Topic: User banned - Possibly misunderstanding the idea of a regular social bounty - page 2. (Read 867 times)

Just cause the forum accepts altcoins for services (AFAIK it's only GRIN for Copper Membership and paying the evil-fee; not aware of any other case where altcoins are accepted by the forum) doesn't mean altcoin giveaways are allowed. That's not how forum policy works. You could try to make that argument to theymos but we, as mods, can't just go up and say "well if you accept altcoins, everyone should be able to incentivize posting for altcoins".

personally the problem is very simple btc can not be used for small payments .

so does the forum finally allow some alts to pay.

since it already does .  i am sure theymos takes alts for forum payments so mods  need to adjust and adapt



ie allow ltc .

edit:
 I cant find the post that says forum takes alt coins so if it was removed
and forum does not take any coin I stand corrected

It simply wasn't reported. It's now been trashed and the creator temp banned.

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As per how other altcoin-part-bitcoin giveaways in Games and Rounds have been handled by theymos in the past, only the OP gets banned. Participants do get banned if the thread was originally posted in the altcoin sections (due to the warnings plastered all over there's no good excuse as to why the participant "didn't know").

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There's plenty of exceptions to be made in other rules where enforcing it to the letter would violate the spirit of the rule (and I've marked numerous reports as bad that have tried to use the letter of the rules to attack users they didn't like). However, from both what's written and from what I've observed (in how theymos has dealt with altcoin giveaways both in and outside the altcoin sections), there are no exceptions to this rule (for the organizers). If you incentivize posting in a thread for altcoins in a way that is more reminiscent of a giveaway rather than a bounty that requires substantial effort to complete, you will be banned and your thread - trashed. This isn't the first altcoin-part-bitcoin giveaway posted in Games and Rounds I've issued a ban for and AFAIK not a single creator of such a giveaway had their ban removed by theymos.

Now, theymos is free to change his mind at any point and decide that cases like these don't deserve as harsh of a punishment as similar offenses but he has given me no reason or indication to think so. If he does change his mind and / or informs me that these exact situations are an exception to the rule, I'll gladly adjust my moderation.

Fully agree with Royse777 here. I do agree that even if the thread was moved to BIN, the user should never have been banned considering he already had an escrow hired and was serious about his doing. I know the rule doesn't allow you to give LTC or any coin for that matter, but as a human not as a robot, you need to understand why he is giving away LTC and that was solely to avoid BTC transaction fees being 10x than the BTC transacted.

If you start banning users like that, I am afraid people will stop doing giveaways and a good section of our forum will become haunted.

Honestly speaking, your understanding and interpretation of rules are going over my head (maybe my level of intellectuality is way lower than you). Maybe we can draw a line in disagreement because clearly we are looking this case from completely two different angles. Your focus in on the ALT coin part and my focus (and perhaps others too) is on the Bitcoin part. You are more into finding a little fault (not sure indeed it was there) and ban hammer a user by not caring about anything and without even looking at details and I (perhaps other too) are more into being open and give enough thought before taking any negative action.

But eventually your one will stand because you are playing an official rule. Just make sure that you don't make this space hard for genuine crypto lovers, bitcoin enthusiasts. Bitcoin still has a long way to go, and we need to ensure that we are helping to make this community bigger.

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The piece of rule we have (let's not highlight any part of it, just be it the way it is)

The topic in question: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/giving-bitcoin-to-ppl-that-post-the-following-on-elons-twitter-5338426
Since deleted, the final contents of the topic (read quoted part since that was the final agreement) :  https://paste.ee/p/dEwKE

The reaction/opinion from the members who have given in this thread -

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Let's forget what others are thinking or interpreting the rule/situation let's just point what mprep and hilariousandco (both global moderator after all) considering unofficial rule number 23.

Eventually this is where we stand

You have every right to disagree but actually they just DON'T want any kind of altcoins giveaway in that section even if the intention is to pay BTC but because of the transaction fees, they have to pay altcoins.

My opinion doesn't matter but I think it would have been better handled had the OP been given a warning and asked to either remove the altcoins from the giveaway or just separate it into 2 different sections. One for BTC and the other in altcoin bounties for ALTS.

I didn't report it either because I thought it was a sweet attempt and was paid too. But when I see this happened, I had to bring it

I guess nobody reported it. I saw the thread, but since it's an established altcoin, I decided not to report it anymore. Banning OP and participants for this seems excessive to me.

Even though I disagree, I commend mprep for being very consequent in applying the rules. I bet he'd ban theymos too if he would have opened the thread.

Very interesting topic and I wonder what saved this thread from being deleted? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/20-doge-if-you-can-answer-my-question-1-merit-5337562

(it's kind of a giveaway to me, users were asked to find a song/tune posted and whoever finds it, gets 20 dogecoins and a merit)

I love the openness from the moderators to explain why they delete a post and thread, doesn't happen everywhere, really appreciate it.

It was moved to the appropriate board - the Trashcan. Had this giveaway been started in Bounties (Altcoins), the participants who applied for the LTC part of the giveaway would've been suspended as well (albeit for a much shorter period of time). What I was trying to highlight with the "wrong board" comment was that the onus of seeking out the (seemingly) appropriate board is on him and not doing so doesn't exempt him from the rules of a board where similar content (bounty campaigns that pay out altcoins) is located in. By not doing so, he violated 3 rules:

The amount he's paying is irrelevant - it's what he's paying for (one-off low effort tasks that involve posting in the thread in exchange for altcoins). That's already prohibited and would've had your Bounties (Altcoins) thread trashed with you and your bounty's participants being temp banned.

Were we to make an exception for giveaways that payout "large" (which, again, is really subjective) amounts of BTC in addition to altcoins, you could pretend to give away huge quantities of BTC while also slotting in a promotion for whatever altcoin you see fit. You pay out the altcoins immediately and promise to pay out the BTC at the end of the campaign. You run the campaign for as long as you want and then disappear once you no longer need promotion for your selected altcoin. At which point you've not only dodged the spirit of the rule (technically, only breaking the rule once you disappear because you didn't actually give away BTC) but also scammed a bunch of people. Do note that I'm not implying this is the case, I'm merely highlighting a hypothetical situation.

Now, you could argue that there should be an exception for established altcoins as there's very little incentive to run such giveaways (as opposed to a new token running an ICO / IEO / I-whatever-O), but in the eyes of the forum (or I guess theymos specifically) there isn't. When it comes to giveaways - there's BTC and then there's altcoins (no matter how big or small). A different issue pops up with making exceptions if the BTC is escrowed - who do you consider as trustworthy escrows in the eyes of the rules / moderation. At that point, albeit not directly, we have to start moderating escrow scams (which doesn't seem like something theymos would want, considering that scammer tags have been deprecated for a rather long time) with the potential side effect of carving out a forum-approved escrow cartel that can make your bitcoin-part-altcoin be able to exist on the forum (as opposed to it just being trashed and you temp-banned).

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Same rules would apply. As I've mentioned, I trashed numerous bounties paying altcoins in exchange for doing low effort tasks + posting in the thread (be it as a direct requirement or as proof of authentication). This restriction doesn't apply to all social media bounty tasks though and that's mentioned in the thread linked in the ban message:

Games and Rounds is under the direct jurisdiction of Cyrus and hilariousandco, which is why I'd rather avoid stickying anything there myself (IIRC I've only ever stickied threads in the altcoin sections; even the unnoficial rules thread was stickied by a different mod). So while I (as a global mod) technically could, I feel like that'd be pretty rude. It is a pretty good idea though - I'll have to get in contact with Cyrus and hilariousandco to see what they think.

The thread in question appears to have been originally posted in games and rounds. IMO, it would be best to post a sticky in this sub clarifying that altcoin giveaways are not allowed anywhere in the forum. Over the years, various altcoin giveaways have been posted in the games and rounds sub, and it probably would not be unreasonable for forum members to be unaware of this rule.

For those that disagree with the altcoin giveaway rule, one compromise may be that the forum could charge for the ability to host an on-forum altcoin giveaway. Giveaway threads are resource-intensive because they cause many page-views and many posts that do not substantially contribute to the bitcoin ecosystem. I am not necessarily in favor of altcoin giveaways being allowed, however if someone was covering the forum's cost of hosting said giveaways, I would have no issue with them.

I wonder why wasn't it moved to the right board? Either Service or Bounty (altcoin). Wouldn't that be a better solution than banning and removing a topic from a new member who is genuinely interested to do something for Bitcoin? The payment had two forms: LTC and BTC. Why only considered LTC (negative) side but not BTC (positive) side?

Let me mark bold from the same quote which makes it right if you would move that to Bounty (altcoin) considering you have missed that he is paying $200 worth of BTC in BTC for a tweet.


I understand he is a busy bee and perhaps has his priorities so don't mind him much. It's obvious that he handles gigantic number of PMs and other form of inquiries every day.

I don't often PM theymos, and when I do I don't always get a response. But I'm pretty sure he'll at least read your PM, especially if he recognizes your username. If you get ignored, you kinda have an answer too.
However, I've seen theymos put in a lot of effort in some cases where a user was banned or a posted deleted by mistake.

The guy loves attention
Even if it would be a problem, wouldn't it be Twitter's problem to deal with? Just like the 5,080,501 other posts dedicated to spamming Twitter?

I issued the ban. Quote from the thread:


The user in question posting the thread in the wrong board is on them and the only thing this changes is that the participants didn't get bannned (as per how theymos handled a similar case in the past). The effect of this giveaway is the same as many others that had their threads trashed and their accounts temp banned: a low barrier of entry and an incentive to post for altcoins. The ban issued was of the same duration as similar offenses in the past. While I personally wouldn't be against lowering the duration to 14 days, I didn't feel like it was my call to decide on exceptions based on favoritism or subjective assessments of what's "cool". That's something you're going to have to petition theymos for.

The thread was brought to my attention via a report. So if you notice any similar giveaways (in Bounties (Altcoins) or other boards), feel free to report them.

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From what I've heard, the mining boards have much stricter moderation compared to most other sections. If you think they're going overboard, I'd suggest either starting a Meta thread about it or PMing theymos and / or Cyrus.

This gets real interesting. Perhaps Elon deployed some countermeasures? 

Well it could be seen as paying people to spam Elon. I can remove the ban but it's best to find out who banned him first.

No I did not, I was not intending too as I moved on from that one. Besides, do you think theymos actually give response to the PMs. Once in a 100 times maybe he does which is not very good gesture (sorry no disrespect buddy, maybe you have priorities).

If  you check the unedited archives (https://ninjastic.space/topic/5338426) it does not seem to have any spam attack or such things. It was in the Games and rounds sub, but it should be better in either Service or Altcoin (Bounty) board.

PS: If you have the authority then please review the ban against the user too. And let us know.

Cheers buddy.

What sub was it in? Maybe it was a mistake as it doesn't seem to be against the rules, unless someone counted it as a paid spam attack or something.

I think the decision to ban onemd and delete the topic was totally unfair. If "Incentivising posting within specific threads via low effort tasks for altcoins" was the reason they used, then why are other altcoin bounties where people post bounty reports not deleted, and topic starters banned too?

The topic in question is similar to any other bounty.

This is my concern too.

I think only theymos can help you here. Did you send him a PM after your previous topic?

Since original post is deleted I can only the content of the from paste.ee link. So the tweet in question was ..


If the user is banned because of this tweet related bounty I strongly believe there must be some misunderstanding... even the tweet itself is very polite and to the point. It's not bullying or targeted defaming. It's a simple fact and related to bitcoin marketing. Not much different from any other bounty requesting to promote a service or a twitter account of exchange etc.

I guess the user in question deserves proper explantion for his ban... after all this will help the other too, if there is any hidden rule which we are missing.

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Regarding the other rule for BTC/LTC payment in Game & Rounds clearly make sense and this should not be in altcoin section. Dust payment is not an issue of bitcoin, bounty owner should know this by default and setting the appropriate payment amount considering the dust is part of bitcoin giveaways.