Topic: VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD - page 8. (Read 250993 times)

Any issues to trade on Mercatox?

Veritaseum is going to become full blown competition to these centralized exchanges. Veri will have all crypto assets, commodities, metals, tokenized real estate, art, stock markets, bond markets and everything else in between... tokenized and tradable peer to peer and many as redeemable tokens. Hit BTC are laughable at best. Use Ether Delta and Fork Delta. Decentralized exchanges are king.

Sure, only if you have continuously good supply of people that have demand for your free burrito cards and Forever stamps that you can sell to.
And I am sure even then the potential of price increase of your cards and stamps has a limit, otherwise the demand will shift to alternative cards and stamps for the same utility use (i.e. email).
And make sure your cards and stamps have yearly ROI above inflation to have real investment value.
For investment purposes, I wouldn't subscribe to hype, speculation, and false hope.

I have a pile of free burrito cards for Chipotle that never expire. As Chipotle raises prices, I make more profit.
My hoard of Forever stamps also keep increasing in value.
What you buy on Kickstarter is often the right to one of the first products produced, typically at a discount.

There are lots of examples of unregulated offerings that have a strong chance of increasing in value.

Exactly.
It is very interesting to see gift cards having very significant "investment proposition" and yet not regulated, assuming it is legit to start with. If you have lots of such gift cards, I should wish you good luck.

Prepaid fees would be like gift cards. Gift cards do not need regulation. Nonetheless, we need not fear as Reggie has been working with regulators to attempt to get them to issue a statement or policy that says as much.

The Ethereum Foundation very clearly from the very start expressed ETH marketing as a crypto fuel, like a commodity, thus even though it is not a security it nevertheless has investment value and to be regulated under the CFTC, as far as I know. What about VERI that Reggie incessantly marketed as a prepaid fee utility token? What asset class is VERI? And which regulator will be responsible in regulating VERI?

Many people would say ETH is not an investment either, but those same people recognize the likelihood of the price of ETH to increase due to what's called the "network effect." VERI is no different.

On one hand, Reggie refrains from hyping VERI as an investment to escape regulation, yet at the same time he retweets 3rd-party tweets that do so. I just want to say this is unprofessional. Veritaseum just retweeted a 3rd-party tweet that goes "Will $veri  become a top 5 #crypto in 2019 on @CoinMarketCap ?@ReggieMiddleton is the man to make it happen imo. Wait until the banks discover and understand the @Veritaseuminc platform", indirectly giving the impression that VERI has investment potential. By right, he should refrain from associating himself and company with all conducts, be it 1st-party or 3rd-party, that give impression of VERI having an investment proposition. Of course someone here may find some excuse why that is perfectly okay, but that's not what many others, especially the regulator, will see from a professional standpoint.

https://cryptocentral.io/looking-for-hidden-gems-in-the-cryptospace-veritaseum-veadir/

LOOKING FOR HIDDEN GEMS IN THE CRYPTOSPACE – VERITASEUM (VEADIR)

Depends on what the asset is. Tokenized cash flows MUST be considered a loan, unless you can think of a way to do it differently. Specifically, you have to tokenize cash flow for a certain period, you cannot tokenize all future cash flows for infinity. Cash flow for an infinite time period would be more like asset ownership. So if you sell x years of cash flows via tokens, you can calculate a net present value and price the tokens accordingly. In my example above, it is effectively a $5k loan backed by the cash flow from the asset the debtor owns.

I believe we've been over this.
Reggie will only sell large quantities of tokens (new or recycled) in large quantities to large buyers. While they could, these buyers should be buying tokens to use them, not to sell them on exchanges. As they will not enter the exchanges, they should not affect price.
Going forward, of the 2M tokens in circulation, eventually they will be used and the supply available to exchanges should decrease, as again the tokens from large direct sales should not be entering the exchanges in theory. So increased demand and usage by 'small guys' should lead to price appreciation. I could be wrong.


Clearly VERI is not for you. And that's OK.

So asset tokenization is a form of loan? Well, ok if that's what you think. To me, asset tokenization involves some form of asset ownership. Otherwise it is not asset tokenization but something else. More like P2P lending. But inappropriate as asset tokenization or fractional ownership which is more properly reserved for securities, not loans.

Reggie says VERI is both recyclable and resellable, i.e. used token will not be burned but instead recycled for sale again. So what impact do you think these features will have on the pricing? Do you think this is a model that will lead to price appreciation?

I don't own any securities token because they are still not yet available as I know. The utility tokens I own so far are pretty well-managed projects with many partnerships (including corporate ones) and their tokens get burned as they are used. They do not get recycled and resold over and over again. So yeah, if you want to know the key difference --> corporate partnerships and tokens get burned as they are used. VERI has no known formalized partnership and the tokens are recyclable and resellable.

I also hold a shitty prepaid fee utility token that is very similar in nature to VERI --> LA. The only big difference between LA and VERI is LA does not hype its project at the level that Reggie is doing. Besides, between LA and VERI, VERI gets regular promotions by Clif High, Bix Weir, etc, throughout the years so I believe the elevated price of VERI is mostly because of hype. Fundamentally, LA and VERI and their associated projects are not very different as you may think. And no, I do not see LA being a competitor to VERI. There are others far more competitive.

I believe you are false in mixing up utility tokens with cryptocurrencies. They are not the same.

I can see a lot of things. That is why I am in the crypto space. And yes, I feel sad whenever I tell myself I am holding some utility tokens that are not investment-grade. That is why I try my best to hold only the ones that are the least shitty. That does not mean I should be holding VERI.

I believe they are basically loans. A simple example would be if you had a rental property that earned $1000/month. You could agree for someone to give you $5000 today in exchange for $500/month for the next year with the revenue to come from 1/2 of the monthly rent. The agreement would likely have a personal guarantee in case the rent did not get paid. So then you could issue 500 tokens for $10 each and each token holder gets $1/month for 12 months.

No, VERI is what it is. In the sea of crypto projects it is one of the best applications making use of smart contracts. I don't know if VERI will ever "moon" but the track record of what has been done and what is in the pipeline shows that Reggie is working hard to increase the utility of the token and the adoption and use, and that should lead to increased valuation over time.

There might be better projects out there. I have quite diverse holdings. If I do find a better project I am not beyond selling VERI to buy it.

If you believe I am false then you must not own any coins or tokens that are not security coins/tokens. I am not aware of any popular crypto projects where token holders have equity in the business that created the token. Can you name a few for me?

Some utility tokens have models that will lead to price appreciation (if platform plans are executed as planned) while others do not. If you cannot see this then crypto is not a space you should be in as we have different beliefs.

Maybe I am not as smart as you are when it comes to contracts. You may teach me on how exactly a stream of cash flow can be tokenized without tokenizing the source of the cash flow itself. I am very open-minded and would like to see your explanation on this. In my understanding, asset tokenization is fractional ownership. So if there is absolutely no ownership whatsoever in the underlying asset as you imply, I am not really sure how distribution of cash flow can be legally assured to the token holders.

Nevertheless, I think you are too immersed in Reggie and Veritaseum to the point of denying everything negative, to the point where you see this private business as something that is 100% perfect, to the point where you truly believe buying prepaid fee token is going to be a great investment.

I bet there is no denying that you and I are both in all these crypto stuff purely for the money. And I honestly believe there are some other much greater investment potential that you truly are unaware of beyond VERI.

"Just because it does not represent equity doesn't mean it can't or won't go up in value as use of the token increases and we see the benefits of the network effect." I bet this will remain your personal fallacy for a very long time to come.

I am not pumping anything unless you consider re-posting Reggies tweets to be pumping. Not all people follow twitter.
Correcting your misinformation is also not pumping.

Correct.

Do you understand how contracts work? Why can't someone with an income stream contractually obligate themselves to deliver all or a portion of that stream to someone else? This is a fairly common practice. Just because it isn't an investment class you're interested in doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that no one will buy it.

Tokenizing actual assets such as property or artwork is possible but much more complicated due to having to set and pay a trustee and/or management structure to provide security, maintenance, etc.

I am not pumping VERI but I am a token holder and I want to see it do well. Just because it does not represent equity doesn't mean it can't or won't go up in value as use of the token increases and we see the benefits of the network effect.
Competition is not a big factor, at least for the foreseeable future. An just like both Coke and Pepsi both do well, there are room for multiple players.
I am not confused about the difference in the company vs the token. The same can be said about the vast majority of coins & tokens. What is your point? Name a crypto-project that you like that this doesn't apply to.

Partially true. There is no reason why another private individual couldn't choose to redeem your VeGold token and I suspect we might see third parties start to adopt these practices. They've only been out a few months, give the ecosystem some time to develop.
And yes, as you point out, Veritaseum does have to comply with the laws of the country they operate in, so KYC is necessary. Do you suggest they ignore the law?
Again, most crypto projects are private companies using public blockchains. If you can come up with a way to do a truly decentralized redeemable physical gold token then you should do it and be the first. Personally, I don't see how it is possible to create a redeemable precious metals token without some central company or authority backing, but I am anxious to hear your ideas on how it can be done.

I believe the main question is why are you here pumping a hype.

Yes, VERI drives revenue for Veritaseum. And VERI is not an investment.

By saying cash flow can be tokenized, you are revealing yourself to be ignorant of finance and economics.
If you tokenize the cash flow but NOT the underlying asset, then what makes you think you are entitled to the cash flow generated by the underlying asset? Heck, you are not even an owner of the underlying asset. And if what you say is true, then your portion of the cash flow is subordinated to the owner's portion. Do you get what that means?

The main question is, unless you are a direct employee of Veritaseum under the company's payroll, why are you pumping VERI?
Ignorance of the competition does not mean there is no competition. Veritaseum, not VERI, has so far built VeADIR for its business' own private exchange. The rest of all the infrastructures that you see in public are built by others, not Veritaseum. Veritaseum is just riding on the coat tail of such public infrastructure built by others. You persistently confusing yourself with VERI = Veritaseum. VERI is a prepaid fee utility token. Veritaseum is a company. There is no investment proposition in hodling VERI nor does it have any equity value in the company. I agree, Reggie is a very competent private businessman utilizing public blockchain tech for his private business.

If you ask Reggie about VERI being an investment, he will never stop telling you it is not. So stop confusing yourself that VERI is Veritaseum. Stop associating VERI as Veritaseum. VERI is a token. It is not an equity of the company.

Veritaseum's marketing is about taking away the middleman so that P2P transaction is possible, yet if I have VeGold, I cannot redeem it for physical gold from anywhere else except at Veritaseum, and if I have to submit KYC I cannot do it at anywhere else except at Veritaseum. This is private business selling private products and services using public infrastructure built by others.

Dont aim for poloniex. 3-4K ETH per day is by factors lower than the lowest traded asset on poloniex and even those get thrown out regularly. Bittrex is the only real chance. However, the best chance is to deliver value

https://twitter.com/ReggieMiddleton/status/1060305954481360897
@ReggieMiddleton
Will gold prices correct? We've hired a macro guy to pen independent thought pieces. This inaugural piece targets VeGold. It's controversial, so both I & our lead analyst chimed in with the usual chart porn. Access it by scrolling to the bottom of VeADIR https://dapp.veritaseum.com/#/research

https://twitter.com/ReggieMiddleton/status/1060306846047723520
@ReggieMiddleton
I, my lead analyst, and Dr. Shea will be doing a live Q&A to discuss pricing of gold, bitcoin and oil (all three of which Veritaseum will soon be Veritizing, or has already Veritized). See Will gold prices correct? Access by scrolling to bottom of VeADIR  https://dapp.veritaseum.com/#/research

https://twitter.com/ReggieMiddleton/status/1060308578676944896
@ReggieMiddleton
1 of the more interesting graphics from "Will Gold Prices Correct?" research report we just released. See the attached graphic, then read the entire 12 page report, then buy your digital gold through the blockchain! Access by scrolling to bottom of VeADIR  http://dapp.veritaseum.com/#/research

Then why are you here?

The VeGold (and associated) products are another use of the VERI token and another product/service offering from Veritaseum. It may not be rocket science (few crypto apps are), but it is an application for the VERI token that will drive revenue for Veritaseum as a company and drive use/consumption of the VERI token.

Why not? It's not rocket science. Who says the cash flow has to be a constant amount?

Again, then why are you here?
VeADR, VeGld and VeSlv are available now with more products in the pipeline. I'm unaware of any competitors offering similar products but you're right that some competitors could come along. You can say that about every project. VERI has first-mover advantage in this arena and has built out a LOT of infrastructure to make it all work and he has done everything the right way. I am not worried about VERI's ability to compete in the face of inevitable competition. Reggie has shown himself to be quite capable, innovative, and competent at everything so far.

As far as token price, who knows what the future will be but VERI is doing all the right things, I can't ask for more from a project.

It works like any other ERC20 token.