Turkish Central Bank Forbids use of cryptocurrencies as a mean of Exchange. - page 3.

fillippone

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Quote from: mindrust on April 16, 2021, 04:39:19 PM

Quote from: mindrust on April 16, 2021, 01:46:44 PM

We buy whatever we can to escape the Lira. This has been the case for many decades. Euro, Dollar, BTC, Gold, Real Estate, Land and even cars... as long as it is not the Lira that you are holding, you are good to go. None of these I mentioned however are as volatile as BTC (or crypto. many people are not investing in bitcoin tbh. They buy shitcoins) like I said during the next bear market many people will suicide here.

I think this is exactly how it will end for USD as well. After printing trillions of dollars out of thin air and people start to realize that their bank accounts are losing its buying power against goods very fast, they will want to spend them all on anything.

Inflation will trigger a snowballing effect and when everybody decides to get out at the same time, it will quickly become hyperinflation. The FED will either want to raise the rates and kill every market there is to stop the bleeding, or they will accept hyperinflation. Either way the future is ugly.

There is one little difference between the TRY and the USD.
Notwithstanding the huge amount of Brr, there is no better FIAT currency than USD. Surely not the EUR, nor the GBP (yet). CHF might be a better alternative, but the CHF economy is tiny and cannot hold the whole planetary demand.
If you cannot buy other stuff and you are caged in the FIAT pen, then USD is the place to be.

Bthd

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Quote from: fillippone on April 16, 2021, 05:17:58 AM

The Turkish Central Bank, worried about its citizens, prohibits them from using precious sats to buy things, and by law obliges them to hodl:

They are planning create a new tax system about cryptocurrencies so they have to control fiat money traffic at cryptocurrency exchanges.

Quote from: amishmanish on April 16, 2021, 10:09:41 AM

This is very similar to the move by the Reserve Bank of India back in 2018 when it prohibited all banks within India to stop giving service to any crypto based business. This meant that every exchange got shuttered and a lot of people sold off their holdings as they had no way to liquidate their crypto.

No, it's not similar. Central Bank just banned 3rd parties because they can not control fiat money traffic at 3rd parties. Sending/Receiving fiat money via bank accounts is still available. They didn't banned crypto exchanges, money transfers.

mindrust

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Quote from: mindrust on April 16, 2021, 01:46:44 PM

We buy whatever we can to escape the Lira. This has been the case for many decades. Euro, Dollar, BTC, Gold, Real Estate, Land and even cars... as long as it is not the Lira that you are holding, you are good to go. None of these I mentioned however are as volatile as BTC (or crypto. many people are not investing in bitcoin tbh. They buy shitcoins) like I said during the next bear market many people will suicide here.

I think this is exactly how it will end for USD as well. After printing trillions of dollars out of thin air and people start to realize that their bank accounts are losing its buying power against goods very fast, they will want to spend them all on anything.

Inflation will trigger a snowballing effect and when everybody decides to get out at the same time, it will quickly become hyperinflation. The FED will either want to raise the rates and kill every market there is to stop the bleeding, or they will accept hyperinflation. Either way the future is ugly.

teosanru

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Quote from: Gyfts on April 16, 2021, 04:01:12 PM

Quote from: teosanru on April 16, 2021, 03:49:18 PM

It's interesting to see that Turkey has come out with very generic guidelines. They have basically stopped anyone doing anything into cryptos and have even stopped everyone to create any business models around cryptocurrencies but this would hamper the growth of their blockchain industry too. Primarily also destroyed it as a medium of payment even in International Transactions. But here is a very interesting loophole at least for the investors/ traders that I have found:

Quote

(2) Payment and electronic money institutions cannot mediate on platforms offering trading, custody, transfer or issuance services regarding crypto assets or fund transfers from these platforms.

If we go by the literal explanation of these lines, this means that no exchange can be built up in Turkey and no person of turkey can operate an exchange or wallets. But there is no restriction on any person holding crypto in their private key wallets or in international exchanges. The law is applicable to the institutions and not the users of these institutions. Moreover, I cannot see the list of punishments in this circular? Is it that the defaulters will be tried under the Central Bank Act which already contains punishments.

The verbiage is clear, they want banks to have central authority on the currency in the country, and so anyone that establishes a competitor will be fined, or jailed. No one can stop anyone from using crypto, it's P2P. The whole idea of regulation is to scare people from mass adoption, and restricting companies from practicing freely. Realistically, most people need exchanges if they're going to turn their local currency into a crypto.

Turkey isn't the first country to do this. I noticed first world countries haven't been so explicit about banning crypto, but that's because they don't view crypto as a threat, yet.

I don't think in the current shape and form bitcoin is a big threat to the banks or fiat. 95% use cryptos and bitcoins only for investment holding and quick returns while rest 5% also don't transact with it on daily basis. So I don't think it's due to compeition. A more prominent reason could be liquidity. They would not want the liquidity of their currency to go out of the system as it could lead to devlation. Yes Scaring the people away is obviously the main idea and talking about companies, I don't really think a lot of companies outside US are looking at Bitcoin as an investment option.

Gyfts

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Quote from: teosanru on April 16, 2021, 03:49:18 PM

It's interesting to see that Turkey has come out with very generic guidelines. They have basically stopped anyone doing anything into cryptos and have even stopped everyone to create any business models around cryptocurrencies but this would hamper the growth of their blockchain industry too. Primarily also destroyed it as a medium of payment even in International Transactions. But here is a very interesting loophole at least for the investors/ traders that I have found:

Quote

(2) Payment and electronic money institutions cannot mediate on platforms offering trading, custody, transfer or issuance services regarding crypto assets or fund transfers from these platforms.

If we go by the literal explanation of these lines, this means that no exchange can be built up in Turkey and no person of turkey can operate an exchange or wallets. But there is no restriction on any person holding crypto in their private key wallets or in international exchanges. The law is applicable to the institutions and not the users of these institutions. Moreover, I cannot see the list of punishments in this circular? Is it that the defaulters will be tried under the Central Bank Act which already contains punishments.

The verbiage is clear, they want banks to have central authority on the currency in the country, and so anyone that establishes a competitor will be fined, or jailed. No one can stop anyone from using crypto, it's P2P. The whole idea of regulation is to scare people from mass adoption, and restricting companies from practicing freely. Realistically, most people need exchanges if they're going to turn their local currency into a crypo.

Turkey isn't the first country to do this. I noticed first world countries haven't been so explicit about banning crypto, but that's because they don't view crypto as a threat, yet.

Husires

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Did the report mention banning mining, dealing with the derivatives market, or speculating on bitcoin prices? I am lazy to read the details of the report. Tongue

Are there penalties for all violators and how will the conditions of companies that deal with Bitcoin?

Turkey is one of the countries that have frightening inflation, and the Central Bank has taken many steps to ensure that the value of the currency is not manipulated, which occurred several times during the last five years for political reasons.

This step will not be long-term and may be allowed to buy and sell again next year, although I would not be surprised if people continue to trade.

teosanru

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It's interesting to see that Turkey has come out with very generic guidelines. They have basically stopped anyone doing anything into cryptos and have even stopped everyone to create any business models around cryptocurrencies but this would hamper the growth of their blockchain industry too. Primarily also destroyed it as a medium of payment even in International Transactions. But here is a very interesting loophole at least for the investors/ traders that I have found:

Quote from: el kaka22 on April 16, 2021, 03:05:48 PM

We can't really know the main intention behind it, this is just a law that was put in place and there is no reasoning given. However as far as I know there was a big problem with the gambling using crpto as well, that seemed like a story a year ago or so, which is why I do not know if it is still a problem or not. But, I do assume that it could be a really big deal or not that caused this.

If Turkey has a lot of people who pay with crypto and deposit to casinos and gamble with it, and the government specifically banned gambling, that means people are using crypto to find loops around the law and use it as a means of exchange.

Not like we live in a world where we pay for our dinner with crypto, so it wasn't really a big means of exchange anyway, where do you really spend your crypto? And this law prohibits third parties to be middleman for crypto means of exchange as well, you are still free to do it directly from person to person as long as you do not use another company in between, doesn't sound like a big deal.

I think a random guess which I can make after the US Sanctions on Turkey and the long-time troubles with the Turkish Lira and its devaluation can be a problem. If people's faith over their fiat will reduce they will start to use another form of currencies especially cryptocurrencies which would lead to lower demand of their currency and further aggravating the problem. Basically, they are at very early stages of becoming another Zimbabwe and they definitely don't want to become one.

Vatimins

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Damn. I really feel bad for the turkish people who have spent many years in studying this industry and pouring their blood and sweat. All the hard work gome to waste(in a sense). Even the fruits of their labor cannot be enjoyed as much anymore due to this unfair action of the turkish government and bank. This is scary. I hope this never happens in my counrry ever.

el kaka22

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We can't really know the main intention behind it, this is just a law that was put in place and there is no reasoning given. However as far as I know there was a big problem with the gambling using crpto as well, that seemed like a story a year ago or so, which is why I do not know if it is still a problem or not. But, I do assume that it could be a really big deal or not that caused this.

If Turkey has a lot of people who pay with crypto and deposit to casinos and gamble with it, and the government specifically banned gambling, that means people are using crypto to find loops around the law and use it as a means of exchange.

Not like we live in a world where we pay for our dinner with crypto, so it wasn't really a big means of exchange anyway, where do you really spend your crypto? And this law prohibits third parties to be middleman for crypto means of exchange as well, you are still free to do it directly from person to person as long as you do not use another company in between, doesn't sound like a big deal.

CryptocurencyKing

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Turkish government are very much aware of the panic they can create with a ban statement and from observation with nations that have tried to ban bitcoin within there jurisdiction, it oftens turns out that, the citizens tends to purchase even more. There would be those that panic and sell off but then, there is always buyers that would be very open to deals within the same nation.

The Turkish government are aware of this fact and as such, they came up with a tricky theory or should I say a decorated ban statement by not directly banning citizens from its acquisition but rather, its use for exchange. Now tell me, of what use is a currency if it isn't used for exchange? Cryptocurrency is already having a had time being used as a medium of exchange due to high fees and gere is a proposed law to further hinder it from attaining this currency value.

Here us a scheme that leads to a more greater conspiracy scheme and it would be best should the crypto community keep doing what they've been doing. A ban or restriction isn't what would save a nation from economic crisis.

consar

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my guess is this ban is a countermeasure against current illegal gambling and betting epidemic in turkey. they were using legal payment processors to exchange their illegal liras into bitcoins.

mindrust

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Quote from: fillippone on April 16, 2021, 12:31:12 PM

Quote from: mindrust on April 16, 2021, 11:11:01 AM

When the crypto goes south, and every once in a while it does, it will be disastrous for many Turkish people. Most of these guys have no clue about any risk management. They haven't invested in any stocks in their life before. They all jumped to bitcoin.

I see your point, but it's not jumping into Bitcoin, it's jumping OUT TRY, which is a sinking boat.
I bet they would be happy to buy dollars too, but cash dollars Is difficult to find I am afraid, hence the use of Bitcoin.

We buy whatever we can to escape the Lira. This has been the case for many decades. Euro, Dollar, BTC, Gold, Real Estate, Land and even cars... as long as it is not the Lira that you are holding, you are good to go. None of these I mentioned however are as volatile as BTC (or crypto. many people are not investing in bitcoin tbh. They buy shitcoins) like I said during the next bear market many people will suicide here.

Argoo

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Quote from: avikz on April 16, 2021, 08:08:04 AM

That was expected from any central bank. Banking lobby is dead against bitcoin for a good reason- their own existence! Bitcoin has indeed challenged the banks and showd the common man that bank is not needed if you want to control your own money! So it's no wonder that central banks from many countries have issued directives against bitcoin and its usage. Even the central bank in my country have done the same. But did that hurt bitcoin? Not at all!

In addition, the growing price of bitcoin and of the entire cryptocurrency is now alarming the banking system. Indeed, an increasing amount of capital is being invested in cryptocurrency, and this can begin to affect the existing global financial system. On the other hand, the rise in the price of cryptocurrency increases the risk of loss of investment for citizens due to their mistakes and ordinary stupidity. Governments, of course, will not stand aloof from this process for long. Therefore, the regulation of cryptocurrency on their part will grow. Outright bans, as in the case of Turkey, are not the best way to do this. But, at the same time, cryptocurrency is now rarely used as a means of payment.

wxa7115

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The government of Turkey is trying to protect their currency, that is all there is to it, for now they are just forbidding the use of bitcoin as a means of exchange but it is not going to take long before they ban any kind of transaction that includes bitcoin, am I surprised by this? Not really, this is to be expected, it seems that governments have a script they follow no matter what when their currency begins to fail.

And the government of Turkey is following the script to the letter, if the current economic situation in Turkey keeps going in the direction that is going I will not be surprised if gold and silver become forbidden as well and even the use of any other currency like the dollar or the euro as the government tries to force people to accept their currency no matter what.

fillippone

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on April 16, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

And man, we have a very strong and vocal Turkish community here on bitcointalk. I'm not sure if they post often in the English section about issues like this, but I'd like to hear from some of them on this particular issue. But assuming this is law, it really sucks for the bitcoiners of Turkey--and I do hope that this shit doesn't become a trend.

I posted a message on their local board warning about this thread. Hopefully, they will pop here to give us a local touch on this subject.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Ucy on April 16, 2021, 06:07:40 AM

Can a bank forbid people from exchanging goods and services for any kind of reward?

That's kind of the question I have, not being familiar with Turkey or its government structure. This regulation/prohibition was, from what I see here, issued by the central bank of Turkey. Can anyone shed some light on how much power they have?

And man, we have a very strong and vocal Turkish community here on bitcointalk. I'm not sure if they post often in the English section about issues like this, but I'd like to hear from some of them on this particular issue. But assuming this is law, it really sucks for the bitcoiners of Turkey--and I do hope that this shit doesn't become a trend.

fillippone

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Quote from: mindrust on April 16, 2021, 11:11:01 AM

When the crypto goes south, and every once in a while it does, it will be disastrous for many Turkish people. Most of these guys have no clue about any risk management. They haven't invested in any stocks in their life before. They all jumped to bitcoin.

I see your point, but it's not jumping into Bitcoin, it's jumping OUT TRY, which is a sinking boat.
I bet they would be happy to buy dollars too, but cash dollars Is difficult to find I am afraid, hence the use of Bitcoin.

LUCKMCFLY

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Apparently this is turning into a possible political war, as one of the main Turkish opponents has become very Pro-Bitcoin, although it is not a bad thing, they want everyone to win their part and get the best victory, but in terms from money can everything happen:

Turkey’s Main Opposition Leader Waves the Bitcoin Flag

Quote

“I met with different stakeholders all day. Blockchain and crypto are the only areas where our $1 billion (Unicorn) ventures will emerge,” Kılıçdaroğlu said.

He then accused Turkey’s ruling government of hitting financial technology startups. “They have no tolerance for young people. No no no!” – Kılıçdaroğlu said.

Source: https://www.trustnodes.com/2021/04/16/turkeys-main-opposition-leader-waves-the-bitcoin-flag

jrrsparkles

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Some country's central bank tried to ban bitcoins even when their government allows their citizens to use cryptocurrency. So banks are keen about not letting their people to achieve economic freedom which is another eye opener for the people all around the world about banks, they are not helping you they just wanted to keep you poor.

so98nn

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Your last paragraph is touchy! That is why Satoshi made the bitcoin in first place so as to free the citizens in his lil world! Today government is afraid that bitcoin like asset/currency can destroy the way people are transacting in the country. Most of the criminal activities to the money laundering of actor or politician is done through the crypto only and thus the use is ever growing.

Whenever there is news like this central authority banned bitcoin and that government is regulating the bitcoin, then it only means that it's time to laugh on them. How on the earth they gonna ban it fully? By taking down the exchanger? No prob! We have P2P's to work with. By taking down the P2P services? No prob, people can work around the public place and exchange the coins. That's really funny yet amazing world introduced by Mr. Satoshi! Respect!

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