US Tariff Ruling N297495 = 2.6% mandatory tariff on bitcoin mining hardware

jaforakhans

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[/b]

Searing

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Clueless!

I looked on https://www.asicminervalue.com/miners/bitmain/antminer-s19-pro-110th

May 2020 due

110Th/s bitmain

3250W

75db

SHA-256

$2.84 /day as of this moment. Add the tariff and the fact that halving is what 6 weeks away? By the time you get this all things the same will be half of this? indeed at these prices after halving ...well I won't go there. The above is at 10c kWh, but even at 1/2 of that in power it still sucks big time even without tariff with halving. Sad

but IMHO, the tariffs will stay, to get rid of the tariffs would mean Trump would have to admit they had 'hampered' trade and not helped the USA which is counter to all he has said the last year...anyway as I see this...politically folk are not paying attention to it so why bring it up?...he will let it lie IMHO.

brad

edit: wrong price above at 10c kWh corrected such.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

I wonder if trump will jack tarriff due to corona-v

or if he will suspend the tarriff due to corona-v

Gabrics

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Just digging around

Does anyone have any news about the CBP complaint about the tariff with the reasoning "no (US) compatible product" went anywhere?
(I guess not as the tariff is still alive)

Searing

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Clueless!

Yeah, forgot to mention it is good the other 10% was not added on to this. But Phase one is simply (mostly) agriculture, which in 20/20 hindsight probably neither China nor the USA would ever go down that road again, too much backlash. Better to just have the 25% on more or less everything to 'dilute' the backlash. Those 'pesky' farmers were noisy, on news and all, as a specific united group. I see under the classification now ASIC's are called 'electronic components' or some such. Which is too bad because there was some talk of exempting I think it was laptops for Christmas a while back? (Not sure if desktops).

Anyway, that would maybe be the next thing taken out of the tariff IMHO, but we are gonna, 'specific' consumer products by name, to lessen the pressure. miss that loophole I guess. I'm just 'wizing in the creek' here ..not like at these prices for ASIC equipment, even without the tariffs, at 10c kWh electric I could realistically spring for any equipment anyway. But, like an old 'retired' HOME ASIC miner (now defunct species) I like to follow my quaint historical past and/or see how others with better options are dealing with all this.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

staying at 25% is better then adding 10% penalty on dec 15th.

and they actually claim to have a phase one agreement.

Searing

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Clueless!

Unsure what you mean if the "25% Tariff remains as is" which is probably most stuff that is not related ro Agriculture. Sad

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: ?? on ??

the whole tariff is based on fud.

Okay looks like some action

from Sara Cook on twitter

https://twitter.com/saraecook/status/1205513023500300288

from prez Trump

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1205509125788098560

not sure if this links will work but it apppears to moving in a better direction.

Biffa

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 29, 2019, 06:40:18 AM

Part of the issue is theft of IP which China is pretty famous for or at least has been accused of doing.

Whether you build in China India or Mexico vs USA the smaller customer gets stuck one way or the other.

But if you only build in 1 country you don't have any flexibility to negotiate with the factory/government location.

If Apple had factories in China ,India, Mexico and USA vs Factories in China it gives them more flexibility to tell any location fuck you I will lower production here and ramp it up in other country.

It also helps lower theft of IP since if it happens while using the China location apple can say fuck you I will reduce production next year to punish you for theft of IP.

Sounds like FUD to me. I'll leave it at that, don't want to derail the thread too much Grin

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Part of the issue is theft of IP which China is pretty famous for or at least has been accused of doing.

Whether you build in China India or Mexico vs USA the smaller customer gets stuck one way or the other.

But if you only build in 1 country you don't have any flexibility to negotiate with the factory/government location.

If Apple had factories in China ,India, Mexico and USA vs Factories in China it gives them more flexibility to tell any location fuck you I will lower production here and ramp it up in other country.

It also helps lower theft of IP since if it happens while using the China location apple can say fuck you I will reduce production next year to punish you for theft of IP.

Biffa

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Quote from: Philipma1957cellphone on November 28, 2019, 09:55:41 AM

or usa companies leave china and use India for cheap labor. Thus china is a big loser. As to this happening ask guys like Tim Cook. Frankly I don't hate the tax I rather us set up factories inside India. This would give usa two spots to build goods to send here. Not just china. Not a big fan of usa companies that only use china to build gear. Fuck them.

I thought the entire point of this was to get US companies to manufacture in the US using US labour. Of course that won't actually help much because it will just mean more products will still be more expensive because people in the US won't work for the sort of money that people in China/India/Mexico etc will work for, so the US companies will just have to charge more because their labour costs are higher, and the consumer will have to pay more.

Philipma1957cellphone

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Always wanted to visit Singapore would love to see usa get more building and exporting from them.

minefarmbuy

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We are not retail.

Korea or Singapore would be best regarding duties specifically.

Philipma1957cellphone

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or usa companies leave china and use India for cheap labor. Thus china is a big loser. As to this happening ask guys like Tim Cook. Frankly I don't hate the tax I rather us set up factories inside India. This would give usa two spots to build goods to send here. Not just china. Not a big fan of usa companies that only use china to build gear. Fuck them.

Searing

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Clueless!

Again, if you want to delve into economic detail google on why China has the advantage of this tariff, besides it benefiting China.

1) China has very little to worry about from the tariff side from their buying..it is the other way around.

2) China has a growing trade surplus with the USA so that also mitigates the tariff from China's point of view.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/14/china-2018-full-year-december-trade-exports-imports-trade-balance.html

3) China can do more infrastructure projects on a quick say so, as a centralized economy and that also mitigates the tariff's effects as well.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2183977/china-ramps-infrastructure-spend-stave-economic-slowdown-and

4) China manipulates Yuan currency to also mitigate tariff's influence

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/business/economy/us-china-yuan-renminbi-trump.html

5) Of course, China also uses Capitalism as a means to keep power. If they needed to, they would toss markets under the bus further to keep Communist party in power.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2119839/how-communist-china-has-embraced-capitalism-remains-leninist

We, the USA have as our only 'real' lever the imprefect shooting ourselves in the foot consumers eating the tariff costs as our redress. No way in hell, unfortunately, can China not win this battle. The Communist party of china does not care about profits, but eventually, the USA will crack and get rid of tariffs giving even more power to China in the economic front. I hope I'm wrong, but this whole mess tariff and otherwise is gonna end badly. We should have kept with the allies and the large asian pacific trade deals. As it is, we shot our load with tariffs and now have to eat the consequences.

My own view is the tariffs will continue into the Spring of 2021 if there is a new Presidential administration. We are likely stuck till then, again, IMHO.

mgoz

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Quote from: STT on November 26, 2019, 11:06:03 PM

Is it true to say the consumer is paying the tariffs not the makers or originating nation.

Yes. This is exactly how tariffs work. The importer pays them, not the country of origin. If you are a consumer importing directly, you're paying 100% of the tariffs to U.S. customs. If you're buying from a re-seller that imported the goods, then they are marking up the goods to offset the tariffs that they paid to U.S. customs. Tariffs primarily hurt the consumer. They only hurt the manufacturers if the tariffs are high enough to make people no longer want to import. While Trump claims China is paying the tariffs, that's simply not true. China pays absolutely nothing on his tariffs. It's 100% on the importer. The billions he claims that are paid by China are actually paid by U.S. importers. He's just clueless.

Searing

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Quote from: STT on November 26, 2019, 11:06:03 PM

Is it true to say the consumer is paying the tariffs not the makers or originating nation. China has supposedly devalued their currency to account for some of the difference but I'm not sure thats helped. If the hardware can be used anywhere in the world then the only people its hurting is the country operating the tariffs so its basically another form of taxation on those particular goods.

Well, this recent article says that is exactly what China is doing to offset tariffs.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3013678/china-letting-value-yuan-slide-offset-trade-war-tariffs-us

China also 'doubles' infrastructure projects to offset tariffs

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3033564/china-doubles-value-infrastructure-project-approvals-stave

The catch is China has many more options to play with as a quick-acting centralized system to counteract any tariff effects by the USA. The above also does not account for the other thing China has....trade surplus per year on top of the above.

Anyway, how it looks are ASIC tariffs are gonna be here for quite a while yet. Then even if the tariffs go away, the USA still has to account for the other advantages China has above.

sh*t

Brad

STT

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Is it true to say the consumer is paying the tariffs not the makers or originating nation. China has supposedly devalued their currency to account for some of the difference but I'm not sure thats helped. If the hardware can be used anywhere in the world then the only people its hurting is the country operating the tariffs so its basically another form of taxation on those particular goods.

Searing

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Clueless!

Thanks, I was more than a bit, befuddled.

As far as I can tell from the news the 10% increase in China tariffs is still gonna go into effect on December 15th, unless some miracle happens, here in the USA.

Man, the 25% tariff is just one of like 20 or so clusterf*cks going on in the USA as we speak, sheesh...I wonder if the talk is true on more tariffs on the EU as well?

mgoz

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The chart linked shows it as a 2.6%. The 35% and what's in column 2 only applies to products from Korea and Cuba. Section 301 is still 25%, so it's still 27.6% total. You just add what's in column 1 with what Section 301 ruling is. 8543.70.99 was listed in the June 2018 $16 Billion Trade Action (List 2) proposed listing here and has not changed: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2018-13248.pdf

This is the August 2018 notice of action listing and when it went into effect:
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/2018-17709.pdf

Topic: US Tariff Ruling N297495 = 2.6% mandatory tariff on bitcoin mining hardware (Read 26790 times)