VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD - page 113.

YGung

full member

Activity: 318

Merit: 100

Quote from: Masiah on July 08, 2017, 06:47:39 PM

Quote from: streetgainer on July 08, 2017, 05:35:58 PM

Quote from: CryptoXMan on July 07, 2017, 08:10:39 AM

and... Reggie... mike drop.

I think by using the word "published", this guy confused his point. I think he means "released". What he's trying to say is that he's afraid of the largest wallet holder, that being Reggie, dumping coins into the $VERI market. This phenomenon has been a MAJOR pet peeve amongst $XRP investors and buyers, to the point where the Ripple CEO had to release a pledge to not dilute the $XRP market.... http://www.coindesk.com/ripple-pledges-lock-14-billion-xrp-cryptocurrency/ this is real concern!!

I'm a $VERI holder, so I believe in this project. I've been following Reggie since his BBB days, and if you don't know what the initial's BBB represent then you haven't been following Reggie Middleton for long. Amongst many things, there is one thing I have learned the most from his publishings, and that is to NOT be sheepish. Always look under the hood, and be cautious when the crowd is chanting buy, buy, buy!! So I like to sometimes play devils advocate even for projects I support. This keeps me balanced and objective. So here's my devils advocate position I hope some of you can address...

I'm not concerned with the dilution issue the other poster has raised, as I believe Reggie knows better than anyone else what the imbalance of supply to demand can do to a market, for better and for worse. Example: He released a note on the collapse of oil (despite OPEC's promise to cut) that is so astonishingly accurate today, that it's f'king creepy!!.... but here's the kicker, he released this note over a year ago.. https://blog.veritaseum.com/current-analysis/1-blog/180-as-experts-speculators-await-higher-oil-prices-i-anticipate-a-new-energy-paradigm-monetize-your-outlook-through-veritaseum. So Reggie Middleton knows imbalance when he sees imbalance and I'm sure he won't go there.

My concern is his decision to run his coin under the Ethererum chain. The ERC20, where every ICO, and their mothers uncles brothers ICO is popping up!
I believe that this may be causing price problems for $eth, to put it mildly, and will invariably affect it going forward as more and more ICO's hit. Here's a good discussion thread on the issue.. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/6ih5wc/icos_and_their_effect_of_eth_prices/

That being said, what happens to the price of $VERI, when the price of $ETH collapses back to... let's say... $50USD?.... I know what you're thinking... "WHAT?!! WHO!!?? WHERE??!!!...NO WAY IT GOES BACK TO $50!!!..."

Well, it can happen, and most likely will. So has anyone looked to see if there is any correlation in the movement of $VERI to $ETH?... There's a world of difference between .55 veri/eth cost, when $ETH is at $245USD, then there is when $ETH goes to $50.

By being an ERC20 coin $VERI is in a muddy pool right now. When $ETH blows, I don't think there's an ERC20 coin that will be immune. This is my concern!
He should have established his coin on a BTC Sidechain.

Your thoughts and comments are welcomed.

If the price of ETH decreases and demand for VERI remains the same the VERI/ETH price will simply increase. For example, in countries with high inflation rates their food doesn't become cheaper, the price of the food in that particular unit of account simply increases. Also VERI can be moved to other blockchains if the ethereum blockchain is no longer the best option.

Pretty much totally agree with that take.

Ey Reggie, lol, you should've never called it the wolverine of tokens man, now every time I talk to my boys about VERI I gotta introduce it as the wolverine of tokens now.

CONTRARIAN BADASS
CONTRARIAN BADASS

REGGIEEEEEEEE
REGGIEEEEEEEE MIDDLETOOONNNNNN

Masiah

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

Quote from: streetgainer on July 08, 2017, 05:35:58 PM

Quote from: CryptoXMan on July 07, 2017, 08:10:39 AM

Quote from: Reggie Middleton on July 07, 2017, 07:38:14 AM

Quote from: toknormal on July 06, 2017, 08:05:18 PM

Ok. Comical interlude over.

I apologise for winding you up @paulmaritz. I should not have done that as it isn't my intention to use these posts to make people feel uncomfortable.

But lets take stock as to who is the real troll here.

I have been contributing considered opinion, often accompanied by some reasonable argument and the odd bit of anecdotal illustration and calculation. I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers. I've also been careful not to use the "s" word, nor have I dismissed this token's fundamentals, which I believe to be sound, and nor have I "ad hominem'd" anybody as far as I'm aware.

What have you contributed of illuminating value ? You posted that coinmarketcom quote which was useful - I hadn't seen that. Apart form that, a large amount of handwaving and pictures of trolls.

So maybe a truce would be fruitful plus a more constructive appraisal of the matter at hand.

The issue as I see it is that when you have a single holder with a large amount of asset to sell in an illiquid market you need some kind of market leader to act as a price discovery mechanism so you can go and negotiate with 'large buyers' and make so called 'institutional sales'. (Which are not actually institutional at all since there are no institutions regulating them, they're just sales).

That was the role of the ICO and subsequent market rise on tiny volume.

What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates and large volumes which come from outside the published coin supply but which effectively qualify as 'circulating supply' since the tokens have now been distributed. This is great for large investors but for small investors there is considerably more risk from 2 sources:

1. a step change in published supply invoking a large and abrupt correction to the downside in token exchange rate to compensate for marketcap growth

2. an arbitrage driven correction between OTC and Exchange markets

I'm not necessarily saying that this will happen, I'm just pointing out that this risk is carried disproportionally by the small investor because:

• they do not gain from the liquidity increase (as the ICO issuer does)
• they do not gain from the OTC discount (as the 'institutional buyer' does)

Sure, it may all work out and as has been pointed out, some other assets do this to a limited extent. But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental (which is why I suggested the policy of marketcap reporting is being 'gamed') and its something that no investor has control over. Their interests do depend on things staying that way as far as I can see.

Quote from: KLN_IT on July 06, 2017, 07:52:41 PM

Litecoin has 84,000,000 million coins but they are currently only at 51,000,000 million...why are you not calling LTC a scam or XRP, or BTC or any others for that matter?

Because Litecoin is a mined coin. The 84,000,000 don't currently exist whereas the 100,000,000 VERI do, are currently in a wallet and ready to be sold at the holder's whim. There's no "2 Million liquid supply" and "98 million illiquid supply". There's just a 100 Million token wallet with a single holder.

I won't call you a troll. You actually do raise some points worth considering. The problem is that you are disseminating opinion as fact, and it is incorrect and simply wrong. For instance, you said "What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates".
That's simply incorrect. Ask anyone who has purchased in bulk, they will tell you that thus far we have sold at a "premium" to the so-called "token-to-coin exchange rates", not a discount. You see, the problem is that you do not understand the business model of Veritaseum. It is a software solutions and financial engineering platform, and not a make believe faux security. You reasoning keeps defaulting to the latter, despite my and others having corrected you several times.

You also stated "I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers."
It is apparent that you have not traded in anything similar to Veritaseum with a economic platform business model or you would realize that the more the merrier (you know, Metcalfe's Law, and all...). Again, you are consistently looking at the economics as a inflationary item count or some sort of dilutive effect similar to traded equities. That is almost the antithesis of what we have here. Basically you don't get it, but you are obvisouly an intelligent guy, so it is apparent that you can get it. This leads to troll comments from others in the forum, because it seems as if you don't want to get it.

The biggest visible distribution from "reggie's wallet" of tokens thus far would be the proposed Jamaican Stock Exchange deal. That caused VERI price to more than double, So here, we have a real world example of what you declaring, yet the real world effect is the opposite of what you are asserting. There are many more deals in the pipeline, most are as large, and many are larger than the JSE deal. I would expect a pop with each deal as the network effect grows stronger, but you will be left in a lurch as you look at things from a value dilutive perspective. It's accretive, if anything.

You also stated "But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental ". That comment is nonsensical. The entire issuance is published, it's called the blockchain - the point of this entire exercise. Isn't that how you came to find out about the amount? Everyone else in the world can do the same thing.

and... Reggie... mike drop.

I think by using the word "published", this guy confused his point. I think he means "released". What he's trying to say is that he's afraid of the largest wallet holder, that being Reggie, dumping coins into the $VERI market. This phenomenon has been a MAJOR pet peeve amongst $XRP investors and buyers, to the point where the Ripple CEO had to release a pledge to not dilute the $XRP market.... http://www.coindesk.com/ripple-pledges-lock-14-billion-xrp-cryptocurrency/ this is real concern!!

I'm a $VERI holder, so I believe in this project. I've been following Reggie since his BBB days, and if you don't know what the initial's BBB represent then you haven't been following Reggie Middleton for long. Amongst many things, there is one thing I have learned the most from his publishings, and that is to NOT be sheepish. Always look under the hood, and be cautious when the crowd is chanting buy, buy, buy!! So I like to sometimes play devils advocate even for projects I support. This keeps me balanced and objective. So here's my devils advocate position I hope some of you can address...

I'm not concerned with the dilution issue the other poster has raised, as I believe Reggie knows better than anyone else what the imbalance of supply to demand can do to a market, for better and for worse. Example: He released a note on the collapse of oil (despite OPEC's promise to cut) that is so astonishingly accurate today, that it's f'king creepy!!.... but here's the kicker, he released this note over a year ago.. https://blog.veritaseum.com/current-analysis/1-blog/180-as-experts-speculators-await-higher-oil-prices-i-anticipate-a-new-energy-paradigm-monetize-your-outlook-through-veritaseum. So Reggie Middleton knows imbalance when he sees imbalance and I'm sure he won't go there.

My concern is his decision to run his coin under the Ethererum chain. The ERC20, where every ICO, and their mothers uncles brothers ICO is popping up!
I believe that this may be causing price problems for $eth, to put it mildly, and will invariably affect it going forward as more and more ICO's hit. Here's a good discussion thread on the issue.. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/6ih5wc/icos_and_their_effect_of_eth_prices/

That being said, what happens to the price of $VERI, when the price of $ETH collapses back to... let's say... $50USD?.... I know what you're thinking... "WHAT?!! WHO!!?? WHERE??!!!...NO WAY IT GOES BACK TO $50!!!..."

Well, it can happen, and most likely will. So has anyone looked to see if there is any correlation in the movement of $VERI to $ETH?... There's a world of difference between .55 veri/eth cost, when $ETH is at $245USD, then there is when $ETH goes to $50.

By being an ERC20 coin $VERI is in a muddy pool right now. When $ETH blows, I don't think there's an ERC20 coin that will be immune. This is my concern!
He should have established his coin on a BTC Sidechain.

Your thoughts and comments are welcomed.

If the price of ETH decreases and demand for VERI remains the same the VERI/ETH price will simply increase. For example, in countries with high inflation rates their food doesn't become cheaper, the price of the food in that particular unit of account simply increases. Also VERI can be moved to other blockchains if the ethereum blockchain is no longer the best option.

azmojo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 251

I don't think Reggie has enough VERI. I'm not sure what quantities he's selling in these deals, but My guess is he's going to want/need every VERI he has to make these big institutional deals, rather than dump them on the market.

streetgainer

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: CryptoXMan on July 07, 2017, 08:10:39 AM

Quote from: Reggie Middleton on July 07, 2017, 07:38:14 AM

Quote from: toknormal on July 06, 2017, 08:05:18 PM

Ok. Comical interlude over.

I apologise for winding you up @paulmaritz. I should not have done that as it isn't my intention to use these posts to make people feel uncomfortable.

But lets take stock as to who is the real troll here.

I have been contributing considered opinion, often accompanied by some reasonable argument and the odd bit of anecdotal illustration and calculation. I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers. I've also been careful not to use the "s" word, nor have I dismissed this token's fundamentals, which I believe to be sound, and nor have I "ad hominem'd" anybody as far as I'm aware.

What have you contributed of illuminating value ? You posted that coinmarketcom quote which was useful - I hadn't seen that. Apart form that, a large amount of handwaving and pictures of trolls.

So maybe a truce would be fruitful plus a more constructive appraisal of the matter at hand.

The issue as I see it is that when you have a single holder with a large amount of asset to sell in an illiquid market you need some kind of market leader to act as a price discovery mechanism so you can go and negotiate with 'large buyers' and make so called 'institutional sales'. (Which are not actually institutional at all since there are no institutions regulating them, they're just sales).

That was the role of the ICO and subsequent market rise on tiny volume.

What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates and large volumes which come from outside the published coin supply but which effectively qualify as 'circulating supply' since the tokens have now been distributed. This is great for large investors but for small investors there is considerably more risk from 2 sources:

1. a step change in published supply invoking a large and abrupt correction to the downside in token exchange rate to compensate for marketcap growth

2. an arbitrage driven correction between OTC and Exchange markets

I'm not necessarily saying that this will happen, I'm just pointing out that this risk is carried disproportionally by the small investor because:

• they do not gain from the liquidity increase (as the ICO issuer does)
• they do not gain from the OTC discount (as the 'institutional buyer' does)

Sure, it may all work out and as has been pointed out, some other assets do this to a limited extent. But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental (which is why I suggested the policy of marketcap reporting is being 'gamed') and its something that no investor has control over. Their interests do depend on things staying that way as far as I can see.

Quote from: KLN_IT on July 06, 2017, 07:52:41 PM

Litecoin has 84,000,000 million coins but they are currently only at 51,000,000 million...why are you not calling LTC a scam or XRP, or BTC or any others for that matter?

Because Litecoin is a mined coin. The 84,000,000 don't currently exist whereas the 100,000,000 VERI do, are currently in a wallet and ready to be sold at the holder's whim. There's no "2 Million liquid supply" and "98 million illiquid supply". There's just a 100 Million token wallet with a single holder.

I won't call you a troll. You actually do raise some points worth considering. The problem is that you are disseminating opinion as fact, and it is incorrect and simply wrong. For instance, you said "What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates".
That's simply incorrect. Ask anyone who has purchased in bulk, they will tell you that thus far we have sold at a "premium" to the so-called "token-to-coin exchange rates", not a discount. You see, the problem is that you do not understand the business model of Veritaseum. It is a software solutions and financial engineering platform, and not a make believe faux security. You reasoning keeps defaulting to the latter, despite my and others having corrected you several times.

You also stated "I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers."
It is apparent that you have not traded in anything similar to Veritaseum with a economic platform business model or you would realize that the more the merrier (you know, Metcalfe's Law, and all...). Again, you are consistently looking at the economics as a inflationary item count or some sort of dilutive effect similar to traded equities. That is almost the antithesis of what we have here. Basically you don't get it, but you are obvisouly an intelligent guy, so it is apparent that you can get it. This leads to troll comments from others in the forum, because it seems as if you don't want to get it.

The biggest visible distribution from "reggie's wallet" of tokens thus far would be the proposed Jamaican Stock Exchange deal. That caused VERI price to more than double, So here, we have a real world example of what you declaring, yet the real world effect is the opposite of what you are asserting. There are many more deals in the pipeline, most are as large, and many are larger than the JSE deal. I would expect a pop with each deal as the network effect grows stronger, but you will be left in a lurch as you look at things from a value dilutive perspective. It's accretive, if anything.

You also stated "But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental ". That comment is nonsensical. The entire issuance is published, it's called the blockchain - the point of this entire exercise. Isn't that how you came to find out about the amount? Everyone else in the world can do the same thing.

and... Reggie... mike drop.

I think by using the word "published", this guy confused his point. I think he means "released". What he's trying to say is that he's afraid of the largest wallet holder, that being Reggie, dumping coins into the $VERI market. This phenomenon has been a MAJOR pet peeve amongst $XRP investors and buyers, to the point where the Ripple CEO had to release a pledge to not dilute the $XRP market.... http://www.coindesk.com/ripple-pledges-lock-14-billion-xrp-cryptocurrency/ this is real concern!!

I'm a $VERI holder, so I believe in this project. I've been following Reggie since his BBB days, and if you don't know what the initial's BBB represent then you haven't been following Reggie Middleton for long. Amongst many things, there is one thing I have learned the most from his publishings, and that is to NOT be sheepish. Always look under the hood, and be cautious when the crowd is chanting buy, buy, buy!! So I like to sometimes play devils advocate even for projects I support. This keeps me balanced and objective. So here's my devils advocate position I hope some of you can address...

I'm not concerned with the dilution issue the other poster has raised, as I believe Reggie knows better than anyone else what the imbalance of supply to demand can do to a market, for better and for worse. Example: He released a note on the collapse of oil (despite OPEC's promise to cut) that is so astonishingly accurate today, that it's f'king creepy!!.... but here's the kicker, he released this note over a year ago.. https://blog.veritaseum.com/current-analysis/1-blog/180-as-experts-speculators-await-higher-oil-prices-i-anticipate-a-new-energy-paradigm-monetize-your-outlook-through-veritaseum. So Reggie Middleton knows imbalance when he sees imbalance and I'm sure he won't go there.

My concern is his decision to run his coin under the Ethererum chain. The ERC20, where every ICO, and their mothers uncles brothers ICO is popping up!
I believe that this may be causing price problems for $eth, to put it mildly, and will invariably affect it going forward as more and more ICO's hit. Here's a good discussion thread on the issue.. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/6ih5wc/icos_and_their_effect_of_eth_prices/

That being said, what happens to the price of $VERI, when the price of $ETH collapses back to... let's say... $50USD?.... I know what you're thinking... "WHAT?!! WHO!!?? WHERE??!!!...NO WAY IT GOES BACK TO $50!!!..."

Well, it can happen, and most likely will. So has anyone looked to see if there is any correlation in the movement of $VERI to $ETH?... There's a world of difference between .55 veri/eth cost, when $ETH is at $245USD, then there is when $ETH goes to $50.

By being an ERC20 coin $VERI is in a muddy pool right now. When $ETH blows, I don't think there's an ERC20 coin that will be immune. This is my concern!
He should have established his coin on a BTC Sidechain.

Your thoughts and comments are welcomed.

dave3

sr. member

Activity: 344

Merit: 250

Holy cow! Somebody is selling?!

azmojo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 251

Quote from: ansenl on July 08, 2017, 01:17:58 PM

Not sure if this has been posted. But here's Reggie's most recent updates!

"I don't think you guys have any idea of the scope of the Veritaseum project. Beleive it or not, it's not even a financial services platform, we just chose to attack that industry's rent seeks first because there are so many of them. It's structurally overpriced and the employees are overpaid. We have many, many oher industry verticals to go after and disintermediate. VERI is the world's most dangerous token! Something like a digital version of Woverine!!!

PS We're boing back to Jamaica in two weeks, AND we're going to another country with one of the largest and most well respected financial systems in the world. They insisted that I come to them for the second because they couldn't get all of their decision makers to come to our offices in NYC at the same time. The meeting (this is the second one, the first was with the president) was set by them for FOUR ours in front of the C-suite decision making committee. This means they are dead serious, I'm offering them a deal that's hard to refuse, and they are top tem in the world.

We also will start selling off real world assets via VERI in a few weeks to a couple of months. These products were requested by hedge funds, one in NYC is over $20B.

Yes, we are working!!!!

I actually have another surprise as well, but I will keep that under the cuff."

Wow. How can anyone be selling right now?
When looking at and comparing various cryptos, one of the points of differentiation is the company/team behind the coin and what they are doing to promote and expand it. A lot of coins have great teams and ambitions, but the RESULTS I see here with VERI are impressive.

Is VERI hiring?

Haddem

member

Activity: 92

Merit: 10

Quote from: ansenl on July 08, 2017, 01:17:58 PM

Not sure if this has been posted. But here's Reggie's most recent updates!

"I don't think you guys have any idea of the scope of the Veritaseum project. Beleive it or not, it's not even a financial services platform, we just chose to attack that industry's rent seeks first because there are so many of them. It's structurally overpriced and the employees are overpaid. We have many, many oher industry verticals to go after and disintermediate. VERI is the world's most dangerous token! Something like a digital version of Woverine!!!

PS We're boing back to Jamaica in two weeks, AND we're going to another country with one of the largest and most well respected financial systems in the world. They insisted that I come to them for the second because they couldn't get all of their decision makers to come to our offices in NYC at the same time. The meeting (this is the second one, the first was with the president) was set by them for FOUR ours in front of the C-suite decision making committee. This means they are dead serious, I'm offering them a deal that's hard to refuse, and they are top tem in the world.

We also will start selling off real world assets via VERI in a few weeks to a couple of months. These products were requested by hedge funds, one in NYC is over $20B.

Yes, we are working!!!!

I actually have another surprise as well, but I will keep that under the cuff."

Complete madness to sell now

ansenl

newbie

Activity: 4

Merit: 0

Not sure if this has been posted. But here's Reggie's most recent updates!

"I don't think you guys have any idea of the scope of the Veritaseum project. Beleive it or not, it's not even a financial services platform, we just chose to attack that industry's rent seeks first because there are so many of them. It's structurally overpriced and the employees are overpaid. We have many, many oher industry verticals to go after and disintermediate. VERI is the world's most dangerous token! Something like a digital version of Woverine!!!

PS We're boing back to Jamaica in two weeks, AND we're going to another country with one of the largest and most well respected financial systems in the world. They insisted that I come to them for the second because they couldn't get all of their decision makers to come to our offices in NYC at the same time. The meeting (this is the second one, the first was with the president) was set by them for FOUR ours in front of the C-suite decision making committee. This means they are dead serious, I'm offering them a deal that's hard to refuse, and they are top tem in the world.

We also will start selling off real world assets via VERI in a few weeks to a couple of months. These products were requested by hedge funds, one in NYC is over $20B.

Yes, we are working!!!!

I actually have another surprise as well, but I will keep that under the cuff."

endchat

sr. member

Activity: 269

Merit: 250

Quote from: WeatlhTransfer on July 08, 2017, 09:56:30 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Fuck off troll!

Paul. Be a better man. OK? Instead of replying and acknowledging the likes you know who rather start posting something about VERI. Some technical or non technical stuff. Like user guide to understand VERI for dummies. Do not waste time on obvious trolls.

I would have to agree..

I have participated and watched (mostly) many threads over the years here on bitcointalk, and its always the same type of fudsters spreading the same BS, some have points, but most are just fluff and harsh words. Perhaps because they feel because they missed out or that their favourite token will fall out of favour. Who knows really, so many motivating factors, especially greed.
All to say that, in the end, a pattern builds and with enough time the real agenda is obvious to veterans of the community.

So Engaging theses types, is acknowledging them, and almost legitimises them in a way.

In the end, Be the better man.

Either point them to DATA to refute their "facts/points/ simple trolling", or, just pretend they are not there.

With the success VERI is having, expect this to ramp up in the future, the time to adapt is now.

WeatlhTransfer

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: ?? on ??

Fuck off troll!

Paul. Be a better man. OK? Instead of replying and acknowledging the likes you know who rather start posting something about VERI. Some technical or non technical stuff. Like user guide to understand VERI for dummies. Do not waste time on obvious trolls.

AltCity

member

Activity: 107

Merit: 10

https://youtu.be/sLAan2iZs_Y

Money never sleeps pal.
This is your wakeup call pal, go to work.

Costix

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

Need to share Mike B s video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVNwzuctlSA&spfreload=10
Thanks Mike for all those updates!

jbl888

member

Activity: 97

Merit: 10

Quote from: Reggie Middleton on July 07, 2017, 07:38:14 AM

Quote from: toknormal on July 06, 2017, 08:05:18 PM

Ok. Comical interlude over.

I apologise for winding you up @paulmaritz. I should not have done that as it isn't my intention to use these posts to make people feel uncomfortable.

But lets take stock as to who is the real troll here.

I have been contributing considered opinion, often accompanied by some reasonable argument and the odd bit of anecdotal illustration and calculation. I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers. I've also been careful not to use the "s" word, nor have I dismissed this token's fundamentals, which I believe to be sound, and nor have I "ad hominem'd" anybody as far as I'm aware.

What have you contributed of illuminating value ? You posted that coinmarketcom quote which was useful - I hadn't seen that. Apart form that, a large amount of handwaving and pictures of trolls.

So maybe a truce would be fruitful plus a more constructive appraisal of the matter at hand.

The issue as I see it is that when you have a single holder with a large amount of asset to sell in an illiquid market you need some kind of market leader to act as a price discovery mechanism so you can go and negotiate with 'large buyers' and make so called 'institutional sales'. (Which are not actually institutional at all since there are no institutions regulating them, they're just sales).

That was the role of the ICO and subsequent market rise on tiny volume.

What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates and large volumes which come from outside the published coin supply but which effectively qualify as 'circulating supply' since the tokens have now been distributed. This is great for large investors but for small investors there is considerably more risk from 2 sources:

1. a step change in published supply invoking a large and abrupt correction to the downside in token exchange rate to compensate for marketcap growth

2. an arbitrage driven correction between OTC and Exchange markets

I'm not necessarily saying that this will happen, I'm just pointing out that this risk is carried disproportionally by the small investor because:

• they do not gain from the liquidity increase (as the ICO issuer does)
• they do not gain from the OTC discount (as the 'institutional buyer' does)

Sure, it may all work out and as has been pointed out, some other assets do this to a limited extent. But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental (which is why I suggested the policy of marketcap reporting is being 'gamed') and its something that no investor has control over. Their interests do depend on things staying that way as far as I can see.

Quote from: KLN_IT on July 06, 2017, 07:52:41 PM

Litecoin has 84,000,000 million coins but they are currently only at 51,000,000 million...why are you not calling LTC a scam or XRP, or BTC or any others for that matter?

Because Litecoin is a mined coin. The 84,000,000 don't currently exist whereas the 100,000,000 VERI do, are currently in a wallet and ready to be sold at the holder's whim. There's no "2 Million liquid supply" and "98 million illiquid supply". There's just a 100 Million token wallet with a single holder.

I won't call you a troll. You actually do raise some points worth considering. The problem is that you are disseminating opinion as fact, and it is incorrect and simply wrong. For instance, you said "What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates".
That's simply incorrect. Ask anyone who has purchased in bulk, they will tell you that thus far we have sold at a "premium" to the so-called "token-to-coin exchange rates", not a discount. You see, the problem is that you do not understand the business model of Veritaseum. It is a software solutions and financial engineering platform, and not a make believe faux security. You reasoning keeps defaulting to the latter, despite my and others having corrected you several times.

You also stated "I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers."
It is apparent that you have not traded in anything similar to Veritaseum with a economic platform business model or you would realize that the more the merrier (you know, Metcalfe's Law, and all...). Again, you are consistently looking at the economics as a inflationary item count or some sort of dilutive effect similar to traded equities. That is almost the antithesis of what we have here. Basically you don't get it, but you are obvisouly an intelligent guy, so it is apparent that you can get it. This leads to troll comments from others in the forum, because it seems as if you don't want to get it.

The biggest visible distribution from "reggie's wallet" of tokens thus far would be the proposed Jamaican Stock Exchange deal. That caused VERI price to more than double, So here, we have a real world example of what you declaring, yet the real world effect is the opposite of what you are asserting. There are many more deals in the pipeline, most are as large, and many are larger than the JSE deal. I would expect a pop with each deal as the network effect grows stronger, but you will be left in a lurch as you look at things from a value dilutive perspective. It's accretive, if anything.

You also stated "But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental ". That comment is nonsensical. The entire issuance is published, it's called the blockchain - the point of this entire exercise. Isn't that how you came to find out about the amount? Everyone else in the world can do the same thing.

Another freakin' badass mic drop from Reggie

Can every idiot savant that comes on here thinking we're under some spell from the "Reggie Cult" be pointed to this post?

Wink

Dorky

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Quote from: Masiah on July 07, 2017, 08:56:05 AM

Quote from: toknormal on July 07, 2017, 01:12:58 AM

Quote from: Masiah on July 06, 2017, 11:25:20 PM

OTC purchases are bought at a premium, currently 10% not a discount.

A premium of 10% over market price ? i.e. you're saying OTC sales are made at 0.75 x 1.1 ETH = 0.82 ETH/ $219 per VERI token ?

Yes

I see only upside in this.

If institutional buyers think of buying cheap at the exchanges to avoid paying the premium, their bulk purchase will move the market significantly, making the OTC price way much more expensive than any premium priced currently. Thus it is beneficial for them to do bulk purchase direct from Veritaseum even at premium. Considering the level of liquidity that we are seeing now with just 2 mil circulating supply, it will be quite a long time before liquidity is minimally sufficient enough for bulk selling. This ensures 2 things: 1) there is no risk of any sharp selloff, and 2) institutions that buy in bulk are assured to be direct consumers of the tokens (instead of traders/speculators).

Masiah

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Quote from: toknormal on July 07, 2017, 01:12:58 AM

Quote from: Masiah on July 06, 2017, 11:25:20 PM

OTC purchases are bought at a premium, currently 10% not a discount.

A premium of 10% over market price ? i.e. you're saying OTC sales are made at 0.75 x 1.1 ETH = 0.82 ETH/ $219 per VERI token ?

Yes

CryptoXMan

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Quote from: Reggie Middleton on July 07, 2017, 07:38:14 AM

Quote from: toknormal on July 06, 2017, 08:05:18 PM

Ok. Comical interlude over.

I apologise for winding you up @paulmaritz. I should not have done that as it isn't my intention to use these posts to make people feel uncomfortable.

But lets take stock as to who is the real troll here.

I have been contributing considered opinion, often accompanied by some reasonable argument and the odd bit of anecdotal illustration and calculation. I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers. I've also been careful not to use the "s" word, nor have I dismissed this token's fundamentals, which I believe to be sound, and nor have I "ad hominem'd" anybody as far as I'm aware.

What have you contributed of illuminating value ? You posted that coinmarketcom quote which was useful - I hadn't seen that. Apart form that, a large amount of handwaving and pictures of trolls.

So maybe a truce would be fruitful plus a more constructive appraisal of the matter at hand.

The issue as I see it is that when you have a single holder with a large amount of asset to sell in an illiquid market you need some kind of market leader to act as a price discovery mechanism so you can go and negotiate with 'large buyers' and make so called 'institutional sales'. (Which are not actually institutional at all since there are no institutions regulating them, they're just sales).

That was the role of the ICO and subsequent market rise on tiny volume.

What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates and large volumes which come from outside the published coin supply but which effectively qualify as 'circulating supply' since the tokens have now been distributed. This is great for large investors but for small investors there is considerably more risk from 2 sources:

1. a step change in published supply invoking a large and abrupt correction to the downside in token exchange rate to compensate for marketcap growth

2. an arbitrage driven correction between OTC and Exchange markets

I'm not necessarily saying that this will happen, I'm just pointing out that this risk is carried disproportionally by the small investor because:

• they do not gain from the liquidity increase (as the ICO issuer does)
• they do not gain from the OTC discount (as the 'institutional buyer' does)

Sure, it may all work out and as has been pointed out, some other assets do this to a limited extent. But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental (which is why I suggested the policy of marketcap reporting is being 'gamed') and its something that no investor has control over. Their interests do depend on things staying that way as far as I can see.

Quote from: KLN_IT on July 06, 2017, 07:52:41 PM

Litecoin has 84,000,000 million coins but they are currently only at 51,000,000 million...why are you not calling LTC a scam or XRP, or BTC or any others for that matter?

Because Litecoin is a mined coin. The 84,000,000 don't currently exist whereas the 100,000,000 VERI do, are currently in a wallet and ready to be sold at the holder's whim. There's no "2 Million liquid supply" and "98 million illiquid supply". There's just a 100 Million token wallet with a single holder.

I won't call you a troll. You actually do raise some points worth considering. The problem is that you are disseminating opinion as fact, and it is incorrect and simply wrong. For instance, you said "What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates".
That's simply incorrect. Ask anyone who has purchased in bulk, they will tell you that thus far we have sold at a "premium" to the so-called "token-to-coin exchange rates", not a discount. You see, the problem is that you do not understand the business model of Veritaseum. It is a software solutions and financial engineering platform, and not a make believe faux security. You reasoning keeps defaulting to the latter, despite my and others having corrected you several times.

You also stated "I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers."
It is apparent that you have not traded in anything similar to Veritaseum with a economic platform business model or you would realize that the more the merrier (you know, Metcalfe's Law, and all...). Again, you are consistently looking at the economics as a inflationary item count or some sort of dilutive effect similar to traded equities. That is almost the antithesis of what we have here. Basically you don't get it, but you are obvisouly an intelligent guy, so it is apparent that you can get it. This leads to troll comments from others in the forum, because it seems as if you don't want to get it.

The biggest visible distribution from "reggie's wallet" of tokens thus far would be the proposed Jamaican Stock Exchange deal. That caused VERI price to more than double, So here, we have a real world example of what you declaring, yet the real world effect is the opposite of what you are asserting. There are many more deals in the pipeline, most are as large, and many are larger than the JSE deal. I would expect a pop with each deal as the network effect grows stronger, but you will be left in a lurch as you look at things from a value dilutive perspective. It's accretive, if anything.

You also stated "But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental ". That comment is nonsensical. The entire issuance is published, it's called the blockchain - the point of this entire exercise. Isn't that how you came to find out about the amount? Everyone else in the world can do the same thing.

and... Reggie... mike drop.

Reggie Middleton

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Quote from: toknormal on July 06, 2017, 08:05:18 PM

Ok. Comical interlude over.

I apologise for winding you up @paulmaritz. I should not have done that as it isn't my intention to use these posts to make people feel uncomfortable.

But lets take stock as to who is the real troll here.

I have been contributing considered opinion, often accompanied by some reasonable argument and the odd bit of anecdotal illustration and calculation. I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers. I've also been careful not to use the "s" word, nor have I dismissed this token's fundamentals, which I believe to be sound, and nor have I "ad hominem'd" anybody as far as I'm aware.

What have you contributed of illuminating value ? You posted that coinmarketcom quote which was useful - I hadn't seen that. Apart form that, a large amount of handwaving and pictures of trolls.

So maybe a truce would be fruitful plus a more constructive appraisal of the matter at hand.

The issue as I see it is that when you have a single holder with a large amount of asset to sell in an illiquid market you need some kind of market leader to act as a price discovery mechanism so you can go and negotiate with 'large buyers' and make so called 'institutional sales'. (Which are not actually institutional at all since there are no institutions regulating them, they're just sales).

That was the role of the ICO and subsequent market rise on tiny volume.

What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates and large volumes which come from outside the published coin supply but which effectively qualify as 'circulating supply' since the tokens have now been distributed. This is great for large investors but for small investors there is considerably more risk from 2 sources:

1. a step change in published supply invoking a large and abrupt correction to the downside in token exchange rate to compensate for marketcap growth

2. an arbitrage driven correction between OTC and Exchange markets

I'm not necessarily saying that this will happen, I'm just pointing out that this risk is carried disproportionally by the small investor because:

• they do not gain from the liquidity increase (as the ICO issuer does)
• they do not gain from the OTC discount (as the 'institutional buyer' does)

Sure, it may all work out and as has been pointed out, some other assets do this to a limited extent. But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental (which is why I suggested the policy of marketcap reporting is being 'gamed') and its something that no investor has control over. Their interests do depend on things staying that way as far as I can see.

Quote from: KLN_IT on July 06, 2017, 07:52:41 PM

Litecoin has 84,000,000 million coins but they are currently only at 51,000,000 million...why are you not calling LTC a scam or XRP, or BTC or any others for that matter?

Because Litecoin is a mined coin. The 84,000,000 don't currently exist whereas the 100,000,000 VERI do, are currently in a wallet and ready to be sold at the holder's whim. There's no "2 Million liquid supply" and "98 million illiquid supply". There's just a 100 Million token wallet with a single holder.

I won't call you a troll. You actually do raise some points worth considering. The problem is that you are disseminating opinion as fact, and it is incorrect and simply wrong. For instance, you said "What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates".
That's simply incorrect. Ask anyone who has purchased in bulk, they will tell you that thus far we have sold at a "premium" to the so-called "token-to-coin exchange rates", not a discount. You see, the problem is that you do not understand the business model of Veritaseum. It is a software solutions and financial engineering platform, and not a make believe faux security. You reasoning keeps defaulting to the latter, despite my and others having corrected you several times.

You also stated "I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers."
It is apparent that you have not traded in anything similar to Veritaseum with a economic platform business model or you would realize that the more the merrier (you know, Metcalfe's Law, and all...). Again, you are consistently looking at the economics as a inflationary item count or some sort of dilutive effect similar to traded equities. That is almost the antithesis of what we have here. Basically you don't get it, but you are obvisouly an intelligent guy, so it is apparent that you can get it. This leads to troll comments from others in the forum, because it seems as if you don't want to get it.

The biggest visible distribution from "reggie's wallet" of tokens thus far would be the proposed Jamaican Stock Exchange deal. That caused VERI price to more than double, So here, we have a real world example of what you declaring, yet the real world effect is the opposite of what you are asserting. There are many more deals in the pipeline, most are as large, and many are larger than the JSE deal. I would expect a pop with each deal as the network effect grows stronger, but you will be left in a lurch as you look at things from a value dilutive perspective. It's accretive, if anything.

You also stated "But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental ". That comment is nonsensical. The entire issuance is published, it's called the blockchain - the point of this entire exercise. Isn't that how you came to find out about the amount? Everyone else in the world can do the same thing.

endchat

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Activity: 269

Merit: 250

Quote from: Jeffrey_memb on July 07, 2017, 04:04:34 AM

Who is the guy reggie? I dont know the guy. I do some research and dont know what to think about him

He is a man with a plan...

you can try reading reading up here a little...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Middleton

search youtube while you are at it, I have been watching him for 8+ years make great call after great call, publicly...

Who are you again?

SiFi

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Quote from: ngin-x on July 06, 2017, 10:03:15 PM

Quote from: jbl888 on July 06, 2017, 01:44:35 PM

Quote from: toknormal on July 06, 2017, 01:23:26 PM

Quote from: paulmaritz on July 06, 2017, 01:17:47 PM

This user is currently ignored.

I appreciate that having your definition of what constitutes "public trading" challenged may sound like trolling but in fact as I understand it, if Reggie sells any entity a bag of tokens then they are free to trade it however they like - publicly, privately or not at all (i.e. held, to be "used in the machine").

You made it sound like that wasn't the case, that's all.

Feel free to clarify.

Not really a great effort at trolling there amigo ... you gotta have something more original than the same question answered (even by Reggie himself) a dozen times

I'll give you an E for Effort though. Now ... to the "Ignore" feature for you (on the far left under his/her name)

Cheesy

The future of this shitcoin is quite obvious now. I don't think I have ever seen a more hostile thread than this. The moment anyone asks a legitimate question, he is branded a troll and sent to the ignore list by Reggie's army of paid goons. You think this is hurting us lol?

It's clear as daylight now that some people with vested interests are trying to prop up their shitcoin with 98% supply restricted so that they can cash out as millionaires. It's the same shit as Gnosis all over again. Nice try but I am gonna do everything possible to spread the word about the scam being propagated here so that innocent people don't fall in this trap.

You and your scam coin will never be listed on any real exchange, so yeah keep manipulating prices at those shitty exchanges with no volume while you still can. This won't last long.

It is amusing when someone who uses words like "shitcoin", "hostile thread", "branded", "paid goons", "scam", "manipulating", "trap" and "shitty exchanges" (all in only three paragraphs) then claims to be looking out for "innocent people" and asking "legitimate questions". LOL! We know your type sonny. Now where's that ignore button?

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Quote from: Jeffrey_memb on July 07, 2017, 04:04:34 AM

Who is the guy reggie? I dont know the guy. I do some research and dont know what to think about him

You don't know whether to sell or hodl either. Make up your own mind

Topic: VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD - page 113. (Read 251043 times)