Topic: Turkish Central Bank Forbids use of cryptocurrencies as a mean of Exchange. - page 4. (Read 705 times)
April 16, 2021, 10:31:24 AM
This is controlling people's money indirectly by peddling the front that they are 'worried' about their citizens but all they want to do is contain bitcoin within their borders. They have completely ran out of ideas to control their massive inflation rate and they are turning towards other assets that they think will save the plunging economy. I don't know why would they prohibit bitcoin payments in the first place if those weren't even huge in Turkey given that most are into bitcoin for speculative reasons. Anyhow, this wouldn't solve any problems Turkey has at hand, and will only garner negative feedback from its citizens in the long run.
April 16, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
At the end, you need to use your crypo to buy and sell stuff.
Remember we are talking about a double digit inflation economy, so cryptos are used to protect your purchasing power in a very short timeframe, rather than hodling for the future.
Remember we are talking about a double digit inflation economy, so cryptos are used to protect your purchasing power in a very short timeframe, rather than hodling for the future.
While not necessarily for everyone, I'm really not sure in the case of Turkey. They don't necessarily need to spend the crypto to pay for things(even with the case of having a bad economy); I'm guessing that they're just going to convert the crypto to fiat and immediately use the fiat to pay. Not sure if that still falls under the "means of exchange" category though, because I don't know crap about laws and stuff. Feel free to enlighten me.
April 16, 2021, 10:11:01 AM
Wow, mate, I do agree with the premises (crypto is not for the dumb people) but I strongly disagree with the conclusions ( government does the right thing protecting the dumb citizens): I think I want everybody should be held accountable for his own choices.
Turkish people are already dead poor. The minimum wage is like 400 bucks. I see people selling their homes and cars and going all-in with bitcoin. There is no way I can support this behavior. I hate the governments as much as the next guy but I also think people shouldn't be allowed to mass suicide.
When the crypto goes south, and every once in a while it does, it will be disastrous for many Turkish people. Most of these guys have no clue about any risk management. They haven't invested in any stocks in their life before. They all jumped to bitcoin.
April 16, 2021, 09:09:41 AM
This is very similar to the move by the Reserve Bank of India back in 2018 when it prohibited all banks within India to stop giving service to any crypto based business. This meant that every exchange got shuttered and a lot of people sold off their holdings as they had no way to liquidate their crypto.
I don't know about Turkey but in India, that prohibition only meant that the fiat on-off ramps stopped existing. You could still hold crypto and do what you want with it. A lot of people who were only interested in day-trading sold off but some people kept their crypto. In 2020, a petition filed by those exchanges won in the Supreme court and this prohibition from RBI was termed illegal. Lately, there have been wide speculation about a parliamentary legislation though.
Turkey seems to be going through the same paces. People won't be able to buy and sell directly but you can still keep Bitcoin. Good time to reorganize all the P2P stuff. There are a lot of people from the Turkish community and i suppose we will start seeing an uptick in the marketplace involving Turkish businesses.
I don't know about Turkey but in India, that prohibition only meant that the fiat on-off ramps stopped existing. You could still hold crypto and do what you want with it. A lot of people who were only interested in day-trading sold off but some people kept their crypto. In 2020, a petition filed by those exchanges won in the Supreme court and this prohibition from RBI was termed illegal. Lately, there have been wide speculation about a parliamentary legislation though.
Turkey seems to be going through the same paces. People won't be able to buy and sell directly but you can still keep Bitcoin. Good time to reorganize all the P2P stuff. There are a lot of people from the Turkish community and i suppose we will start seeing an uptick in the marketplace involving Turkish businesses.
April 16, 2021, 08:47:52 AM
I think they want to control Bitcoin and crypto currency transactions by bank account only so they can put tax rules later, this looks like a preparation for taxation.
Buying and selling crypto currencies are not banned, Turkish exchanges are still working and they have huge volume. When you check rule 4.2, you can't use 3rd parties like Papara, Ininal etc. to withdraw your money from exchanges after 30 April.
Buying real estate, cars or çiğ köfte/lahmacun/kebap
with crypto currencies is not possible anymore. I don't expect this rule to stay forever though, they may change it later.
Buying and selling crypto currencies are not banned, Turkish exchanges are still working and they have huge volume. When you check rule 4.2, you can't use 3rd parties like Papara, Ininal etc. to withdraw your money from exchanges after 30 April.
Buying real estate, cars or çiğ köfte/lahmacun/kebap
with crypto currencies is not possible anymore. I don't expect this rule to stay forever though, they may change it later. 
April 16, 2021, 08:21:40 AM
good luck to the central back on controlling it...
April 16, 2021, 08:11:08 AM
So what they are saying between the lines is this : We the government have to have full control over your wealth and the information on how you are spending and using that wealth. We want to know where your wealth are going and how much taxes we can milk from you.
You are also a criminal if you spend any bitcoins or Crypto currencies, because we should control everything. (Actually, we do not want any competition to our fiat currency the Turkish lira)
You can still pay someone with a horse or a chicken in a barter arrangement, but no barter in Crypto currencies.
We = their government
You are also a criminal if you spend any bitcoins or Crypto currencies, because we should control everything. (Actually, we do not want any competition to our fiat currency the Turkish lira)
You can still pay someone with a horse or a chicken in a barter arrangement, but no barter in Crypto currencies.
We = their government
April 16, 2021, 07:58:25 AM
What a shitty move by the Turkish government. Any proper explanation as to why they did this? Why are they "worried" about their citizen lol. Almost every citizen that invests or gets involved with bitcoin knows what they are doing. Why does the government has to be concerned about what their people are doing "willingly"?
So banned only as a mean of exchange for goods and services only? This means they can do p2p transactions? And maybe sell their coins instantly for fiat and buy the goods and services?
So banned only as a mean of exchange for goods and services only? This means they can do p2p transactions? And maybe sell their coins instantly for fiat and buy the goods and services?
April 16, 2021, 07:51:18 AM
I guess it isn't THAT bad compared to the headlines I've been seeing on social media. If I understand correctly — using cryptocurrencies for buying/selling stuff is what's forbidden, not necessarily buying/selling of cryptocurrencies. Not sure how well adopted cryptocurrencies are on Turkey in terms of merchant adoption though.
At the end, you need to use your crypo to buy and sell stuff.
Remember we are talking about a double digit inflation economy, so cryptos are used to protect your purchasing power in a very short timeframe, rather than hodling for the future.
<...>
Wow, mate, I do agree with the premises (crypto is not for the dumb people) but I strongly disagree with the conclusions ( government does the right thing protecting the dumb citizens): I think I want everybody should be held accountable for his own choices. 
April 16, 2021, 07:28:46 AM
I guess it isn't THAT bad compared to the headlines I've been seeing on social media. If I understand correctly — using cryptocurrencies for buying/selling stuff is what's forbidden, not necessarily buying/selling of cryptocurrencies.
If we go by the wording they've chosen exchange too fall into that category so you are not banned from selling buying cryptos but you are banned from sending money in and out, which is essentially the same.
- The Bitcoin ban. Impossible, how can it prevent two private citizens from exchanging cryptocurrencies? Among other things, Turkey is a country with a huge underground economy, certainly, those who want to pay in black are not frightened by this measure.
Let's be realistic on this, bitcoin was not used in daily deals that didn't involve trading on a large scale, and there are limitations, 400k daily transactions for the entire globe and a current 8$ fee for a tx, which is close to the average daily income for them. Seriously, you really believe some employees on the black market pay the wages in coins there? They will stick to cash if not their useless garbage EURO and USD, I had no problem in Turkey paying directly with cash euros, not even converting them.
What they achieved is killing local exchanges, people that trade on international exchanges will be warier, and some of them who know they would be in more trouble due to the source of the money will simply quit.
Now let's see how those millions of supposed turkish users will react, the last time there were claims of tens of million holding coins which I always thought to be impossible.
April 16, 2021, 07:19:01 AM
I guess it isn't THAT bad compared to the headlines I've been seeing on social media. If I understand correctly — using cryptocurrencies for buying/selling stuff is what's forbidden, not necessarily buying/selling of cryptocurrencies. Not sure how well adopted cryptocurrencies are on Turkey in terms of merchant adoption though.
it seems that you are right, and markets overreacted in the first place, but we will have to wait to see how the situation will develop
people are not forced to sell or anything, they are just banned from using the crypto directly for purchase, and that is a rare situation at the moment, they could exchange their crypto through exchange and than use fiat
agree, not that bad as looked on first social network reaction
April 16, 2021, 07:08:04 AM
That was expected from any central bank. Banking lobby is dead against bitcoin for a good reason- their own existence! Bitcoin has indeed challenged the banks and showd the common man that bank is not needed if you want to control your own money! So it's no wonder that central banks from many countries have issued directives against bitcoin and its usage. Even the central bank in my country have done the same. But did that hurt bitcoin? Not at all!
April 16, 2021, 05:23:21 AM
I guess it isn't THAT bad compared to the headlines I've been seeing on social media. If I understand correctly — using cryptocurrencies for buying/selling stuff is what's forbidden, not necessarily buying/selling of cryptocurrencies. Not sure how well adopted cryptocurrencies are on Turkey in terms of merchant adoption though.
April 16, 2021, 05:07:40 AM
Can a bank forbid people from exchanging goods and services for any kind of reward? If a citizen chooses to be rewarded in his/her community's tokens or with other assets... they mean the citizen has broken his country's law ?
Well, people could build Decentralized networks/systems/applications that can help "governments" regulate and earn from them without letting the governments violent their good ideals/principles. People who use them to commit serious crimes could lose their right to be protected by the network, or their rights to the benefit from the ideals.
Well, people could build Decentralized networks/systems/applications that can help "governments" regulate and earn from them without letting the governments violent their good ideals/principles. People who use them to commit serious crimes could lose their right to be protected by the network, or their rights to the benefit from the ideals.
April 16, 2021, 05:00:26 AM
The reasons are pretty valid imo. Yes the blockchain transactions are irreversible and once you get scammed by a person, there will be no 3rd party to help you and reverse the transaction. Credit Card companies like VISA and MC can help you in these situations, you find nobody when you use a crypto currency. Also, I know most people are way more stupid than what they think they are and in this situation the government is basically protecting them from their own stupidity. This crypto stuff is not suitable for dumb people.
The state simply don't want to deal with these cases that will consume too much resources and in the end it will lead no nothing.
The state simply don't want to deal with these cases that will consume too much resources and in the end it will lead no nothing.
April 16, 2021, 04:45:57 AM
Seriously, what does the Turkish government want to achieve?
I think that 1 Bitcoin is currently worth around 486,920 TRY, and 1 TRY is worth $0.12.
Turkey annual inflation was above 16% in March, meaning that situation with Turkish Lira is not looking good and inflation will hit them even harder so they are just afraid of losing control, and they banned Bitcoin and crypto as payment option but it affected global crypto market in a bad way for sure.
I don't think many people are actually using Bitcoin for payment in Turkey and in other parts of the world (because of higher fees) but some other altcoins (read BCH) may be affected much more with this.
We are also starting to hear some news about weapons preparing for new war around Turkey, and situation with inflation is similar and even worse in other countries around the world, so we may see some new regulations and bans soon.
April 16, 2021, 04:17:58 AM
For the first time in history Turkish Central bank forbid his citizen to spend their Bitcoins, introducing the :
State Hodl!
The Turkish Central Bank, worried about its citizens, prohibits them from using precious sats to buy things, and by law obliges them to hodl:
https://twitter.com/DocumentingBTC/status/1382830629700595712?s=20
Below is the detail of the provision:
https://www.resmigazete.gov.tr/eskiler/2021/04/20210416-4.htm
A good reporting by Reuters:
Turkey bans crypto payments citing risks, hits Bitcoin price
They report on the crypto markets in Turkey:
Let's remember what country Turkey is giving a few details of the economy.
Turkish Currency (TRY) vs Dollar Chart:
Turkish Inflation Chart:
If you start thinking think about what it means to have double-digit inflation, you immediately understand why the volumes in the Exchange are not subjected to KYC have been consistently high in Turkey over the last years:
Turkish citizens aren't trying to get rich quickly speculating on virtual currencies, but are trying not to get poor slowly getting robbed by inflation.
Seriously, what does the Turkish government want to achieve?
I think a good summary could be the following: "They do not hate what bitcoin does, they hate what bitcoin represents".
BITCOIN IS A TROJAN HORSE FOR FREEDOM
State Hodl!
The Turkish Central Bank, worried about its citizens, prohibits them from using precious sats to buy things, and by law obliges them to hodl:
https://twitter.com/DocumentingBTC/status/1382830629700595712?s=20
Below is the detail of the provision:
https://www.resmigazete.gov.tr/eskiler/2021/04/20210416-4.htm
A good reporting by Reuters:
Turkey bans crypto payments citing risks, hits Bitcoin price
They report on the crypto markets in Turkey:
Quote
Crypto trading volumes in Turkey hit 218 billion lira ($27 billion) from early February to 24 March, up from just over 7 billion lira in the same period a year earlier, according to data from U.S. researcher Chainalysis analysed by Reuters.
Cryptocurrency worth 23 billion lira was traded in the first few days after Erdogan shocked markets by ousting the central bank chief last month, the data showed, versus 1 billion lira in the whole of March 2020.
Cryptocurrency worth 23 billion lira was traded in the first few days after Erdogan shocked markets by ousting the central bank chief last month, the data showed, versus 1 billion lira in the whole of March 2020.
Let's remember what country Turkey is giving a few details of the economy.
Turkish Currency (TRY) vs Dollar Chart:
Turkish Inflation Chart:
If you start thinking think about what it means to have double-digit inflation, you immediately understand why the volumes in the Exchange are not subjected to KYC have been consistently high in Turkey over the last years:
Turkish citizens aren't trying to get rich quickly speculating on virtual currencies, but are trying not to get poor slowly getting robbed by inflation.
Seriously, what does the Turkish government want to achieve?
- The Bitcoin ban. Impossible, how can it prevent two private citizens from exchanging cryptocurrencies? Among other things, Turkey is a country with a huge underground economy, certainly, those who want to pay in black are not frightened by this measure.
- Have total control of the Ramp on/off mechanisms. By allowing only banks to legally exchange Bitcoins, the government hopes to have control of all cryptocurrency holders for any subsequent "actions". I already see it more likely. Even if for the reasons mentioned above, I always find it difficult.
- Other ideas?
I think a good summary could be the following: "They do not hate what bitcoin does, they hate what bitcoin represents".
BITCOIN IS A TROJAN HORSE FOR FREEDOM
Quote
So, while, yes, Bitcoin gives anyone — regardless of their nationality, status, wealth, gender, race or beliefs — access to the best savings technology on the planet, it also gives them unstoppable, programmable money that cannot be debased or censored and that fights surveillance and confiscation. Dissidents, democracy protestors, opposition leaders and independent journalists worldwide are beginning to realize this, from Minsk to Lagos to Los Angeles to Buenos Aires.
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