluous.

How about an overhaul to the trust system?
Yes, but not what you proposed. Anything that involves moderators will always be turned down since "they have too much work" though there's an absence of active mods.

Something like this would be good. But I would change a little: If you receive one negative feedback (from a DT member, obviously) you will have an orange mark (automatically); then to turn the mark red, the DT member will have to find another DT members to corroborate his feedback.
This is good. Do this. It's already like this for positive-trust members (??? -> -1)
full member
Activity: 630
Merit: 107
August 31, 2018, 12:45:02 PM
#60
Stupid people like you say anything without any single proof : do you have even a single instance where I have scammed someone ? No ? Please get lost !
Looking at proofs...
I think this is far better idea to call at least 10 DT members to verify the basis on which a person is negative tagged .
Verifying proofs....reading Lauda's reference opinion....reading ibminer's reference opinion....reading The Pharmacist's reference opinion...

Nah, everything is just fine with your trust wall, especially this part http://archive.is/j7AEM. There you go, now go and find 6 other opinions and see if someone will counter negative feedback  Roll Eyes

Well ofcourse everything is fine other than morons statements like Lauda, Pharmacist and ibminer . Well why not ? My statement doesn't need any proof as it can happen with anyone . You know nothing about http://archive.is/j7AEM so better stay away from that crap.

Quote
Sometimes scammers didn't like to see their trust wall, until they get scammed Cheesy

Dear @marlboroza,
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" - George Carlin
Here comes another one .
Perfect statement for you @vphasitha01 . You speak like a bumpkin . If I were scamming people, I wouldn't have been here wasting my time with you morons .
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 172
August 30, 2018, 12:10:42 PM
#59
Stupid people like you say anything without any single proof : do you have even a single instance where I have scammed someone ? No ? Please get lost !
Looking at proofs...
I think this is far better idea to call at least 10 DT members to verify the basis on which a person is negative tagged .
Verifying proofs....reading Lauda's reference opinion....reading ibminer's reference opinion....reading The Pharmacist's reference opinion...

Nah, everything is just fine with your trust wall, especially this part http://archive.is/j7AEM. There you go, now go and find 6 other opinions and see if someone will counter negative feedback  Roll Eyes
Sometimes scammers didn't like to see their trust wall, until they get scammed Cheesy

Dear @marlboroza,
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" - George Carlin
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 2270
August 30, 2018, 11:25:27 AM
#58
Stupid people like you say anything without any single proof : do you have even a single instance where I have scammed someone ? No ? Please get lost !
Looking at proofs...
I think this is far better idea to call at least 10 DT members to verify the basis on which a person is negative tagged .
Verifying proofs....reading Lauda's reference opinion....reading ibminer's reference opinion....reading The Pharmacist's reference opinion...

Nah, everything is just fine with your trust wall, especially this part http://archive.is/j7AEM. There you go, now go and find 6 other opinions and see if someone will counter negative feedback  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1924
฿ear ride on the rainbow slide
August 30, 2018, 06:04:39 AM
#57
I still trust the green members more than the red ones (With an exception of a few)..... Just sayin'.

this forum is doomed to become the community of the bitcoin miner cult.


Strange that on a forum called Bitcoin Forum also known as Bitcointalk.

I went on a car forum and it was like déjà vu  of what you were saying. Just car cultists. They had a motorcycle section as well but they seemed to be mainly interested in cars.



1. i got mistrust because i wanted to trade merit with someone else to support each other, otherwise this forums consits only of gay bitcoin sectists that constantly merit each other




Hey hey, the new forum is coming out in 3018TM. Have high hopes.  Angry


Looks like some people already suspect that.
full member
Activity: 630
Merit: 107
August 29, 2018, 11:55:32 PM
#56
It is funny how you scammers are always talking about how trust system should work. Besides, OP is exactly what people are fighting against - payed ICO bump service, shilling for scam projects, spamming forum, bumping threads with nonsense, misleading investors etc.
I think there shoud be a voting system for DT members to survive each month .
Who will vote?

You and your alt account army?
Shitposters with 50+ accounts?
Quacky and his alt account army?

 Roll Eyes

A green trust guy lol . Yes, I have more than 50 alts, wait not 50 more than 1 crore alts now that sounds good ? Stupid people like you say anything without any single proof : do you have even a single instance where I have scammed someone ? No ? Please get lost !

How about an overhaul to the trust system?

What I think of: members would submit evidence/reference of whatever they are accusing another member of for moderators to look in to and decide whether the member deserves to be tagged or not (more like how 'Report to moderator' works). It would go down like this:

1. Negative Trust: if evidence is verified as true, accused members will be tagged with a red trust (exactly like what it is right now). This will be primarily for scammers, Ponzi, HYIP or Pyramid schemes' creators and promoters, known alternatives of scammers and even wanna-be scammers (if evidence is solid);

2. Slightly Negative Trust: if evidence cannot be verified or hardly present, but moderators can see that the accused member is showing attitude or doing actions which sustain the evidence (i.e., a member who is explicitly attacking, flaming or accusing other members for no obvious reasons—I think this forum has a fair share of those). This will also be for account sellers and buyers, verified shills, members suspected of being scammers (no solid evidence), Trust abusers, Merit and Trust traders, etc.;

3. Neutral Trust: would stay the same as it is;

4. Slightly Positive Trust: trusted members giving their trust to other members (for good actions like doing something good for the forum or the members themselves, trying hard to clean this forum from scammers and spammers, or trusting with no evidence, etc.), moderators won't need to look much in to this;

5. Positive Trust: this will be for honest, reputable traders (whether it be currency exchange, physical or digital goods, etc.), bounty managers, services providers, moderators, etc. This still needs evidence to be provided and approved in order to be tagged.

Notes:
I know this will still annoy butt-hurt people like CoolWave and KingScorpio as it gives MOAR POWAAA to "corrupted" moderators, and we will see increased numbers of threads like this one.  
I know this will add a ton of work for the already busy moderators, so expanding the moderation team a little could help.
I know Trust abusers will find a way to manipulate the system. However, this might stop members from tagging each other unfairly.
I also know that this isn't perfect (nothing really is?), and would need suggestions and changes from other trusted members.    

I agree and I declare that I have had none of those characteristics .

Quote
Something like this would be good. But I would change a little: If you receive one negative feedback (from a DT member, obviously) you will have an orange mark (automatically); then to turn the mark red, the DT member will have to find another DT members to corroborate his feedback. It avoids persecution and situations like that where one person has enough power to destroy someone's reputation totally (what is the maxim of the centralization), generating controversies and inconsistencies.

And of course, a difference between the trust traders receive for making deals and trust people receive for being admired by others. This is a good point to think about...

I think this is far better idea to call at least 10 DT members to verify the basis on which a person is negative tagged .
full member
Activity: 630
Merit: 107
August 29, 2018, 11:51:21 PM
#55
snip

I consider your statement as a humbug and stupid as there are too many similar cases . Not providing proof doesn't mean I was not scammed . And the word you have used is foolish on its own as anyone will do a small trade with a +ve trust guy & this was not my problem if it was a bought account .

You can tell people all you want because you think that you are the right person here. If you want to blame a system then play by a system. Say, will your report to the police be investigated if there is no single proof and you even said that you do not know the name of the scammer?

Not anyone is stupid and humbug and willing to trade a small amount with a positive trust guy without any precaution, especially on internet. Gosh. I am not defending the trust system, but you are completely wrong if you want to raise an awareness into trust system, by attacking it without any proof.

Well I am not reporting anything and it is just a discussion . You are unable to understand that this is not the only case , there may be thousands like mine . Every system has flaws but this system is very ill featured giving no chance to red guys . Every single person on this earth deserves a chance .
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 359
August 29, 2018, 09:41:21 PM
#54
The thing is, every system that is implemented in  in real world and in this forum, has flaws that can be used by evil people to gain something from innocent people. You can not trust the system blindly, and should make a priority for your self before you deal with anything in the closed system.

snip

Something like this would be good. But I would change a little: If you receive one negative feedback (from a DT member, obviously) you will have an orange mark (automatically); then to turn the mark red, the DT member will have to find another DT members to corroborate his feedback. It avoids persecution and situations like that where one person has enough power to destroy someone's reputation totally (what is the maxim of the centralization), generating controversies and inconsistencies.

And of course, a difference between the trust traders receive for making deals and trust people receive for being admired by others. This is a good point to think about...

Although until now there is no difference of the trust, you can always look up to their trust page and see the reference of the trust. It would give you a glimpse of how they gain the trust.
hero member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 525
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
August 29, 2018, 08:34:03 PM
#53
How about an overhaul to the trust system?

What I think of: members would submit evidence/reference of whatever they are accusing another member of for moderators to look in to and decide whether the member deserves to be tagged or not (more like how 'Report to moderator' works). It would go down like this:

1. Negative Trust: if evidence is verified as true, accused members will be tagged with a red trust (exactly like what it is right now). This will be primarily for scammers, Ponzi, HYIP or Pyramid schemes' creators and promoters, known alternatives of scammers and even wanna-be scammers (if evidence is solid);

2. Slightly Negative Trust: if evidence cannot be verified or hardly present, but moderators can see that the accused member is showing attitude or doing actions which sustain the evidence (i.e., a member who is explicitly attacking, flaming or accusing other members for no obvious reasons—I think this forum has a fair share of those). This will also be for account sellers and buyers, verified shills, members suspected of being scammers (no solid evidence), Trust abusers, Merit and Trust traders, etc.;

3. Neutral Trust: would stay the same as it is;

4. Slightly Positive Trust: trusted members giving their trust to other members (for good actions like doing something good for the forum or the members themselves, trying hard to clean this forum from scammers and spammers, or trusting with no evidence, etc.), moderators won't need to look much in to this;

5. Positive Trust: this will be for honest, reputable traders (whether it be currency exchange, physical or digital goods, etc.), bounty managers, services providers, moderators, etc. This still needs evidence to be provided and approved in order to be tagged.

Notes:
I know this will still annoy butt-hurt people like CoolWave and KingScorpio as it gives MOAR POWAAA to "corrupted" moderators, and we will see increased numbers of threads like this one.  
I know this will add a ton of work for the already busy moderators, so expanding the moderation team a little could help.
I know Trust abusers will find a way to manipulate the system. However, this might stop members from tagging each other unfairly.
I also know that this isn't perfect (nothing really is?), and would need suggestions and changes from other trusted members.    

Something like this would be good. But I would change a little: If you receive one negative feedback (from a DT member, obviously) you will have an orange mark (automatically); then to turn the mark red, the DT member will have to find another DT members to corroborate his feedback. It avoids persecution and situations like that where one person has enough power to destroy someone's reputation totally (what is the maxim of the centralization), generating controversies and inconsistencies.

And of course, a difference between the trust traders receive for making deals and trust people receive for being admired by others. This is a good point to think about...
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1218
Change is in your hands
August 29, 2018, 07:35:18 PM
#52
Quote
preferably limited only to Full member and above to avoid too much abuse) who they trust,

A far better idea would be to only allow members who have at least XX merit above their "Default" merit which was assigned to them to vote, this should keep things pretty fair.

Quote
By doing so the level of hierarchy would be avoided and there'll be no more bullying by DT1 members, but "bullying" by DT members will continue to exist.

"Damned if we do! Damned if we don't!" - Hilariousetc
legendary
Activity: 2383
Merit: 1551
dogs are cute.
August 29, 2018, 07:29:47 PM
#51
I think there shoud be a voting system for DT members to survive each month .
You mean something like this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;suggest
No. I think he means getting a list of every DT1 and DT2 members (like this provided you have default settings) and voting who deserves to remain in the list. Ideally it doesn't sound like a crazy idea, but it would be extremely difficult to avoid abuse (creating or buying accounts to vote) and keep it objective.
That page I linked is outdated, it would be a fairly decent idea if theymos updates the list with all the DT members, and ask from users above a specific rank(preferably limited only to Full member and above to avoid too much abuse) who they trust, and the ratings of others to be based on that. By doing so the level of hierarchy would be avoided and there'll be no more "bullying" by DT1 members, but "bullying" by DT members will continue to exist.  Roll Eyes
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