Hi XFactor,
There are three possible theories on someone who have not earned any merit more than 9 months till the launch day of merit system:
- They are spammers. During the 9-month period, they kept posting/ spamming; and have not contributed anything deserves merits.
- They have been totally inactive during the 9-month period.
- They are service providers, such as mining pools, Escrow services, bounty managers, etc. Those sort of users mostly hard to get merits.
So, the figures above are only for reference. We need to have a forensic analysis with a bit deeper analysis to be able to really discover the facts.
Topic: Unfair to Jr.Members - page 2. (Read 1000 times)
Because most of the spamming problem starts from newbie and jr.members.
In my perspective if you were still jr.member before the 1 merit system happens you should have to really go back to newbie and prove something that atleast your worth it.
Earning 1 merit is not that hard tho. Plus it is still being highly abvious
In my perspective if you were still jr.member before the 1 merit system happens you should have to really go back to newbie and prove something that atleast your worth it.
Earning 1 merit is not that hard tho. Plus it is still being highly abvious
jr. member - 1 merit,
member - 11 merits,
full member - 101 merits,
senior member - 251 merits,
hero member - 501 merits,
legendary - 1001 merits
member - 11 merits,
full member - 101 merits,
senior member - 251 merits,
hero member - 501 merits,
legendary - 1001 merits
If we are talking about fairness, then we can say that it is fair to implement the same rule to the high ranked members - requiring them to earn at least a single merit to maintain their rank and status.
The table below shows that low-ranked members are not the only spammers in this forum but there are only high-ranked members. Sadly, the merit system can only target new accounts and cannot affect the old spammer accounts.
[Merit Analysis] Users ranked Sr. Member & up that have not earned any merit
Moreover, there are lots of Hero and Ledgendary have not earned any merit.
The percentage of users at Member, Full Member, Senior Member, Hero, and Ledgendary have not earned any merits till October of 2018 are 83%, 82.6%, 79.8%, 73.3%, and 47.2%, respectively. Amongst all ranks, Ledgendary is a outstanding one with nearly 47% of them have not received any merit. Ranks from Member to Senior Member (even with Hero Member) are almost the same.
Detailed statistics given below.
~
I don't want to fall into arguments there, but it's something like unfair system, even for lower-ranks, of course above Junior Member rank.
Do you agree at this point?
How fair the forum and merit system, rank system are if someone started as a Newbie and get 100 merits to rank up to Full Member rank. In another case, someone who is a Full Member and will not get any merit over the next one year, will be able to stay at Full member, forever.
It will become more clearly unfair for higher ranks, such as Senior, Hero and Ledgendary ranks.
Outside the forum, in real life, in some nations, there are strict requirements on professors, associate professors that they have to satisfy strict criteria, which require them to have new contribution, new project, new published scientific articles during speficic period in order to be as Professors / Associate professors. If they can satisfy those criteria, they will be demoted (as Junior Member rank witnessed weeks ago in the forum).
Moreover, there are lots of Hero and Ledgendary have not earned any merit.
The percentage of users at Member, Full Member, Senior Member, Hero, and Ledgendary have not earned any merits till October of 2018 are 83%, 82.6%, 79.8%, 73.3%, and 47.2%, respectively. Amongst all ranks, Ledgendary is a outstanding one with nearly 47% of them have not received any merit. Ranks from Member to Senior Member (even with Hero Member) are almost the same.
Detailed statistics given below.
| Rank | number of users | number of users received at least 1 merit | number of users with who didn’t earn any merit |
| Member | 27 918 | 4 744 (17%) | 23 174 (83%) |
| Full Member | 18 181 | 3 173 (17,45%) | 15 008 (82,55%) |
| Sr. Member | 9 016 | 1 818 (20,16%) | 7 198 (79,84%) |
| Hero Member | 4 143 | 1 105 (26,67%) | 3 038 (73,33%) |
| Legendary | 2 145 | 1 133 (52,82%) | 1 012 (47,18%) |
I don't want to fall into arguments there, but it's something like unfair system, even for lower-ranks, of course above Junior Member rank.
Do you agree at this point?
How fair the forum and merit system, rank system are if someone started as a Newbie and get 100 merits to rank up to Full Member rank. In another case, someone who is a Full Member and will not get any merit over the next one year, will be able to stay at Full member, forever.
It will become more clearly unfair for higher ranks, such as Senior, Hero and Ledgendary ranks.
Outside the forum, in real life, in some nations, there are strict requirements on professors, associate professors that they have to satisfy strict criteria, which require them to have new contribution, new project, new published scientific articles during speficic period in order to be as Professors / Associate professors. If they can satisfy those criteria, they will be demoted (as Junior Member rank witnessed weeks ago in the forum).
The merit system discussion always target the spammers having low ranked account. And your suggestion seems to address the issue of spammers having high-ranked account. I hope theymos will consider this one.
Given the table above, assuming that the percentage represents members who only spam and cannot earn even a single merit since inception of the merit system, then almost half of the Legendary rank are spammers. I think this number is alarming if we are really dedicated to lessen the number of spammers in this forum.
If your suggestion implemented in the future, I believe that we will witness a new massive wave of demoted higher-ranked users.
Anyway, I support your ideas.
Yeah, it is really fun to see higher-ranked users, who have not earned any merit more than 9 months after the launch of merit sytem, to be demoted.
Anyway, I support your ideas.
jr. member - 1 merit,
member - 11 merits,
full member - 101 merits,
senior member - 251 merits,
hero member - 501 merits,
legendary - 1001 merits
member - 11 merits,
full member - 101 merits,
senior member - 251 merits,
hero member - 501 merits,
legendary - 1001 merits
Yeah, it is really fun to see higher-ranked users, who have not earned any merit more than 9 months after the launch of merit sytem, to be demoted.
[Merit Analysis] Users ranked Sr. Member & up that have not earned any merit
Moreover, there are lots of Hero and Ledgendary have not earned any merit.
The percentage of users at Member, Full Member, Senior Member, Hero, and Ledgendary have not earned any merits till October of 2018 are 83%, 82.6%, 79.8%, 73.3%, and 47.2%, respectively. Amongst all ranks, Ledgendary is a outstanding one with nearly 47% of them have not received any merit. Ranks from Member to Senior Member (even with Hero Member) are almost the same.
Detailed statistics given below.
~
I don't want to fall into arguments there, but it's something like unfair system, even for lower-ranks, of course above Junior Member rank.
Do you agree at this point?
How fair the forum and merit system, rank system are if someone started as a Newbie and get 100 merits to rank up to Full Member rank. In another case, someone who is a Full Member and will not get any merit over the next one year, will be able to stay at Full member, forever.
It will become more clearly unfair for higher ranks, such as Senior, Hero and Ledgendary ranks.
Outside the forum, in real life, in some nations, there are strict requirements on professors, associate professors that they have to satisfy strict criteria, which require them to have new contribution, new project, new published scientific articles during speficic period in order to be as Professors / Associate professors. If they can satisfy those criteria, they will be demoted (as Junior Member rank witnessed weeks ago in the forum).
Moreover, there are lots of Hero and Ledgendary have not earned any merit.
The percentage of users at Member, Full Member, Senior Member, Hero, and Ledgendary have not earned any merits till October of 2018 are 83%, 82.6%, 79.8%, 73.3%, and 47.2%, respectively. Amongst all ranks, Ledgendary is a outstanding one with nearly 47% of them have not received any merit. Ranks from Member to Senior Member (even with Hero Member) are almost the same.
Detailed statistics given below.
| Rank | number of users | number of users received at least 1 merit | number of users with who didn’t earn any merit |
| Member | 27 918 | 4 744 (17%) | 23 174 (83%) |
| Full Member | 18 181 | 3 173 (17,45%) | 15 008 (82,55%) |
| Sr. Member | 9 016 | 1 818 (20,16%) | 7 198 (79,84%) |
| Hero Member | 4 143 | 1 105 (26,67%) | 3 038 (73,33%) |
| Legendary | 2 145 | 1 133 (52,82%) | 1 012 (47,18%) |
I don't want to fall into arguments there, but it's something like unfair system, even for lower-ranks, of course above Junior Member rank.
Do you agree at this point?
How fair the forum and merit system, rank system are if someone started as a Newbie and get 100 merits to rank up to Full Member rank. In another case, someone who is a Full Member and will not get any merit over the next one year, will be able to stay at Full member, forever.
It will become more clearly unfair for higher ranks, such as Senior, Hero and Ledgendary ranks.
Outside the forum, in real life, in some nations, there are strict requirements on professors, associate professors that they have to satisfy strict criteria, which require them to have new contribution, new project, new published scientific articles during speficic period in order to be as Professors / Associate professors. If they can satisfy those criteria, they will be demoted (as Junior Member rank witnessed weeks ago in the forum).
After the bullish market suddenly a lot of new one's accounts appeared here. it turned out that most of it was created by few owners who try to participate in a bounty program with several accounts. and all of these are created in the last few months. so this hurts mostly multi-account bounty hunters and it is certainly fair if they are reluctant to cheat bounty system.
You are so correct, the sudden hike in spam and new creation of account happen when merit system was introduced, It now becomes so difficult to rank to a full member or even high rank members. Though the merit system was good for the forum but the effect resulted to high increase in spam and multi-account for bounties. Thanks to 1 merit to Jr.member, it has reduce the spam rate in the forum and recent signature bounty spreadsheet contains just a few number of people.
First off, I agree with the implementation of 1 Merit for Jr. Members, but I find it unfair that those who were already Jr.Members were demoted to Newbie again, it's just unfair, they should have received 1 Merit from the System automatically and so only new members would be needed to get 1 Merit. When merit was implemented everyone automatically received Merit based on activity, so why is it now different?
What to say.. Life isn't always fair..
It was said a thousand times that one merit isn't much so everybody can achieve it...
But in fact we could be more fair... Let's rise every rank requirements for 1 merit
jr. member - 1 merit,
member - 11 merits,
full member - 101 merits,
senior member - 251 merits,
hero member - 501 merits,
legendary - 1001 merits
I think it would be really FUN to see some high ranked users fighting to "EARN" their first merit ever ;-)
Seriously I would like to see this happen real soon, I have seen some full member that only have bounty report as their post history, yet they have 100 merit and some have never earned one single merit since the merit airdrop and still they call Jr members shit-posters, I just wished and hope mods will look into this and implemented it let's see how many high ranking members will get the just one merit and rank up. It will really be fun.
After the bullish market suddenly a lot of new one's accounts appeared here. it turned out that most of it was created by few owners who try to participate in a bounty program with several accounts. and all of these are created in the last few months. so this hurts mostly multi-account bounty hunters and it is certainly fair if they are reluctant to cheat bounty system.
I am having a dilemma about this:
I agree with you cause: Many people were participating in a signature campaign of some ICOs and were demoted and kicked out. I think if there is to be a new ruling, it should be for new members.
I also disagree with you cause I see people with 100+ activities and zero merit. These people have definitely not "tried" at all to do anything helpful in the forum and still get to enjoy their rank because they shitposted non-stop. So I do think that these should be demoted.
So I don't know man. I just feel like it's hard to be the moderators of such a huge forum.
I agree with you cause: Many people were participating in a signature campaign of some ICOs and were demoted and kicked out. I think if there is to be a new ruling, it should be for new members.
I also disagree with you cause I see people with 100+ activities and zero merit. These people have definitely not "tried" at all to do anything helpful in the forum and still get to enjoy their rank because they shitposted non-stop. So I do think that these should be demoted.
So I don't know man. I just feel like it's hard to be the moderators of such a huge forum.
First off, I agree with the implementation of 1 Merit for Jr. Members, but I find it unfair that those who were already Jr.Members were demoted to Newbie again, it's just unfair, they should have received 1 Merit from the System automatically and so only new members would be needed to get 1 Merit. When merit was implemented everyone automatically received Merit based on activity, so why is it now different?
The forum was deviating from the foundation on which it was built upon as spam and spam megathreads was the order of the day,its really difficult for the MODS to control all that,especially with the Altcoin and Bitcoin discussion sections, the Mods must be super humans going through those sections1 merit to become a junior member isn't unfair instead it's incentivizing,it works two ways, helps you learn more and helps the forum reduce spam.
It's been fairly a success thus far as there is no need you drawing us back to the past..
We've moved on from all that now, all we need from you now is to offer help to someone anytime you have the chance and whenever you wanna create a thread,make sure it's better than this one
When merit was implemented everyone automatically received Merit based on activity, so why is it now different?
Before Merit system was first implemented it was NOT possible to get any merit even from excellent posts. I believe it was because of this, that the old users were given merit from the activity they had at that point.There are lots of old and really excellent and informative posts from many old users ( eg. Gmaxwell, Dannyhamilton & Satoshi
just to mention a few ) and it would be a shame if those posts had not been "merited" at all. Of-course it is true, that those old users who did not make many useful posts benefited from it too. Giving those users 1000 merits is quite a lot in today's standards.
The "new" Jr members however have been able to earn merits from day 1. That is, IF they have made good posts.
But in fact we could be more fair... Let's rise every rank requirements for 1 merit
I think it would be really FUN to see some high ranked users fighting to "EARN" their first merit ever ;-)
The forum already had 2million+ members, and majority were Jr members. And they were targeted to be the problem, so airdropping merits would be aiding them to continue spamming.
I was lucky to get merited early after the announcements, it's difficult with bounty tasks, but I try to keep my comment helpful and productive. So we never go back to the way we were.
I was lucky to get merited early after the announcements, it's difficult with bounty tasks, but I try to keep my comment helpful and productive. So we never go back to the way we were.
Just make 1, decent enough post and you're back being jr. And don't just automatically demand merit without adding any value to the forums. That's hardly an unreasonable request.
I think that in the Bitcointalk forum there is nothing unfair, the clear rules for all members to get privileges no distinguish A and B as long as they are in accordance with the rules of the forum.
Who makes it unfair we ourselves? Which we do not want to think a little with creative ideas for the progress of the forum. What we have in mind is money, bounty and bounty.
[BOUNTY]
[Bounties Altcoins]
Well, why don't we think of a little to be better in the forum. By giving benefit to others, ( don't concern ourselves).
Who makes it unfair we ourselves? Which we do not want to think a little with creative ideas for the progress of the forum. What we have in mind is money, bounty and bounty.
[BOUNTY]
[Bounties Altcoins]
Well, why don't we think of a little to be better in the forum. By giving benefit to others, ( don't concern ourselves).
Before Theymos implement the new system there are hundreds... or thousands of Jr. members who're spammer or shitposters and spreading spams in the forum.
The main goal of merit system is to control the spammers and shitposters in ranking up in to avoid joining bounty campaigns and if you're going to give 1 merits to those shitposters then the spam will be there and will not be gone, having a 1 merit is not a problem if you in yourself know that you can earn it by posting informative or constructive posts.
The main goal of merit system is to control the spammers and shitposters in ranking up in to avoid joining bounty campaigns and if you're going to give 1 merits to those shitposters then the spam will be there and will not be gone, having a 1 merit is not a problem if you in yourself know that you can earn it by posting informative or constructive posts.
When merit was implemented everyone automatically received Merit based on activity, so why is it now different?
Theymos obviously knows where the spamming problem comes from, which is why he made the change the way he did. It might not seem fair to those junior members who got busted back down to noob status, but all they have to do is earn one single merit to move back up in rank. I would also add that the only folks who really care about how unfair it seems are the ones concerned solely with how much advertising they can put in their signature space. In any case, the change was already made. Making new threads bitching about it isn't going to somehow change Theymos's mind and might actually put you on people's ignore list. The whining started probably within the first hour after Jr. Members with no merit went back to Newbie, and it's time for it to stop.
Not sure what OP is complaining about anyway, since he earned 1 merit and has a copper membership. Makes me wonder how many alt accounts he's in control of.
First off, I agree with the implementation of 1 Merit for Jr. Members, but I find it unfair that those who were already Jr.Members were demoted to Newbie again, it's just unfair, they should have received 1 Merit from the System automatically and so only new members would be needed to get 1 Merit. When merit was implemented everyone automatically received Merit based on activity, so why is it now different?
There's a reason why the merit requirement was increased by 1 for Jr members saying it's unfair means you want spam to continue. You should've read this thread before making this post. If only those Jr members that got demoted focused more on what they're posting rather than doing bounties they should've earned at least one by now.
No. If you can't get one merit then you probably don't deserve to be a Junior Member anyway. Many people would argue that no merit should have been 'airdropped' in the first place, but I don't think we should be making everyone a Junior just because of when they signed up, and if you can't get one merit then that's something they're going to have to figure out for themselves. If we allowed this then there'd be a hell of a lot of bots and farmed accounts that would be able to continue on with their shitposting shenanigans.
First off, I agree with the implementation of 1 Merit for Jr. Members, but I find it unfair that those who were already Jr.Members were demoted to Newbie again, it's just unfair, they should have received 1 Merit from the System automatically and so only new members would be needed to get 1 Merit. When merit was implemented everyone automatically received Merit based on activity, so why is it now different?
Fuck off already 
First off, I agree with the implementation of 1 Merit for Jr. Members, but I find it unfair that those who were already Jr.Members were demoted to Newbie again, it's just unfair, they should have received 1 Merit from the System automatically and so only new members would be needed to get 1 Merit. When merit was implemented everyone automatically received Merit based on activity, so why is it now different?
What to say.. Life isn't always fair..
It was said a thousand times that one merit isn't much so everybody can achieve it...
But in fact we could be more fair... Let's rise every rank requirements for 1 merit
jr. member - 1 merit,
member - 11 merits,
full member - 101 merits,
senior member - 251 merits,
hero member - 501 merits,
legendary - 1001 merits
I think it would be really FUN to see some high ranked users fighting to "EARN" their first merit ever ;-)
I find it unfair that those who were already Jr.Members were demoted to Newbie again, it's just unfair, they should have received 1 Merit from the System automatically and so only new members would be needed to get 1 Merit.
Newbies unable to get just 1 merit needs to think again about what they are doing here or simply find another forum to spam on it.
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