US Debt Has Exploded - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Laosai

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Quote from: markj113 on February 14, 2016, 06:40:23 AM

Every country has a turn at being Reserve currency -

The US has had they shot and its naturally coming to an end, next will be China.

Lol, cool graph. France was a Reserve currency? I didn't it happened xD
Guess you learn something new in your country everyday!

markj113

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Every country has a turn at being Reserve currency -

The US has had they shot and its naturally coming to an end, next will be China.

Laosai

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: markj113 on February 14, 2016, 06:34:16 AM

Quote from: yugo23 on February 11, 2016, 06:36:36 AM

Quote from: markj113 on February 10, 2016, 05:55:12 PM

You cant just keep printing yourself out of debt with nothing to back the new currency generated.

Ultimately it just waters down the currency value and ends in hyperinflation.

Which makes your debt worth nothing.

And most countries can't but USA can as they have the right to do so and their debt value is fixed in USD...

Iran is now only accepting euro's in payment for oil, China and Russia are now making trades directly in Yuan and Ruble bypassing the USD.

Russia/China is launching a SWIFT replacement.

Zimbabwe has dumped the euro for Yuan as a currency.

The USA will lose reserve currency status then your USD will be worth less than toilet paper before you know it due to drowing in debt.

Quote from: Laosai on February 14, 2016, 06:29:47 AM

Well sure. But then who to trade with?

Problem being they still have this mother fucker army whcih is the biggest in the world.
So if anyone minds what their economy is doing, they'll have to face their military part, and that'll lay some shit.

I think if the US decided to start a war with China/Russia it would not end well.

Well f USA crash I don't think it would end well.

I don't see them accepting being out of the international game. They'd rather burn the hell of the planet.

markj113

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Quote from: yugo23 on February 11, 2016, 06:36:36 AM

Quote from: markj113 on February 10, 2016, 05:55:12 PM

You cant just keep printing yourself out of debt with nothing to back the new currency generated.

Ultimately it just waters down the currency value and ends in hyperinflation.

Which makes your debt worth nothing.

And most countries can't but USA can as they have the right to do so and their debt value is fixed in USD...

Iran is now only accepting euro's in payment for oil, China and Russia are now making trades directly in Yuan and Ruble bypassing the USD.

Russia/China is launching a SWIFT replacement.

Zimbabwe has dumped the USD for Yuan as a currency.

The USA will lose reserve currency status then your USD will be worth less than toilet paper before you know it due to drowing in debt.

Quote from: Laosai on February 14, 2016, 06:29:47 AM

Well sure. But then who to trade with?

Problem being they still have this mother fucker army whcih is the biggest in the world.
So if anyone minds what their economy is doing, they'll have to face their military part, and that'll lay some shit.

I think if the US decided to start a war with China/Russia it would not end well.

Laosai

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Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: mistanama on February 14, 2016, 06:27:18 AM

Quote from: yugo23 on February 11, 2016, 06:36:36 AM

Quote from: markj113 on February 10, 2016, 05:55:12 PM

You cant just keep printing yourself out of debt with nothing to back the new currency generated.

Ultimately it just waters down the currency value and ends in hyperinflation.

Which makes your debt worth nothing.

And most countries can't but USA can as they have the right to do so and their debt value is fixed in USD...

If they do this all the time, people will lose faith in the US dollar and will not accept USD in international trades.

Well sure. But then who to trade with?

Problem being they still have this mother fucker army whcih is the biggest in the world.
So if anyone minds what their economy is doing, they'll have to face their military part, and that'll lay some shit.

mistanama

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Quote from: yugo23 on February 11, 2016, 06:36:36 AM

Quote from: markj113 on February 10, 2016, 05:55:12 PM

You cant just keep printing yourself out of debt with nothing to back the new currency generated.

Ultimately it just waters down the currency value and ends in hyperinflation.

Which makes your debt worth nothing.

And most countries can't but USA can as they have the right to do so and their debt value is fixed in USD...

If they do this all the time, people will lose faith in the US dollar and will not accept USD in international trades.

yugo23

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Quote from: markj113 on February 10, 2016, 05:55:12 PM

You cant just keep printing yourself out of debt with nothing to back the new currency generated.

Ultimately it just waters down the currency value and ends in hyperinflation.

Which makes your debt worth nothing.

And most countries can't but USA can as they have the right to do so and their debt value is fixed in USD...

yvv

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.

Quote from: Preclus on February 10, 2016, 12:48:44 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on February 10, 2016, 12:24:25 PM

You create confusion and then people decide not to hold your worthless paper.
They would rather hold gold.

Nobody holds US dollars. People hold:

- land
- houses
- public stock
- bonds
- private equity investments (private stock)
- bank deposits (these are not dollars, they are loans to the bank)
- CDs
- beenie babies

And, in fact, many people are short the US dollar. They bought a house with a mortgage. They spent money they didn't have to buy a house, they borrowed it from a bank.

And by doing so, they went short the dollar. If you have a $500,000 mortgage and a $1MM house, you are short the dollar to the tune of $500,000. You are hoping the value of the dollar goes down over time again your house value. It is a leveraged bet on real estate.

In that situation, they not only have no dollars, they are short (negative) dollars.

Nobody holds dollars. Dollars are not an investment. Dollars are a means of exchange. They are what things are priced in. Thinking about the value of something vs. the value of the dollar doesn't even make sense. A dollar is worth a dollar, year after year. It is not an investment.

This is not true. Many corruptionists in the world prefer to convert money, which they stole from people, into USD cash. Many poor people in the world, who are robbed by corruptioninsts prefer to save their little money in USD cash. This is a very popular savings asset so far.

markj113

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You cant just keep printing yourself out of debt with nothing to back the new currency generated.

Ultimately it just waters down the currency value and ends in hyperinflation.

Laosai

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Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: Betwrong on February 10, 2016, 12:53:47 PM

Quote from: yugo23 on February 10, 2016, 04:43:12 AM

Quote from: Barnabe on February 09, 2016, 12:10:43 PM

Quote from: onlinedragon on February 09, 2016, 12:03:46 PM

THe world economy depends to much on that from the VS. The dept is really high but so far that was never a problem to just press more money.

But do you think it should continue this way ?
The US has been printing *a lot* of money the last few years. They are trying to export little by little their debt to the world.
A lot of people are noticing this more and more, if they think it's not profitable anymore (or that holding US dollars is too expensive [because if loses value every year]) the US dollar could crash really fast.

Bah, just got to print a USD2 with this simple calculation that USD2 = 10000000 USD.
Then you print a bit of money and it all goes smooth xD

Ammm, not really. Remember Zimbabwe when they printed their trillions notes. That didn't help them much.

IMO USA is very far from this point actually. They don't print dollars without thinking about how much exactly they should print, that's why the inflation is not as big as in some other countries.

Difference is Zimbabwe debt was in USD whereas USA debt is in... USD ^^

So if they print 10000000000 USD bils they'll just repay it with a few bills. It will automatically decrease the value of the debt in fact =)

Barnabe

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Quote from: Preclus on February 10, 2016, 12:48:44 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on February 10, 2016, 12:24:25 PM

You create confusion and then people decide not to hold your worthless paper.
They would rather hold gold.

Nobody holds US dollars. People hold:

- land
- houses
- public stock
- bonds
- private equity investments (private stock)
- bank deposits (these are not dollars, they are loans to the bank)
- CDs
- beenie babies

And, in fact, many people are short the US dollar. They bought a house with a mortgage. They spent money they didn't have to buy a house, they borrowed it from a bank.

And by doing so, they went short the dollar. If you have a $500,000 mortgage and a $1MM house, you are short the dollar to the tune of $500,000. You are hoping the value of the dollar goes down over time again your house value. It is a leveraged bet on real estate.

In that situation, they not only have no dollars, they are short (negative) dollars.

Nobody holds dollars. Dollars are not an investment. Dollars are a means of exchange. They are what things are priced in. Thinking about the value of something vs. the value of the dollar doesn't even make sense. A dollar is worth a dollar, year after year. It is not an investment.

That's an interesting view on the situation, but a bit incorrect in my opinion.
Right now Oil is negotiated in US dollars, which means that each time Oil is traded they have to convert it to USD. If the seller doesn't need the money right after it he can keep the USD (it will be useful in a future transaction). This creates an artificial offer for USD, thus increasing the price of it. In this case, even if the USD is only a way to exchange value, the currency benefits from it.

Bonds can also be correlated to a currency, for instance a few years ago when Japan was hit by the "Fukushima tsunami" the value of Yen increased simply because companies sold their foreign holdings so they could have cash to pay for damages.

markj113

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Quote from: Betwrong on February 10, 2016, 12:53:47 PM

IMO USA is very far from this point actually. They don't print dollars without thinking about how much exactly they should print, that's why the inflation is not as big as in some other countries.

Really?

I thought every year they just have a pretend argument over the debt ceiling then increase it just enough to last them until the following year where they increase the debt ceiling again in a never ending spiral of hopeless unpayable debt.

Betwrong

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: yugo23 on February 10, 2016, 04:43:12 AM

Quote from: Barnabe on February 09, 2016, 12:10:43 PM

Quote from: onlinedragon on February 09, 2016, 12:03:46 PM

THe world economy depends to much on that from the VS. The dept is really high but so far that was never a problem to just press more money.

But do you think it should continue this way ?
The US has been printing *a lot* of money the last few years. They are trying to export little by little their debt to the world.
A lot of people are noticing this more and more, if they think it's not profitable anymore (or that holding US dollars is too expensive [because if loses value every year]) the US dollar could crash really fast.

Bah, just got to print a USD2 with this simple calculation that USD2 = 10000000 USD.
Then you print a bit of money and it all goes smooth xD

Ammm, not really. Remember Zimbabwe when they printed their trillions notes. That didn't help them much.

IMO USA is very far from this point actually. They don't print dollars without thinking about how much exactly they should print, that's why the inflation is not as big as in some other countries.

Preclus

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Activity: 167

Merit: 100

Quote from: pitham1 on February 10, 2016, 12:24:25 PM

You create confusion and then people decide not to hold your worthless paper.
They would rather hold gold.

Nobody holds US dollars. People hold:

- land
- houses
- public stock
- bonds
- private equity investments (private stock)
- bank deposits (these are not dollars, they are loans to the bank)
- CDs
- beenie babies

And, in fact, many people are short the US dollar. They bought a house with a mortgage. They spent money they didn't have to buy a house, they borrowed it from a bank.

And by doing so, they went short the dollar. If you have a $500,000 mortgage and a $1MM house, you are short the dollar to the tune of $500,000. You are hoping the value of the dollar goes down over time again your house value. It is a leveraged bet on real estate.

In that situation, they not only have no dollars, they are short (negative) dollars.

Nobody holds dollars. Dollars are not an investment. Dollars are a means of exchange. They are what things are priced in. Thinking about the value of something vs. the value of the dollar doesn't even make sense. A dollar is worth a dollar, year after year. It is not an investment.

Preclus

full member

Activity: 167

Merit: 100

Let's say you have two people.

One has no debt and earns $100,000 a year.

A second doesn't work but has $10MM in debt. They used that money to buy commercial properties that bring in $800,000 a year in income (8% cap rate). They pay a debt rate of 3.5% so after debt payments, they net $450,000 (before tax).

Debt is not inherently a bad thing.

Denker

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Quote from: pitham1 on February 10, 2016, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on February 10, 2016, 11:11:43 AM

Quote from: yugo23 on February 10, 2016, 04:43:12 AM

Quote from: Barnabe on February 09, 2016, 12:10:43 PM

Quote from: onlinedragon on February 09, 2016, 12:03:46 PM

THe world economy depends to much on that from the VS. The dept is really high but so far that was never a problem to just press more money.

But do you think it should continue this way ?
The US has been printing *a lot* of money the last few years. They are trying to export little by little their debt to the world.
A lot of people are noticing this more and more, if they think it's not profitable anymore (or that holding US dollars is too expensive [because if loses value every year]) the US dollar could crash really fast.

Bah, just got to print a USD2 with this simple calculation that USD2 = 10000000 USD.
Then you print a bit of money and it all goes smooth xD

Dont rename it, because then people realize that its devalued.

Devalue it, and cut the zeroes, but dont rename the currency, that way you can fool the people continuously.

You create confusion and then people decide not to hold your worthless paper.
They would rather hold gold.

Either that or they start to accept and use a more stable foreign currency.
Or they simply switch over to barter again when possible.
Also cigarettes could be used as kind of a currency.

pitham1

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on February 10, 2016, 11:11:43 AM

Quote from: yugo23 on February 10, 2016, 04:43:12 AM

Quote from: Barnabe on February 09, 2016, 12:10:43 PM

Quote from: onlinedragon on February 09, 2016, 12:03:46 PM

THe world economy depends to much on that from the VS. The dept is really high but so far that was never a problem to just press more money.

But do you think it should continue this way ?
The US has been printing *a lot* of money the last few years. They are trying to export little by little their debt to the world.
A lot of people are noticing this more and more, if they think it's not profitable anymore (or that holding US dollars is too expensive [because if loses value every year]) the US dollar could crash really fast.

Bah, just got to print a USD2 with this simple calculation that USD2 = 10000000 USD.
Then you print a bit of money and it all goes smooth xD

Dont rename it, because then people realize that its devalued.

Devalue it, and cut the zeroes, but dont rename the currency, that way you can fool the people continuously.

You create confusion and then people decide not to hold your worthless paper.
They would rather hold gold.

Barnabe

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 503

★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!

Quote from: RealBitcoin on February 10, 2016, 11:11:43 AM

Quote from: yugo23 on February 10, 2016, 04:43:12 AM

Quote from: Barnabe on February 09, 2016, 12:10:43 PM

Quote from: onlinedragon on February 09, 2016, 12:03:46 PM

THe world economy depends to much on that from the VS. The dept is really high but so far that was never a problem to just press more money.

But do you think it should continue this way ?
The US has been printing *a lot* of money the last few years. They are trying to export little by little their debt to the world.
A lot of people are noticing this more and more, if they think it's not profitable anymore (or that holding US dollars is too expensive [because if loses value every year]) the US dollar could crash really fast.

Bah, just got to print a USD2 with this simple calculation that USD2 = 10000000 USD.
Then you print a bit of money and it all goes smooth xD

Dont rename it, because then people realize that its devalued.

Devalue it, and cut the zeroes, but dont rename the currency, that way you can fool the people continuously.

That's what Brazil did for years, it works for a while, but you can't fool everybody like this forever. After some time people notice fiat money is useless and use other means to store value (gold or silver for instance)

Barnabe

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Activity: 616

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Quote from: yugo23 on February 10, 2016, 04:45:47 AM

Quote from: Barnabe on February 09, 2016, 11:59:48 AM

Quote from: Laosai on February 06, 2016, 08:12:39 PM

Yeah but you forget something.

See in our peaceful world, people tend to think that money is power.
What they forget, is that money isn't power, military power is power.

Yes we're in debt, and so?
Imagine tomorrow EU and USA say "ok sorry we don't want to repay, you've earned far enough with the decades of interest we already paid so now we say stop and won't pay anything more".

What would happen?

All other countries stop exporting to EU and US, a lot of people die from hunger of lack of other goods. And the other countries would also stop repaying which means that a lot of actives in occident (retirement funds, investment funds and so on) would be worth a lot less.

IMO military is dependant on economy, not the opposite.

Yeah sure, and where would they export if they stop exporting to EU and US?

And by the way, EU and US produce enough food for themselves.
Oh sure we would have less Nutella, but die from hunger? I don't think so.
And we wouldn't have Iphone anymore but is it really mandatory?

I'd say it would even clean our way of life a lot. Go back to the basis. Food, energy and internet. That's enough!
It would also completly stop the unemployment in US and EU Grin

With the actual consumption of Europe and US I doubt they could produce enough food (I couldn't find any number though), but I guess if habits change and for instance meat consumption lowers it could be possible.

And maybe we even couldn't have internet...
In Europe there is no uranium production and there is not enough oil to keep our cars going, we are highly dependent on importations.
Iphones is just a small anecdote, but we wouldn't have any asphalt, iron, steel, aluminum, rare earths (and a lot of other elements), machinery, textiles and so on.
It would take decades to develop these sectors again, in the meanwhile a lot of people would die and life conditions would decay very quickly.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: yugo23 on February 10, 2016, 04:43:12 AM

Quote from: Barnabe on February 09, 2016, 12:10:43 PM

Quote from: onlinedragon on February 09, 2016, 12:03:46 PM

THe world economy depends to much on that from the VS. The dept is really high but so far that was never a problem to just press more money.

But do you think it should continue this way ?
The US has been printing *a lot* of money the last few years. They are trying to export little by little their debt to the world.
A lot of people are noticing this more and more, if they think it's not profitable anymore (or that holding US dollars is too expensive [because if loses value every year]) the US dollar could crash really fast.

Bah, just got to print a USD2 with this simple calculation that USD2 = 10000000 USD.
Then you print a bit of money and it all goes smooth xD

Dont rename it, because then people realize that its devalued.

Devalue it, and cut the zeroes, but dont rename the currency, that way you can fool the people continuously.

Topic: US Debt Has Exploded - page 5. (Read 10025 times)