Topic: Unofficial BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread - page 15. (Read 202938 times)

I agree with you.

Again we have an unfair reinterpretation of facts.



In bitmines own language, "late Shipment" is what they define in paragraph 1. It has nothing to do with CPP, in fact it excludes them and us from the CPP.
It's just the lateness in days, after the agreed upon shipment week.

This same definition can't be changed later on, what are they thinking, to no connect it to the agreed upon shipment week anymore, but rather to the start of the CPP???

Ofcourse not.
What sane person changes the definition inbetween two paragraphs???

They start the sentence with: Listen everybody: "late shipment" means "days passed since the shipment date"...
and two sentences later they go....
nonono! "late shipment" starts with the CPP?

I think any lawyer would start laughing should they hear about such clumsy behaviour. What is this a turkish bazar?

So I am sure you can apply for a refund after 61 days. Don't let bitmine intimidate you. Just do the procedure, and talk to them, and complain about it wherever you can, and how often you can.
This must be heard, or they will think they can do anything they want.

so also the 71th day cancellation is bullshit. It clearly states 61 days. Why would one add the 10 days? Late shipment is late shipment even if 10 days are allowed. Not need to add them up.

I think the TSO/CPP is still the same, and has never changed (since atleast November 2013 when I first saw it)

http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=850

What has changed is that giorgiomassa made it clear how it has to be interpreted in his last post here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5362648

I am not sure if giorgiomassa is legally right, or if he has mislead us all with the way the CPP is phrased:

Lets looks at it more clearly:


So giorgiomassa wants to make us believe that the moment paragraph 3) applies, suddenly paragraph 2) becomes invalid, and doesn't apply anymore.


Logic tells me that paragraph 2) does still apply and that's what every customer has assumed too.

Since paragraph 3) clearly mentions an optional action the customer can take (if he chooses to) it makes paragraph 2) look even more valid and untouchable,
since if you don't want you don't have to act upon paragraph 3), you can just ignore it. It's optional.
(Ofcourse should the customer decide to ask for a refund, the CPP together with the complete order is automatically cancelled.
THAT should be the only case when paragraph 2) becomes invalid.)

If paragraph 3) was supposed to invalidate paragraph 2) there should have been a clear formulation that this would be the case.

Giorgiomassa has made a reinterpretation.

What he does is a bit of a stretch: he declares paragraph 2) invalid since he probably assumed that everyone would ask for a refund anyway.
In fact I believe giorgiomassa really hopes and encourages at every chance he gets that we customers should take the refund. I wonder why?
(For example here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5617570 )

PS I am not a lawyer.

I have the TOS from November and nothing is changed from todays TOS.

have anybody the old orig TOS ?.... i mean, i orderd at that... not on any new tos..

I've read that post and it contradicts anything Bitmine published on their website and shared with people ordering

If they change their TOS then it should only apply to new orders since the change

Exactly - but Giorgio the Great decided to change his mind on that and not be so generous. (Read his last post on the official thread).

Dude - you are the one getting emotional here - not GeorgeM - he was dead on.
If you are happy about the fact that the whole bitmine operation just didn´t go bust by now then you are only showing your low attitude. You obviously don´t care much and probably don´t have much skin in the game.

We can and should list those facts as long as there is no official response from Bitmine; in order to protect future customers of not making the same mistake by ordering with them.

1000 - Desks lol ... the current rate was said to be a maximum of 30 - likely less.
This fact alone shows the level of project management fail at bitmine.

I am not allowed to do a refund yet. I am at 30% CPP at the moment (I assume, I can't know for sure, since even you don't know for sure...)
I still hope I will get my two coindesks this month... It would make me happy. But more and more I think I am daydreaming...

I forgot to ask you:

are those 1500+ customers worldwide... or simply 1500+ ordered devices?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter and you are again doing your politician-talk.  

Can you confirm?

where is it listed in the CPP it's capped at 50%? None of the website or emails I got when I placed the order mentioned any max limit

Sounds like they are Hashfasting you all with changing TOS after the fact and making it retroactive. Good luck.

I was just reading their TOS again, to check for that 50% cap. Because, maybe I'm stupid but, if they change it after my purchase, those changes do not apply for me at all. And for you too...

And look there, §4.5.2:
50% cap my a**...

Something interesting I found out:
TOS - §1.6 reads:
That actually means:
Since Bitmine does NOT send out that confirmation on its own as stated in the TOS, if you have not requested the confirmation on your own and have received it, they can claim you never had a contract with them, if they want to.

sounds like they may be liable for occured damages in terms of mining loss.. maybe thats why they want us to sign these docs.

nice1

http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19110009/201401010000/220.pdf

Art.190 & Art. 191

And it sounds to me like you are "blaming the victim", which is just wrong.

Well, we can all learn, and tell others about our experience.
But to be silent is the last thing we should do, and that's why you see us complain.

And yes, I will keep complaining, why should I stop?
Has the situation changed or has restitution of any kind happened?

Obviously not, so why stop complaining?

Also, there is a really healthy reason WHY we complain, and it baffles me that bitmine doesn't understand this.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_complaint :

---

A consumer complaint or customer complaint is “an expression of dissatisfaction on a consumer’s behalf to a responsible party” .
It can also be described in a positive sense as a report from a consumer providing documentation about a problem with a product or service.[1]
In fact, some modern business consultants urge businesses to view customer complaints as a gift.

--->A Customer Complaint Is a Gift

---

I see it this way: complaining about a company is like "testing someones character".
Checking if the person really cares and wants to take responsibility.

But the way I have seen bitmine react in the last months is not very encouraging.
Instead of showing us that they can be trusted, they start to threaten us, they stifle discussion and even blame us for their delays (I still can't believe this   )....
What I initially hoped to become a good deal, has developped into something like a "visit to the dentist" that I can't wait to finally get behind me.
I so hope this will end soon, so I can procede with my life.

But "this dentist" won't even tell me how long I have to wait, and how soon the procedure will be over.... so the waiting and the ambiguity is slowly eating my nerves...

Bitmine, it's your last chance.
Prove you are worth something and that you can be trusted, and your customers will reward you.
Why is this so difficult to understand?

I was pleasantly surprised by the extremely quick response this time.  The news wasn't exactly super awesome but they responded to me.  FWIW they have responded to all my email requests (3 or 4 total I think since my order in Nov so I don't think I am being a pest!).  All but this last one took at least a couple of days to get back to me.  Guess my email just happen to be sent at a perfect time for him to catch it a shoot a real quick response too?  Lucky me I guess.

With regards to everything else ya its sucks balls not having a miner yet.

+1

This type of "business" is the best way to loose clients. And Bitmine will lose a lots of clients. Except Petamine.

So you are the lucky one I'm waiting 2 weeks for response on similar request.

kev.in thanks a lot !

So complaint is not allowed?
Is that what it boils down to for you?
While we are raped we might just as well enjoy it?
(After all it's free sex, isn't it?  )

I don't understand the thought of some people here.

Fact is that the information on the bitmine.ch site for months now has been deliberately manipulating the customers into thinking that the risk is very low.
And that you can pay good money to get this low risk.
We were told that should something go wrong, we would get a CPP (everybody assumed an open-ended CPP), and even a 50% turbomode was implied that we could use to make up lost time.
But everything turns out to be a trick.

What good is a turbomode you can't really use ?
What good is a CPP that lets you down after 50% ?

Fact is that many people wouldn't have made orders if they knew how high the risk really is, and that everything bitmine posted was not facts, but assumptions.

So people payed good money, but still got high risk.
So in a way yes they were tricked.

PS: I still hope to get my two devices within the next 3 weeks (I am at 30% CPP at the moment). But I know for sure that I will not recommend or use bitmine ever again. It makes no sense, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.