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Topic: [UNO] Unobtanium Info & Discussion - Hardfork block 1042000 - Merge Mine w/BTC! - page 472. (Read 1047042 times)

sr. member
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Merit: 250
Hi gustav, thanks for the ongoing convo. Always happy to talk. Don't worry about sounding harsh, your questions come across as being from someone with a serious stake in something. Quite reasonable, all good. Let's continue!

If uno is not required to hardfork it's maybe a different story. It will likely be a softfork nontheless. I would still want to see some practical example tbh.
What is a softfork?

Also, continuing from one of your follow up questions, does it really matter if new wallet version is required that is not backwards compatible with older versions? Consider that the act of performing software updates in modern computing these days is commonplace and even expected: people understand what needing to update their client means, it's just a matter of course, I'd have thought. Do you disagree? (It felt like nitpicking in the other thread with Bryce, which is why I remembered it.)

Uno needs always be able to be mined independently in any case.
Why? Getting more hash from merge mining with the hugely larger network seems to make perfect sense. UNO doesn't get somehow diluted or associated with BTC, it simply means more profit for miners. The only downer is the fork that's required (which I agree shouldn't be taken lightly).

It's possible people flock in masses to this coin and we gain massive marketcap in a short timeframe and really all this fork-stuff is obsolete just because a freakin' chainreaction and mass madness and total run on Uno happens over night for the simple reason that people start to understand why it is better than bitcoin.

I don't share your view that BTC will just vanish into the ether in the next 12 months. Honestly, I agree it's possible but it just doesn't seem remotely likely. UNO is certainly superior, but in the history of mankind, it takes more than a realisation of something's superior design for a sudden exodus. I agree that UNO will continue to get stronger but it's still a heavily BTC-centric cryptoverse out there, warts and all.

(well on a second thought maybe we would still need some MM solutions to get to the real good, rock solid security even in that event)
Well maybe i just start to be more agnostic about all that stuff. MM is definately a good thing. SC? Still tests to do.
...hash calculations...

Maybe MM actually would trigger large investement for it being much more secure all of a sudden?

What's the advantages of waiting with the MM? Do they outweigh?

If Uno can topple bitcoin or come close to it within the next 12 months MM would be obsolete. If that would not be happening MM would be necessary. Is that correct thoughts?
I do applaud your open mindedness regarding considering MM solutions. Again, I don't see BTC just dying a rapid death and everyone flocking to UNO, but even if this was the case, I feel that implementing MM sooner than later seems to be the smart thing.

-
One thing to pick on:
MM is definately a good thing. SC? Still tests to do.
- Implementing MM with BTC means forking UNO.
- Implementing SC with BTC does not mean forking UNO.
- You are against forking UNO.
- You see the value of MM ("it is definitely a good thing").

Thoughts?

Cheers for the ongoing conversation Smiley


1. I don't see the rush to move.  I think we can give a nod that it is okay to move towards MM ... really why not?  But let's plan on a fork in ERA 8-9 (again we have time on our side).  BTC insiders are just this week hinting that it might be a bit of a bummer investment for the next 2 years.  So that is the window 24-30 months.

In the meantime, I do think Bryce has plenty of other coins to test-run things.  If we do this it is the FINAL fork ... so any and all other 'fork-able' things need to be addressed at the same time.  From there on out all updates must be compatible with this last fork ... cause this is a even more conservative group than Mpcoin.
I'm generally agreeable on this, BN. Well put.

I'll be damn'd DVC is a kind of "Pegged    Side Chain" Smiley

"3. If the asset fails to be adopted, I can get some or all my bitcoins back."
In DVCs you can get all the frozen UNOs back.

Mind = Blown. Astute observation!

All we need is an "UnoShare" coin and Un-Ex and the uno-Whales can maintain stable prices just like Nubits.  By leveraging "UnoShare" coin.

This would make Uno more like ripple/Stellar and nearly exactly like Nubits ... except better network security ... and the base $value shifts up ... Nubits are stuck @$1
Insufficient information/knowledge to make meaningful comment on this, but I seriously appreciate your input and have learned a lot from reading your posts. Thank you Smiley


t - 18hr before UNO takes off Wink
Is this your USD$200k buy-in? I seriously don't understand how you plan on doing this. Is the volume just not there? That's one long, long-term hold you're planning!

(Thanks for the heads up!)
hero member
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full member
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t - 18hr before UNO takes off Wink
legendary
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@cragv
good read.  thanks for that post.

"I'm moderately in support of sidechaining and merge mining."

I hold same position ...  moderately in support of

BUT
1. I don't see the rush to move.  I think we can give a nod that it is okay to move towards MM ... really why not?  But let's plan on a fork in ERA 8-9 (again we have time on our side).  BTC insiders are just this week hinting that it might be a bit of a bummer investment for the next 2 years.  So that is the window 24-30 months.

In the meantime, I do think Bryce has plenty of other coins to test-run things.  If we do this it is the FINAL fork ... so any and all other 'fork-able' things need to be addressed at the same time.  From there on out all updates must be compatible with this last fork ... cause this is a even more conservative group than Mpcoin.

So we need to see the BIG picture and look at where we want to go and how we want to get there.


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I'll be damn'd DVC is a kind of "Pegged    Side Chain" Smiley

"3. If the asset fails to be adopted, I can get some or all my bitcoins back."
In DVCs you can get all the frozen UNOs back.

-----------
All we need is an "UnoShare" coin and Un-Ex and the uno-Whales can maintain stable prices just like Nubits.  By leveraging "UnoShare" coin.

This would make Uno more like ripple/Stellar and nearly exactly like Nubits ... except better network security ... and the base $value shifts up ... Nubits are stuck @$1
hero member
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Also Uno needs always be able to be mined independantly in any case. Actually the opinion of miners would be interesting too.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
bottom line on SC for me is: i need to see a practical implementation on another coin and play around with it to be able to come to some kind of conclusion about it tbh.

I wouldn't want to agree on changes with SC on Uno before seeing a practical example.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
@cragv

great comment

"Thing is... you don't want to be waiting for a crisis to respond to.  The merge pools wouldn't have much incentive to add a dying or troubled coin to their portfolio.  Uno is obviously not dying, and I think locking in security should be done sooner than later. The time to strike is when there's max interest and momentum. I do not support waiting for problems to occur, or waiting to see what happens when we know there is a way to do this.  This is my investment, and it needs a secure blockchain."

i find myself in agreement with this a lot

will be looking at your links tomorrow with a clear head.

If uno is not required to hardfork it's maybe a different story. It will likely be a softfork nontheless. I would still want to see some practical example tbh.

On the other hand:

If we simply merge mine Uno with other coins (childcoins and maybe bitcoin aswell) network security could be achieved aswell.
Uno overtaking the Btc chain can happen without sidechaining too as people just need to go on exchange and exchange their btc for uno - and that's it. So i don't see right now what more advantage Uno would have in 'overtaking' the btc chain than it already has.

(some my comments might sound a little harshly but i really have an open mind on everything. What i don't like is being sold promises, vapourware or bullshit so that's why i use clear cut language most of the time. I like it straight forward  Wink Don't be irritated by that. People can still disagree with me, no problem at all. Discussions and communication is important on all matters. And everyone needs to know/understand what's going on or being planned imo.)
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250

So what you guys think about this side chains? He says only good things a. Are this Side Chains so perfect?

Depends on if it needs to hardfork or not. I'm not convinced yet. I actually would need to see this work first hand. My position hasn't changed at all so far.

Bryce only saying good things about it is not a surprise (it's his own proposal afterall). So far there is still many questions unanswered.

I'm not getting a very clear or straight forward picture at all.

In answer to your question #17, (Sidechains bring the risk of a sidechain overtaking the main chain. Why would we want that?)

He said: UNO is the single announced sidechain best positioned to do that.  I'm quite okay with it. How about you?
 
In the context of UNO sidechaining with BTC, assuming I understand this correctly, your question was effectively asking about the risk of a sidechain (UNO) overtaking the main chain (BTC). Bryce said he is okay with that - tell you what, I am too. Aren't you? That'd mean volume and value are on the side of UNO rather than BTC, which is what this is all about, right?

In his answer to your question #4, he also clearly stated that implementing a UNO sidechain with BTC does not require a hard fork. (Sidechains are OP codes).

An OP code looks like this: OP_SIDECHAINPROOFVERIFY

Again, if I understand correctly, there are two kinds of sidechains: pegged and destructive. Have a read of this short thread for a bit more info. If you want to understand sidechains better and you've already read the primer article I posted in this thread 2 or 3 weeks back, here's a short (7 page) whitepaper from last year that is pretty easy to read. Might be helpful?

Lastly, in answer to your question #7,(What happens when BTC runs into problems like splitting into two chains with the Gavinproposal which has no consensus? Will we merge mine against the original  Bitcoin chain (Mpcoin) or against the Gavincoin chain? Will Uno still be able to be mined independant in case mining for bitcoin collapses for one reason or another (bitcoin doomsday scenario)?)

He said: Great question.  If Bitcoin Doomsday happens, sidechains become sporadic and mining pools merge mining UNO fork towards sidechains.  From a political perspective: we are making an economic decision for our ecosystem by which we are adding our vote to bitcoin conensus on behalf of Blockstream.

I read this as being if we're sidechaining UNO on BTC, the market impact or 'weight' of this activity (increased UNO value, effectively) will act as something of a vote in the BTC consensus between Mpcoin and Gavincoin forks. So, if BTC Doomsday happens, obviously whatever is sidechaining with BTC will have some influence on which BTC fork 'wins' from such a fracture. It shouldn't directly affect UNO because UNO wasn't forked when the sidechaining was implemented.

This seems fairly clear to me, if I'm understanding it correctly. I'm not 100% decided here but it seems like sidechaining is a good idea, as is merge mining (and in the case of the latter, auth/pow has been implemented successfully by a number of other coins (NMC, DVC, I0C, etc.) and it obviously works. FallingKnife says it well on page #14 of the Cryptocointalk thread:

"Thing is... you don't want to be waiting for a crisis to respond to.  The merge pools wouldn't have much incentive to add a dying or troubled coin to their portfolio.  Uno is obviously not dying, and I think locking in security should be done sooner than later. The time to strike is when there's max interest and momentum. I do not support waiting for problems to occur, or waiting to see what happens when we know there is a way to do this.  This is my investment, and it needs a secure blockchain."

-
I'm invested in UNO and have taken several weeks to come to my position: I'm moderately in support of sidechaining and merge mining. Still considering all factors and keenly watching discussion. This post has been written with friendly intent and is not intended to make an argument or cause debate (though discussion is always welcome). This is just things as I see them today. Cheers.
hero member
Activity: 602
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The more there is selling pressure at these low prices and new fresh and strong hands entering to the market, the higher the coin will eventually go.

Expect some FUD storm when the marketcap goes to 4-5 million USD.
I do not care about the FUD but I am just warning beforehand the new guys.  Smiley

this is 100% correct

I think it's true to say 'the free market works itself out'

FUD will not come as a surprise and i don't think many will care a great deal about it.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
The more there is selling pressure at these low prices and new fresh and strong hands entering to the market, the higher the coin will eventually go.

Expect some FUD storm when the marketcap goes to 4-5 million USD.
I do not care about the FUD but I am just warning beforehand the new guys.  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1004
buy silver!
 
Dou think guys that is much better if next level of distributions appear on much better prices because the price now are total joke?.
I personally I thing when we got  more real prices then the real distribution start. then we can distribute to more wise responsible people .
 Unobtanium is concentrated wealth so I don't want teenagers play funny little games with UNO as this boy Gekko

lol

Is good gekko had a chance to sell. 800!! Imagine he would have held.  Tongue

Such volatility helps shaking some weak people from the tree. Is good too.

Yes, better price is always appreciated.
Below 10$ is a joke.

Market is thin right now.

I think we will see several up and down swings before actually reaching the 10$

We have time enough. Slow is better than too fast.

What goes up fast, comes down fast as we have seen Wink


btw: i have seen gekkos wallet yesterday move on the explorer (what he says fits the wallet i saw)
He held his coins since march 2014 ... just to dump them on the market in one go yesterday. Man, man, man ...

(but it's good for distribution)

He could have milked it, but its good for him to sell that low!
sr. member
Activity: 308
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They deserve Uno dust not kilograms  Grin
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
 
 how much kilos we sell ? 5 tons 8 tons? Don't sell cheep to those pathetic traders ...
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
 
Dou think guys that is much better if next level of distributions appear on much better prices because the price now are total joke?.
I personally I thing when we got  more real prices then the real distribution start. then we can distribute to more wise responsible people .
 Unobtanium is concentrated wealth so I don't want teenagers play funny little games with UNO as this boy Gekko

lol

Is good gekko had a chance to sell. 800!! Imagine he would have held.  Tongue

Such volatility helps shaking some weak people from the tree. Is good too.

Yes, better price is always appreciated.
Below 10$ is a joke.

Market is thin right now.

I think we will see several up and down swings before actually reaching the 10$

We have time enough. Slow is better than too fast.

What goes up fast, comes down fast as we have seen Wink


btw: i have seen gekkos wallet yesterday move on the explorer (what he says fits the wallet i saw)
He held his coins since march 2014 ... just to dump them on the market in one go yesterday. Man, man, man ...

(but it's good for distribution)
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
  
Dou think guys that is much better if next level of distributions appear on much better prices because the price now are total joke?.
I personally I thing when we got  more real prices then the real distribution start. then we can distribute to more wise responsible people .
 Unobtanium is designed to be  concentrated wealth so I don't want teenagers play funny little games with UNO as this boy Gekko
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
lol bittrex market

All that dumping during the day and now on the move up no supply again ... rofl. Gotta love those daytraders.  Lips sealed

lol, i saw that coming  Roll Eyes

buyers are in control again  Cool
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
Bryce say something about inflation regarding Side Chains  and Uno I don't like.

IMO Bryce should first show on another coin what exactly he is talking about.
He's proposing changes to Uno he has no example for and did not directly and straight forward answer my question 1) ( Is there any evidence that shows sidechains actually are viable and useful longterm?)

He's actually talking about something else and not answering it directly. I'd kindly ask him to show on another coin first what he is talking about.
Pure theory is BS - i'm interested in practical examples.
sr. member
Activity: 308
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Bryce say something about inflation regarding Side Chains  and Uno I don't like.
legendary
Activity: 1470
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Unlike other more inflationary coins, this is a coin that is not scary to pick up from the dump since low emission makes it sure this coin has value.

not scary to pick up from the dump
not scary to pick up from the dump
not scary to pick up from the dump

Boo Yah !!

That's what makes UNO pretty cool.

It may get dumps on rapid ups, but the risk of a prolonged down turn is less (reason low inflation).

And unlike the pure stakes ... black, fuel, panda, rdd ... UNO is not coming off $Million dollar IPO market caps ... there is little incentive for guys that got $1M for not much to HODL ... UNO is the opposite it has traded in the $1-$2 for a long time.   The strong hands are in for a LONG game.

Plus this is a SHA256 coin ... 1000000x more secure than stakes.  If you don't get that then please study up because it the difference between a bumblebee and a space launch vehicle.


this
when UNO is lets say 1000+ dollars whats stopping everyone from selling off their UNO and "cashing out" driving the price down? Whats stopping them from doing this? Wont this in the end drive the price down hard?

Remember there are only 193 000 coins, not 800 000 000.  1000+ is far ahead and when bitcoin was at 1000, I never cashed out, it even got to 1500 in canada, I didnt sell, only to pay bills.  Manipulation drives the price down.
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@ProminerOne

my sides hurt from giggling

get that tweeting any whos that tweet
hero member
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So what you guys think about this side chains? He says only good things a. Are this Side Chains so perfect?

Depends on if it needs to hardfork or not. I'm not convinced yet. I actually would need to see this work first hand. My position hasn't changed at all so far.

Bryce only saying good things about it is not a surprise (it's his own proposal afterall). So far there is still many questions unanswered.

I'm not getting a very clear or straight forward picture at all.
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