Topic: [UNO] Unobtanium Info & Discussion - Hardfork block 1042000 - Merge Mine w/BTC! - page 570. (Read 1047203 times)

Thank you for that typo!  It brought out one of the more interesting and informative discussions I've seen here.  I now even have a clue as to what "KGW" does.   

A 1000 Terra Hash Hashes lol.  No i made a typo Exactly numbers: 0.63 coins.Yes  0.63 Not 6.3   

Yes, if the network hash suddenly drops by, say 50%, then it will take the remaining miners twice as long to mine through the high difficulty block. But after that, KGW will quickly lower difficulty and try to average 3 minute blocks. So miners who put in the work to push through the difficult block will probably be rewarded with a few less difficult/faster blocks.  

KGW came about because there were a lot of coins (many now dead, RIP) that  got hung up on high diff blocks after switch pools came along. They mined the easy profitable blocks and when difficulty jumped, they left the hard unprofitable blocks for everyone else to mine.  The problem was compounded if the network only adjusted difficulty every 2 weeks, or xx number of blocks; nobody wanted to put in all the work only to have it stranded again.

Yes only 15 coins a day.  

And at next block halving ... less ... half as less

Even if 100000TH of the power from the bitcoin network switches over.

The issue with the difficult is a bit above my pay grade.  But my guess is that if 3,020 TH/s comes online then a couple of blocks will be mined very quickly, then if the 3,020 TH/s  goes offline and we drop back to 20 TH/s then the network might hang for a while until the algo says time to reduce the 'difficulty'.

thanks for explaining that, FK.  You've got a great way of putting things in "plain english" that average users can understand.

@ Bitcoin National: good advice!! That gives us months to (a) get twenty or thirty TTs involved in DVC, (b) develop Un-Ex further, and (c) get more familiar with Genesis -- but we can start haggling for discounts for DVC holders -- we already have one: a 10% discount on anarcoin products once  BigTimeSpaghetti is 'signed up' for DVC.


"$500 chunks of Genesis-mining ... Smiley ... if person in that loop reads this ... sell the Uno Community G/hash coupons or transferable contracts ... then we can extend your customer base." Woo hoo!! I look forward to your technical help with this!

I would suggest that the 'customer's' only 'contact' with their Genesis-mining set-up be their Uno wallet, which we teach them to update. So, they give us the money; we run the whole show; 10 Uno comes as payment into our wallet; 9 is passed to theirs.

Anyway, I knew you would understand the basic idea!!

Mark (IndiaMikeZulu), Australia

You're right that more hash doesn't mean more Uno, as KGW resets difficulty every block to average 3 minute blocks over time. This is different from Bitcoin which resets difficulty every 2016 blocks;  with Btc more hash does mean more coins faster (< 10 minutes). Not with Uno.  If hash was low enough, you could run the Uno network off of your block erupters.

More hash, when distributed, helps to secure the network against various attacks, such as a 51% attack, or double spend attacks.
In a manner of speaking, Uno is protected not only by Kgw but by it's low block reward. While Btc still gives 25 btc/block, Uno's reward is getting extremely low so that attackers have less incentive; there are just easier coins to attack.  

I have a computer here that mines various forgotten sha256 coins off of block erupters, for no other reason that I can simply do it.  I have no illusions that anything will ever come from it, it's just sort of fun for now.  All these networks run just fine on low hash.  

I once did my own "51% attack" against one of the networks after I accidentally send a large % of the coins to a dead address. As the sole miner, it was simple for me to back up the block chain and create new blocks to write over my mistake and bring back my lost coins  (How do you do it?  Start by downloading the blockchain to a new client on computer 1, but stop it before the block you want to overwrite; setup a private network between two computers; synch client on computer 2 to partial blockchain on computer 1;  start up the miners on our private network and create a longer chain than the real one; put them both back online and the network will accept the new longer chain).   But it becomes much more difficult to attack when there are other miners pushing the network forward, syncing the block chain.  Ideally, you don't want anyone to control more than 51% of the network; it's not an automatic tragedy if that happens, but goes to the integrity of the blockchain.

Thanks BN, I guess my real question was more of a technical one along the lines of "how does that effect the network?". 

unobtanium.uno says the current network hashrate is about 16.5 TH/s (I think FK said earlier today it was then about 25 TH/s).  Let's assume an average of about 20 TH/s.  Those 20 TH/s are creating 15 coins a day.

Now let's say (hypothetically) tomorrow 3 big-bucks folks come in and each start throwing in 1,000 TH/s for a grand total of 3,020 TH/s (3,000 + the current average 20).

How does that extra hashing power effect the network?  What does that "do" to (or for) the network at the current stage of the game?

There are still going to be only 15 coins a day.  How are these coins going to be any more "special" than the ones created by only 20 TH/s?  Does the block chain somehow become super more efficient in some way?

Wouldn't that extra hashing power be essentially being "thrown away", at least until such time as the value of UNO has skyrocketed and the block reward has halved dozens and dozens of times?

1,000 TH/s is $700k?  (to lazy to check the math)

Safe to say they now have 100% control of new production.  And can sell it off for about $45/day ... I think it will be a while to regain the $700k investment.  Or worst they are malicious, but not in their interest having wager such a big bet.

1,000 TH/s would put Uno in the rank of Peer.  And 1/250th of the almighty and powerful bitcoin network.  Basically untouchable.

The implication is that no new UNO would be entering the market until prices increase to the $100s.

Such deep pockets would also be well served to lay $500k on the bottom line support level in the books.  And ever so slowly creep the bottom bid price 'wall' up and up and up.  

Now that would create an environment with no new uno being sold off and an ever rising solid support level.  

End game ... the big investor would need to recoup at least $1 million.  And would also hopefully have the intelligence not to crack the market when selling off in increments.  Or they could simply HODL until $1 Billion in market cap and then million smillion ... plenty of ROI to be had.

-----

@M ... yes on the wholesale.  But I'm hold off on this possibility until daily volume is averaging above 10btc ... looking at summer 2015 or after to move that way.

$500 chunks of Genesis-mining ... ... if person in that loop reads this ... sell the Uno Community G/hash coupons or transferable contracts ... then we can extend your customer base.

But the promocodes/commissions function the same way.  We (tech savvy Uno fans) get friends and family on the gig.  That means we set them up with wallets and stuff.  Then help them to get a genesis account and route the payouts to their wallet.  They don't have to know a damn thing about mining just teach them to check the Uno client for new funds.  Very simple.  Then ring them when Uno goes up in price  

It' get them the community's respect, and a share of the future. We respect Un miners here. Thanks for mining Un.

.03125 Un doesn't seem like much now, and it's probably not even profitable at curret prices. But I believe it will be tomorrow.  
Early bitcoin mining was also unprofitable.   We're building something special here, one block at a time, on investor at a time, one community member at a time.  I'll take every tiny piece of it I can get.

No kidding! 


Hypothetical situation:  Let's say 3 people each throw, oh, 1,000 TH/s (TH/s, not GH/s) at UNO mining.  What does that do to UNO production?  15 coins a day is 15 coins a day.  And what does that do for each of those three miners (not to mention all the other 2-bit miners on board)?

Update:  Approximately 30 seconds after I posted that about Genesis Mining just now, I got this response from them:


So I feel much better about them now, and will order on Monday with the 10% discount!   

Thank you FK.  I started to try your suggestion but decided to wait until I heard from their "freshdesk" support since I had gotten about a $25 discount from the recently suggested "MOON" promo code when signing up, and if I did your "let the bank wire expire and do another order" suggestion, it showed the new order would be without the discount.

I noticed I had no emails from them, so I went to their freshdesk support page.  My support ticket about *changing* the order from USD to BTC had been "closed"!  No answer, no nothing, just closed.  It's like they thought, "What kind of stupid request is this?" and just closed it without consideration of a response.

So Mike, I took your suggestion and canceled the order, then went to the "Upgrade hashpower" part.  Same deal, no discount.

Yes, a lost $25 discount on a $779 order doesn't break the bank, but it's the principle of the thing, so I'm a little miffed at Genesis Mining at the moment.  I've replied to the abruptly closed ticket.  I'm holding out on ordering anything for a "let's wait and see" for now.

PS.  I was actually looking forward to maybe selling my two Antminer S3's (awesome miners, by the way) and my odd collection of some 27 USB ASICs (various Antminer U2s, BiFury's, NanoFury's and one lonely old Block Erupter , five of those cute little USB cooling fans, and three USB hubs.  The Antminers run more or less standalone, they just need to be connected to one's router; the USB ASICs on the other hand require an always-on PC with mining software (I use MultiMiner) on that PC.  A decent and cost-effective cloud-mining solution sounds pretty enticing, but I want to make sure I know who I'm dealing with ...

Welcome, Zeta

Mark

Global Mall Unobtanium

First, are there any on-line-saleable products that anyone in the community can obtain wholesale?

Think of this community/Un-Ex/face-to-face meet-ups/DVC/on-line-saleable products as the foundation of Global Mall Unobtanium.

One of the first ‘products’ should be $500 chunks of Genesis-mining.

The community member ‘signs up’ a family member or colleague, who puts up the $500. The community member runs the show, and receives as commission 10% of the incoming coin, which is itself likely to circulate in the Mall.

IndiaMikeZulu has two such models, and a third in the pipeline.*

Note the fine balance between the enterprising individual and the enabling community:

each community member is solely responsible for her actions. There is no corporation, no legal entity. However, as with the bullion verification involved with DVC – the trust and dynamism of community members for the community makes possible projects that would be untenable for the individual.

*There’s nothing exploitative about this. One Big Lesson that IndiaMikeZulu has learned from its ‘on-da-street’ development is that people are just too busy!!!!!

They may understand in principle that cryptos will be huge, but getting started and staying up to date is just too hard.

Meanwhile, you, dear reader, are a citizen of planet crypto. Even if the 10%-es just paid our long-term Net-data and computer-maintenance costs, it would be win-win.

Wow, that would be about 1/3 of the total estimated Uno daily production. How much hash are you bringing?

Firts day already 0.63 coins :-D

Check out the "Labels" tab on the paper wallet site. It also includes the bones of a script to bulk-fund the labels.

http://cryptap.us/uno/paperwallet.html

Nice Genesis is doing UNO Mining.

July 2011 ... wish I was smart enough to have collected btc 'notes' then ... actually wanted to but Getting to buy some was not so easy (silk road catchy back then real murky murk).

Cards are standard credit-card size, 3.37" x 2.125"
good idea ... I might make a few experimental of these just for fun ... a secure priv key is the tough part.  But yes this is one variety of what can be done.

I just was inspired ... and got a glimpse at what could be secure, small, very durable, and in your hand by the grams.  But under my hat until I surely know it is possible.  


Another case of UNO gets it right.  go read some OP of top100 coins, then read Knifes ... you will see a difference ... mainly information and a presentation that is not intimidating to new coin collectors.  I still want to do .info site, but I think the UNO thing is this thread thing. The tread shows we are active and constantly working towards improvements.  A case of 'don't screw with a system that works' is my excuse for not getting .info done, but I do have an idea that should complement the Un collection of website resources.  (nothing flashy ... i can't even count how many 'fancy' website coins turned out to be total stinkers)