Topic: Understanding the Ponzi Narrative (Read 932 times)

Yes, it is basically that of the programs that tell you that you invest very little money and get a lot, that is the entrance to a business with a blatant ponzi scheme, or what many call a pyramid, and the worst thing is that people fall incredibly into those blackmails or in those offers that do not make sense, they do not think that nobody gives away the money, and much less if you give little money and you will receive more, that is not logical, that is why many people who believe that BTC is a ponzi scheme or bubble, they are usually people who have no idea what they are talking about.

No he did not say anything about that but he was only explaining if what a real ponzi look like. According to his explanations a ponzi can also be similar to gambling because when we gamble we can win at first. That can be one of their tactics for us to comeback and if we notice when we comeback we are now a loser. The logic is simple. If they offer something that is very promising like 100 percent return in 24 hrs, that is highly possible that it was a scam or a ponzi.

Bitcoin cant attract people because of its amazing features and not only because you can earn with it. It does not promise a guaranteed return and there is no one controlling bitcoin so its very far from a ponzi.

So what is it that you're trying to say then because you didn't leave anything about bitcoin being a Ponzi? That bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme and that it's only attracting more people because it wants to make a lot of money and swindle a lot of people? Bitcoin should have been wrecked when the prices pumped in ATH, there's a lot of opportunities that it could have pulled that off but it seems that bitcoin didn't do it so...

True, but there are still those who say that the bitcoin working system is more or less the same as ponzi, even though we as users feel the difference is very, very far. It's true what you said, it would take longer to put it here, and I think a lot of people have been talking about the difference between bitcoin and ponzi.
It does take more time to explain bitcoin to people who think of it as a ponzi scheme.

Ponzi scheme is clearly a fraud intentions to dupe investors. Ponzi schemes are now becoming famous via cryptocurrencies. Many crypto miners are duping investors money. Recent was safemoon.Critics of the SafeMoon project seem to be wary of it as it is believed that this cryptocurrency was started to generate hype. The SafeMoon crypto reportedly does not have any real-use case and it is criticized for rewarding hodlers and punishing sellers. It is alleged that SafeMoon's policy of punishing sellers discourages people from selling and that is a way to avoid day-trading and fix price volatility. SafeMoon charges a 10 per cent fee on each sale and says that it will reward long-term hodlers by distributing half of the fees charged from sellers among existing coin holders.
In addition, SafeMoon has a very high token supply of 1,000,000,000,000 tokens. Before the launch, the developers had reportedly burnt 223 trillion tokens and they can indulge in manual burns. This means that developers can regularly burn tokens and reduce the supply, which could cause the price of the token to go up.

I don't know why people say bitcoin is Ponzi. If it's ponzi, it's impossible for bitcoin to last long because usually ponzi doesn't last long, because other investors' money is deposited with other investors and so on, until they can no longer cover other investors.
and in Ponzi, most of those who profit are on top, while those who are profitable in btc are people who are good at seeing market prices and of course those who have a lot of btc.
I think the ponzi system and the btc work system are very much different. if explained here can be very long.

Ponzi had been long time existence, it is really just been applied whenever they do see that they could really make benefits from it into those people who are just dumb on believing that easy money do exist.

If people could easily identify it on the first place then they would able to save their asses on potential scam that would be seen on the way.

This is really just too rampant into this market and since there are people who do keep feeding these fellas then they would still exist no matter what.

I also think that is the best option, after all there is no point in trying to force someone else to agree with it, if they think that bitcoin is a scam, fraud or a Ponzi people are free to think whatever they want, that is not going to change at all what we know about bitcoin and all the incredible benefits that we have been able to acquire thanks to it that it would have been impossible to get otherwise, so as long as we know the truth that should bee more than enough for us.

The pattern that is applied not only in Bitcoin but also in almost all assets such as stocks and others can be called a ponzi scheme if you take their perspective.  Indeed, most crypto cases are scams, for example in new coins, but it also happens in other assets.  When people invest heavily in new things that do not know the basis for assessing it, they will be trapped in a chain of fraud.  Bitcoin also has the opportunity to end up being a scam too if big holders withdraw all their assets and make the market down.  only clever clever us I how can continue to take advantage in every opportunity.

Just do it mate. Start encouraging them and stop over thinking that they wont change their views about btc because if we think about it, the adoption still grows up until now and I believe that a part of this people are anti bitcoin before or the people that think that bitcoin is scam.

They are convinced now because there maybe people that carefully explained to them if what is bitcoin or they saw that bitcoin is now popular on their place so they comeback to learn it again. We are not just a normal btc user here but we are part of a big community and we as a member we need to do our best to help btc or our community grow.

When I was new to cryptocurrencies, I followed a lot of ponzi programs such as cloud mining, initially they paid because they hoped that investors would add more deposits, and the easiest way to find out about ponzi is to think logically and of course read a lot of expert advice on this forum.

True, it is better to avoid such debates, because they are simply a waste of time. How can we explain to people who are ingrained in his thinking that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. it is still possible to change the logic of people who already have such thoughts, but the chances are slim.

we can't force what someone thinks even though we've explained it, and in the end it will become a pointless debate. therefore let them with their assumptions, and of course time will answer it, until they finally regret the thought. Ponzi schemes usually only win once and once they fail they can't come back to work. It is indeed difficult to convey understanding to those who are anti-developmental in this era, especially when it is not visible

Thats why i dont really have much interest when trying out to make out some explanation into those people who do have that kind of mindset and something which you couldnt really able to convince out on the things you've been telling them and it would be better if you do just ignore since its not your loss since the opportunity that they could possible to attain when dealing with bitcoin is something which is important and might
able to changed up their lives when it comes to finances or in actual usage which would really make accessibility and transactions way more faster which the current system couldnt
really give on.

The only idealogy ponzi schemes shares with Bitcoin is that both operate on a peer-2-peer network although in a totally different format. Different format in the sense that while ponzi would require a member of the network to make a deposit which is used to pay a another member of the network and once there are no more investors to make payments the system folds up. In Bitcoin the p2p is solely done a decentralized network and it doesn't need an official deposit for other members to earn. Everyone is solely entitled to their coin making every investor a bank of their own self

And that is the best case scenario, there are people that despite being shown evidence that bitcoin is not a Ponzi still believe it is, when you face a person like that it is better to forget about them and not argue with them, they care way more about being right than about the truth, and when that is the case the best thing for you to do is to not engage with them, let them think that bitcoin is a Ponzi and keep their fiat while you keep the best performing asset of the last decade and see who gets tired of it first.

A bubble perhaps, but definitely not a Ponzi.

Some of the most smartest people that have ever walked upon Earth consider crypto to be a bubble. None of us here are smarter than these guys.

Buy low and sell high. Sell before the bubble bursts. That is the game we all are playing. This is not an "investment". This is simply a speculative game and we should acknowledge reality.

Bitcoin will go up in value again in the future. There is no doubt in my mind. But, we all need to have an exit plan. You need to have a point at which you will exit.  Can't play this game forever.

Views of economists

In 2014, Nobel laureate Robert J. Shiller stated that bitcoin "exhibited many of the characteristics of a speculative bubble";[61] in 2017, Shiller wrote that bitcoin was the best current example of a speculative bubble.[62]

Economist John Quiggin in 2013 said "bitcoins are the most demonstrably valueless financial asset ever created".[63]

Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz in 2017 said "It’s a bubble that’s going to give a lot of people a lot of exciting times as it rides up and then goes down." He emphasized its use by criminals, its lack of a socially useful purpose, and said that it should be outlawed.[65]

Nobel laureate Paul Krugman wrote in 2018 that bitcoin is "a bubble wrapped in techno-mysticism inside a cocoon of libertarian ideology". He criticized it as a very slow and expensive means of payment, used mostly to buy blackmarket goods, without a "tether to reality".[66]

Nobel laureate Richard Thaler emphasizes the irrationality in the bitcoin market that has led to the bubble, demonstrating the irrationality with the example of firms that have added the word blockchain to their names which have then had large increases in their stock price. The extremely high volatility in bitcoin's price also is due to irrationality according to Thaler.[67]

Four Nobel laureates, James Heckman, Thomas Sargent, Angus Deaton, and Oliver Hart, characterized bitcoin as a bubble at a joint press conference in 2018. Hart cited Christopher Sims's work showing no intrinsic value to bitcoin. Heckman compared bitcoin to the tulip bubble. Deaton pointed to bitcoin's use by criminals.[68]

Professor Nouriel Roubini of New York University has called bitcoin the "mother of all bubbles",[69][70] writing that the underlying blockchain technology has "massive obstacles standing in its way", including a lack of "common and universal protocols" of the kind that enabled the early Internet.[70] According to Roubini, bitcoin has failed as a unit of account, a means of payment, and as a store of value; he calls the claim that bitcoin cannot be debased "fraudulent".[70] "Scammers, swindlers, charlatans, and carnival barkers (all conflicted insiders) have tapped into clueless retail investors' FOMO ('fear of missing out'), and taken them for a ride," he writes.[70]

You have to step aside, you don't have to have arguments, at least today, in reference to that topic, seriously it is an outdated topic and whoever falls for that question(s) has no idea what bitcoin is as an asset of value and what it represents as an economic tool, and the added value in the development of blockchain technology.

It's you who subjectively believed that the term implies malicious activities. I was merely talking about the function and the process of why Bitcoin was a naturally-occuring Ponzi scheme. But for the sake of the argument, remove what the term implies, and let's stay with the function and the process.