This may be a dumb idea, but why not have nefario provide goat with a list of BTC addresses linked as a deposit address to the user's GLBSE account and a share count.
Then there's no liability for goat - as if they lose control of their GLBSE account then they're in exactly the same position as if they'd lost control of it BEFORE goat was delisted (the unauthorised user can sell shares/withdraw BTC). All liability after goat sends the funds then rests with GLBSE -as it would have done had he been paying by their dividend mechanism. And the block-chain allows verification of whether funds were actually sent.
Topic: TYGRR.* assets on GLBSE delisted. - page 4. (Read 33293 times)
Message sent to Nefario:
1) The problem with this solution is that accepting liability may not mean he actually makes good on that liability. Goat would actually have to pay out funds relying on Nefario to make good on his acceptance of liability. It's not clear that this acceptance would be binding on the asset holders either, so if Nefario reneges, Goat could still be left with liability. So Goat can only redeem based on this acceptance of liability if he believes Nefario will make good on it. (And how would this even work? Someone goes to Goat with a code, Goat sends them to Nefario saying the code is not on his list. Nefario says "that's a made up code that I never issued". They now go back to Goat and complain that Nefario lied and they were in fact issued that code. Does Nefario have to make good on this? If not, how does Goat know Nefario didn't steal the asset? If so, an unlimited number of people can scam Nefario and he'd have no choice but to renege on his acceptance.)Quote
Ok, one last thing. If you don't want a scammer tag, you need to agree to do/implement one of the following:
1) Publicly agree to accept ALL liability for double-spent codes and codes that Goat may not have, but were issued anyway.
2) Recall all of the codes and reissue some kind of private keys, giving the public key list (with their corresponding claim codes from before) to Goat. Personally, I suggest using Bitcoin private keys:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1240911
3) Come to an agreement with Goat to relist his assets.
You have one week to announce one of these options or similar, and one month to implement it. If you need more time than that, let me know along with the reason why.
1) Publicly agree to accept ALL liability for double-spent codes and codes that Goat may not have, but were issued anyway.
2) Recall all of the codes and reissue some kind of private keys, giving the public key list (with their corresponding claim codes from before) to Goat. Personally, I suggest using Bitcoin private keys:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1240911
3) Come to an agreement with Goat to relist his assets.
You have one week to announce one of these options or similar, and one month to implement it. If you need more time than that, let me know along with the reason why.
2) The problem with this solution is that that's just another unilateral imposition of a broken redemption scheme on Goat, just a slightly less broken one. It still causes substantially the same problems. Two people can still come to Goat with possession of the same private key. Goat still has to decide whether to redeem twice or once. If twice, he's still getting massive liability crammed down his throat that he never agreed to accept. If once, then he's still taking the risk of being branded a scammer if Nefario issues the same code to two people, and he'll never even know whether it was Nefario or the claimant is lying. (Consider the same scenario as in 1 above.)
So two of your proposed solutions can't work. I don't think anyone has any business trying to coerce either side into accepting specific solutions and there's no sense in pressuring one side to agree to a solution the other side won't agree to -- how does that help? If they can't *agree* on a solution, we need to evaluate whether that's because either of them is scamming. (Unless Goat agreed to 1 and 2 above, in which case, he's a fool, but congrats on brilliant mediating. But if he didn't, what good is getting Nefario to agree to things Goat will, and should, never agree to?)
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was just a bad decision on your part. But several people have already told me privately that they believe you are conspiring with Nefario to appear to pressure him into an agreement that we all know Goat won't accept to shift the blame to Goat. I hope that's not true and that this was just an honest lapse in judgment.
Message sent to Nefario:
Quote
Ok, one last thing. If you don't want a scammer tag, you need to agree to do/implement one of the following:
1) Publicly agree to accept ALL liability for double-spent codes and codes that Goat may not have, but were issued anyway.
2) Recall all of the codes and reissue some kind of private keys, giving the public key list (with their corresponding claim codes from before) to Goat. Personally, I suggest using Bitcoin private keys:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1240911
3) Come to an agreement with Goat to relist his assets.
You have one week to announce one of these options or similar, and one month to implement it. If you need more time than that, let me know along with the reason why.
1) Publicly agree to accept ALL liability for double-spent codes and codes that Goat may not have, but were issued anyway.
2) Recall all of the codes and reissue some kind of private keys, giving the public key list (with their corresponding claim codes from before) to Goat. Personally, I suggest using Bitcoin private keys:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1240911
3) Come to an agreement with Goat to relist his assets.
You have one week to announce one of these options or similar, and one month to implement it. If you need more time than that, let me know along with the reason why.
Yes bitcoin can solve the entire issue of double spending of the codes since thats what it was invented for 
How does he *prove* he got a double code usage? If he does this, someone can just submit a code twice using an accomplice and then accuse Goat of scamming.
Heh. This is starting to sound like the problem that a certain P2P currency that I heard about solves. In fact, that's brilliant! There could be a meta-chain that allows multiple "currencies" to be created by anybody that accepts any of the "currencies" that use it as inputs and outputs to a transaction. For example:[input 1]: 10 BTC (from the buyer of the shares)
[input 2]: 100 ExComp.A (from the seller of the shares)
[output 1]: 100 ExComp.A (to the buyer of the shares)
[output 2]: 10 BTC (to the seller of the shares)
Come to think of it, this could even be hacked into Bitcoin with 51% miner support via OP_DROP to indicate the name of the share and making each share worth 1 satoshi (for the purpose of backwords compatibility). Imagine, sending a dividend would be as simple as sending BTC to the same address that controlled the share during the block # that dividends were scheduled for. God, I LOVE Bitcoin!
Anyway, all that aside, I see your point. Nefario should recall all of the codes and reissue Bitcoin private keys (in Sipa Wallet Import Format), instead (just because that will require the least amount of new software for people to install). Goat should then be sent the corresponding Bitcoin addresses. In fact, because they are all actual Bitcoin addresses, he can start sending dividends right away! Changes in ownership/address can be done with Bitcoin address signed messages, and should be encouraged immediately after people get the private key from GLBSE. These messages can then be posted publicly and/or sent to a timestamping service (of which Bitcoin, itself, can be used as via one of the websites that do that).
Thank you for showing me the error of my ways.
It seems like we're not making any progess... How will this be resolved?
Maybe they should hire someone to lie that everything is rosy while the site goes down the toilet. Would that make you feel better ?
Dude, you have some very serious issues.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Maybe they should hire someone to lie that everything is rosy while the site goes down the toilet. Would that make you feel better ?
Dude, you have some very serious issues.
You are a hypocrit. After all your jumping up and down abpout ponzi schemes and your character assassination of usagi you let an asset list that is both a ponzi and a usagi asset.
While I am not generally in the practice of defending the herpes-covered reprobate that is Mircea Ceaușescu, I would prefer a hypocrite to a moron. Besides, what does this have to do with GLBSE being a house of cards under management by an epileptic dwarf?
Because they are using these threads to advertise their own exchange. You dont see the cryptostocks guy here mentioning cryptostocks at every opportunity do you ?
Unfortunately glbse shareholders are held hostage as much as anyone else in this situation.
What we should really be worried about is that there isn't even a hint of GLBSE PR. Mircea can go around and say that his exchange is the best. Whether or not MPex is the best is irrelevant because there's no competition.
Is GLBSE going to be here next month? Next year?
At the very least, Mircea (or at least the MPOEPR account) doesn't give me the impression that they will go into hiding at first sign of trouble...
Maybe they should hire someone to lie that everything is rosy while the site goes down the toilet. Would that make you feel better ?
I only asked that it be sent to theymos as a reference. Theymos is not in charge of this investigation. Additionally, I did not ask for the previous communications. I only asked that a NEW email be sent to Nefario that included the address that would be CC'd to us. I needed proof that Goat wasn't just lying about having sent the address, since Nefario told me that the address he was sent wasn't validating.
I don't understand. How would copies of new communications tell you if Goat was lying about having sent the address? I can understand why Goat thought you wanted copies of previous communications -- how could copies of future communications tell you if he was lying or not?There is a dispute over whether Goat sent Nefario an address or not. If you're investigating that dispute, you would naturally want copies of past emails. If you aren't investigating that incident, why would a ban threat for lying come up?
I'm very, very confused now.
Unless there's some strange technical problem, either Nefario or Goat is lying about having sent an address. Goat says he did. Nefario says he didn't. Are you investigating this past dispute to see who was lying?
I care about solving problems, not banning people or marking them as scammers. Besides, those take too much paperwork.
What we should really be worried about is that there isn't even a hint of GLBSE PR. Mircea can go around and say that his exchange is the best. Whether or not MPex is the best is irrelevant because there's no competition.
Is GLBSE going to be here next month? Next year?
At the very least, Mircea (or at least the MPOEPR account) doesn't give me the impression that they will go into hiding at first sign of trouble...
Is GLBSE going to be here next month? Next year?
At the very least, Mircea (or at least the MPOEPR account) doesn't give me the impression that they will go into hiding at first sign of trouble...
Mr. P is mostly reachable on IRC. I'm just the girl in the pic <---.
You are a hypocrit. After all your jumping up and down abpout ponzi schemes and your character assassination of usagi you let an asset list that is both a ponzi and a usagi asset.
While I am not generally in the practice of defending the herpes-covered reprobate that is Mircea Ceaușescu, I would prefer a hypocrite to a moron. Besides, what does this have to do with GLBSE being a house of cards under management by an epileptic dwarf?
Because they are using these threads to advertise their own exchange. You dont see the cryptostocks guy here mentioning cryptostocks at every opportunity do you ?
Unfortunately glbse shareholders are held hostage as much as anyone else in this situation.
What we should really be worried about is that there isn't even a hint of GLBSE PR. Mircea can go around and say that his exchange is the best. Whether or not MPex is the best is irrelevant because there's no competition.
Is GLBSE going to be here next month? Next year?
At the very least, Mircea (or at least the MPOEPR account) doesn't give me the impression that they will go into hiding at first sign of trouble...
You are a hypocrit. After all your jumping up and down abpout ponzi schemes and your character assassination of usagi you let an asset list that is both a ponzi and a usagi asset.
While I am not generally in the practice of defending the herpes-covered reprobate that is Mircea Ceaușescu, I would prefer a hypocrite to a moron. Besides, what does this have to do with GLBSE being a house of cards under management by an epileptic dwarf?
Because they are using these threads to advertise their own exchange. You dont see the cryptostocks guy here mentioning cryptostocks at every opportunity do you ?
Unfortunately glbse shareholders are held hostage as much as anyone else in this situation.
You could use a broker site like coinbr or a broker-person like Brendio, smickles, buncha others, you know this?
I did not know that, as a matter of fact. It's hard to get information about MPex other than you are a "pornographer" - not really relevant.
What is this coinbr site? Is it operational?
MPEX is not immune to the current market collapse either.
http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=B.MPCD.A
The current market is MPEx. The current GLBSE collapse is relevant strictly to GLBSE and possibly to this forum.
You are a hypocrit. After all your jumping up and down abpout ponzi schemes and your character assassination of usagi you let an asset list that is both a ponzi and a usagi asset.
What exactly am I missing here ?
Hypocrite is not usually spelled your way, and a CDO is a CDO. It doesn't "list an asset". What character assassination and in general wtf are you on about man?!
You are a hypocrit. After all your jumping up and down abpout ponzi schemes and your character assassination of usagi you let an asset list that is both a ponzi and a usagi asset.
While I am not generally in the practice of defending the herpes-covered reprobate that is Mircea Ceaușescu, I would prefer a hypocrite to a moron. Besides, what does this have to do with GLBSE being a house of cards under management by an epileptic dwarf?
You could use a broker site like coinbr or a broker-person like Brendio, smickles, buncha others, you know this?
I did not know that, as a matter of fact. It's hard to get information about MPex other than you are a "pornographer" - not really relevant.
What is this coinbr site? Is it operational?
MPEX is not immune to the current market collapse either.
http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=B.MPCD.A
The current market is MPEx. The current GLBSE collapse is relevant strictly to GLBSE and possibly to this forum.
You are a hypocrit. After all your jumping up and down abpout ponzi schemes and your character assassination of usagi you let an asset list that is both a ponzi and a usagi asset.
What exactly am I missing here ?
You could use a broker site like coinbr or a broker-person like Brendio, smickles, buncha others, you know this?
I did not know that, as a matter of fact. It's hard to get information about MPex other than you are a "pornographer" - not really relevant.
What is this coinbr site? Is it operational?
MPEX is not immune to the current market collapse either.
http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=B.MPCD.A
The current market is MPEx. The current GLBSE collapse is relevant strictly to GLBSE and possibly to this forum.
You could use a broker site like coinbr or a broker-person like Brendio, smickles, buncha others, you know this?
I did not know that, as a matter of fact. It's hard to get information about MPex other than you are a "pornographer" - not really relevant.
What is this coinbr site? Is it operational?
MPEX is not immune to the current market collapse either.
http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=B.MPCD.A
This thread has clearly shown me that I shouldn't trust:
GLBSE
Nefario
Bitcointalk.org staff
Maged in particular (but I didn't trust Maged already)
GLBSE
Nefario
Bitcointalk.org staff
Maged in particular (but I didn't trust Maged already)
You shouldn't trust anyone. However, you should distrust this list. Put a "scammer" tag on in your head, or inject custom CSS with their posts.
This is a clusterfuck from all angles. Goat screwed up to a certain degree, and his attitude1 encouraged all of the above into believing that a) he was wrong and b) he would be easily pushed into some sort of settlement that was not in his best interest.
Nefario is inept and incompetent. He is in way over his head and if GLBSE continues to do business, it will merely continue its trend to being the Silk Road of BTC "security exchanges"2 or blow up completely. It should not continue to exist.
The staff should not be dictating policy of BTC businesses. This ticket system is moronic. How do you value an asset that can no longer be exchanged?
As I read it, and I am ready to be corrected, Nefario and the forum staff have colluded to put goat out of business.
1. Yes, he is a prick. But if we don't defend pricks, then, well, you run the risk of monster pricks being really, really big pricks.
2. Quotes for irony.
Unless all the decent mining operations setup their own separate site to manage shareholders that is a bad idea and would lead to even worse outcomes.
What idea? I am not making a proposal. I am predicting the future.
This thread has clearly shown me that I shouldn't trust:
GLBSE
Nefario
Bitcointalk.org staff
Maged in particular (but I didn't trust Maged already)
GLBSE
Nefario
Bitcointalk.org staff
Maged in particular (but I didn't trust Maged already)
You shouldn't trust anyone. However, you should distrust this list. Put a "scammer" tag on in your head, or inject custom CSS with their posts.
This is a clusterfuck from all angles. Goat screwed up to a certain degree, and his attitude1 encouraged all of the above into believing that a) he was wrong and b) he would be easily pushed into some sort of settlement that was not in his best interest.
Nefario is inept and incompetent. He is in way over his head and if GLBSE continues to do business, it will merely continue its trend to being the Silk Road of BTC "security exchanges"2 or blow up completely. It should not continue to exist.
The staff should not be dictating policy of BTC businesses. This ticket system is moronic. How do you value an asset that can no longer be exchanged?
As I read it, and I am ready to be corrected, Nefario and the forum staff have colluded to put goat out of business.
1. Yes, he is a prick. But if we don't defend pricks, then, well, you run the risk of monster pricks being really, really big pricks.
2. Quotes for irony.
Unless all the decent mining operations setup their own separate site to manage shareholders that is a bad idea and would lead to even worse outcomes.
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