[VIDEO]An indisputable proof that bitcoin is fake money and...

Betwrong

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Quote from: antikvark on September 22, 2019, 11:24:26 PM

~
You cannot change reality by copy/pasting opinions. Fiat is debt and debt will not go away if you stop believing in it, i.e. borrowers will provide goods and services to fiat holders to get money for repaying the debts, regardless of what they believe. Comparing that system with Bitcoin, i.e. with inserting numbers into a database when someone gives goods, services or fiat for free is denial of reality. So, no matter how hard you try with these copy/pasting or empty appeals to "modern thinkers", reality won't change.

I'm copy/pasting opinions from respected sources, such as Wikipedia and TED, because I don't claim that I'm someone whose opinion must be highly regarded. But it seems like you think that you don't need any other sources than your own head, thinking that you are smarter than anyone around. That's why I see no point in continuing this conversation.

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Quote from: Betwrong on September 22, 2019, 01:46:16 AM

Quote from: antikvark on September 20, 2019, 11:29:47 PM

~Bitcoin is a number inserted into a database. ~

You keep saying this as if fiat money is something much more than that. It's not. Money, in any form, is a product of our collective imagination. If we stop believing in it, all money is gone.

Maybe try to read some books by modern thinkers, such as Yuval Noah Harari, for example, to see that your rant regarding how Bitcoin is not money is ridiculous.

Quote from: https://www.ted.com/talks/yuval_noah_harari_what_explains_the_rise_of_humans/transcript?language=en

Money, in fact, is the most successful story ever invented and told by humans, because it is the only story everybody believes. Not everybody believes in God, not everybody believes in human rights, not everybody believes in nationalism, but everybody believes in money, and in the dollar bill.
...
... over the centuries, we have constructed on top of this objective reality a second layer of fictional reality, a reality made of fictional entities, like nations, like gods, like money, like corporations. And what is amazing is that as history unfolded, this fictional reality became more and more powerful so that today, the most powerful forces in the world are these fictional entities.

You cannot change reality by copy/pasting opinions. Fiat is debt and debt will not go away if you stop believing in it, i.e. borrowers will provide goods and services to fiat holders to get money for repaying the debts, regardless of what they believe. Comparing that system with Bitcoin, i.e. with inserting numbers into a database when someone gives goods, services or fiat for free is denial of reality. So, no matter how hard you try with these copy/pasting or empty appeals to "modern thinkers", reality won't change.

Betwrong

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Quote from: antikvark on September 20, 2019, 11:29:47 PM

~Bitcoin is a number inserted into a database. ~

You keep saying this as if fiat money is something much more than that. It's not. Money, in any form, is a product of our collective imagination. If we stop believing in it, all money is gone.

Maybe try to read some books by modern thinkers, such as Yuval Noah Harari, for example, to see that your rant regarding how Bitcoin is not money is ridiculous.

Quote from: https://www.ted.com/talks/yuval_noah_harari_what_explains_the_rise_of_humans/transcript?language=en

Money, in fact, is the most successful story ever invented and told by humans, because it is the only story everybody believes. Not everybody believes in God, not everybody believes in human rights, not everybody believes in nationalism, but everybody believes in money, and in the dollar bill.
...
... over the centuries, we have constructed on top of this objective reality a second layer of fictional reality, a reality made of fictional entities, like nations, like gods, like money, like corporations. And what is amazing is that as history unfolded, this fictional reality became more and more powerful so that today, the most powerful forces in the world are these fictional entities.

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Quote from: yulchatar on September 20, 2019, 02:50:08 PM

Quote from: joelsamuya on September 10, 2019, 10:16:06 AM

Bitcoin can be fake if there is no use to it and for over 10 years now this cryptocurrency has had shown all the best and the worst parts of it...maybe at this part of its journey it is already too late to argue that it can be fake as this has been settled long time ago. How many times has Bitcoin been declared as dead? And how many times it has risen from the ashes just like the legendary Phoenix? This alone should be telling us why Bitcoin is not and will not be fake. Bitcoin is an opportunity to take something into our very hands though of course it is not perfect but nothing is.

I agree, this is one another attempt to ruin the reputation of bitcoin. Calling it a fake, people try to drive it into the framework, drawing a parallel with the fiat. But this is useless and impossible, since there is a demand for bitcoins, it's used and it's still the leader among any other digital money.

Bitcoin is a number inserted into a database. How can you "ruin the reputation" of data in a database? What is there to ruin? Also, how can there be a demand for inserting numbers into a database? Demand is for goods and services (utilities) or entitlements(fiat money, stocks, bonds, gold certificates, etc.). The phrase "demand for Bitcoin" is an oxymoron. What we have in the case of bitcoin is fake money and fake market instrument, as explained in the video linked in the OP.

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Quote from: joelsamuya on September 10, 2019, 10:16:06 AM

Bitcoin can be fake if there is no use to it and for over 10 years now this cryptocurrency has had shown all the best and the worst parts of it...maybe at this part of its journey it is already too late to argue that it can be fake as this has been settled long time ago. How many times has Bitcoin been declared as dead? And how many times it has risen from the ashes just like the legendary Phoenix? This alone should be telling us why Bitcoin is not and will not be fake. Bitcoin is an opportunity to take something into our very hands though of course it is not perfect but nothing is.

I agree, this is one another attempt to ruin the reputation of bitcoin. Calling it a fake, people try to drive it into the framework, drawing a parallel with the fiat. But this is useless and impossible, since there is a demand for bitcoins, it's used and it's still the leader among any other digital money.

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Quote from: efxtrader on September 17, 2019, 08:36:26 PM

Quote from: antikvark on September 16, 2019, 09:12:09 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on September 16, 2019, 06:46:40 AM

Quote from: antikvark on September 15, 2019, 11:01:01 PM

~
I feel sorry for you guys. You are the victims of a modern investment scam and it is hard to accept such reality. But, acting irrational won't make this reality go away. You cannot compare the ownership of a virtual address and a number (Bitcoin) with ownership of a company or a commodity. It's irrational. Fantasizing about the great future of fake money is also irrational. I created this topic to provide a simple logical argument that shows why bitcoin is fake money. But you all just ignore this argument and repeate the same old fantasies that have nothing to do with it. I'd prefer you either stuck to the topic or not bother commenting. Thanks.

What you say is not new, and has been stated for years by bankers, government officials and many others. Yet many people have been using BTC as money all this time, buying with it airline tickets, luxury cars, houses etc.

In fact, anything can be money if enough people believe in it. Don't be like an American tourist in a market in Mumbai shouting at vendors who accept Indian rupee: "Why are you selling your goods for these pieces of paper? It's not money! Only US dollar is money!" It's ridiculous.

Beliefs are not economic categories. You cannot believe in money. Money is either commodity (gold, silver, copper, salt, tea, shells, alcohol, cigarettes, silk, candy, nails, cocoa beans, cowries..) or an item representing some entitlement -- to a specified amount of gold(good certificate) or to goods and services of borrowers(Dollar). I explained in the OP how these entitlements are realized. Commodities and entitlements are capable of performing the primary function of money and that is why they are real money. In the OP I also explained how said function is performed. Bitcoin is a numerical mark in a memory and as such in is not capable of performing the primary function of money. So even if all the world believed in it, Bitcoin would not be money.

From what I know, Bitcoin has never claimed to be money but a peer to peer payment instrument. This is clearly different because money reflects the trust of users of money to the issuer of money, namely the Government or the Central Bank and must be accepted by citizens. While Bitcoin is trusted by its users only and because the transaction has begun to grow, the Government takes a middle ground by calling it a digital asset.

In my opinion, the term money currently in use has also gone off track because in its nature money is a medium of exchange and it is agreed by both parties to carry out transactions and Bitcoin can be categorized as money if this term is used because both believe in the value of Bitcoin but because the Government only recognizes money issuance, the Government calls it an asset

You cannot make payment by inserting number into a database. Payment is performed by transferring utilities or entitlements, while number in a database only expresses the quantity or the size of what is transferred. Watch the video for details.

antikvark

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Quote from: Betwrong on September 18, 2019, 03:34:42 AM

Quote from: antikvark on September 16, 2019, 09:12:09 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on September 16, 2019, 06:46:40 AM

~
What you say is not new, and has been stated for years by bankers, government officials and many others. Yet many people have been using BTC as money all this time, buying with it airline tickets, luxury cars, houses etc.

In fact, anything can be money if enough people believe in it. Don't be like an American tourist in a market in Mumbai shouting at vendors who accept Indian rupee: "Why are you selling your goods for these pieces of paper? It's not money! Only US dollar is money!" It's ridiculous.

Beliefs are not economic categories. You cannot believe in money. Money is either commodity (gold, silver, copper, salt, tea, shells, alcohol, cigarettes, silk, candy, nails, cocoa beans, cowries..) or an item representing some entitlement -- to a specified amount of gold(good certificate) or to goods and services of borrowers(Dollar). I explained in the OP how these entitlements are realized. Commodities and entitlements are capable of performing the primary function of money and that is why they are real money. In the OP I also explained how said function is performed. Bitcoin is a numerical mark in a memory and as such in is not capable of performing the primary function of money. So even if all the world believed in it, Bitcoin would not be money.

You can invent your own world with your own definition of money and other things, and if enough people agree with you, you can be a cult leader, with all the benefits attached to this position. But so far people in the world we live in agree with the following definition of money:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

Money is any item or verifiable record that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts, such as taxes, in a particular country or socio-economic context.

As a free individual, you have the right to go against the whole world and deny the definitions the world believes in, but you must realize that it's you who lives in a fantasy world, not the people who believe that Bitcoin is money.

It is you that live in a fantasy world. Money is not the thing you believe in. Money is either commodity or entitlement. Verifiable record is only evidence that commodity or entitlement exists and that you are its holder. You cannot make a payment by inserting number into a database. In a banking system, inserting number into your account only evidences that you have the entitlement to goods and services of borrowers, as explained in the OP. Payment is transfer of commodity or entitlement. Hence, by inserting number into the blockchain you are not paying, but just managing data in a database.

Betwrong

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Quote from: antikvark on September 16, 2019, 09:12:09 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on September 16, 2019, 06:46:40 AM

~
What you say is not new, and has been stated for years by bankers, government officials and many others. Yet many people have been using BTC as money all this time, buying with it airline tickets, luxury cars, houses etc.

In fact, anything can be money if enough people believe in it. Don't be like an American tourist in a market in Mumbai shouting at vendors who accept Indian rupee: "Why are you selling your goods for these pieces of paper? It's not money! Only US dollar is money!" It's ridiculous.

Beliefs are not economic categories. You cannot believe in money. Money is either commodity (gold, silver, copper, salt, tea, shells, alcohol, cigarettes, silk, candy, nails, cocoa beans, cowries..) or an item representing some entitlement -- to a specified amount of gold(good certificate) or to goods and services of borrowers(Dollar). I explained in the OP how these entitlements are realized. Commodities and entitlements are capable of performing the primary function of money and that is why they are real money. In the OP I also explained how said function is performed. Bitcoin is a numerical mark in a memory and as such in is not capable of performing the primary function of money. So even if all the world believed in it, Bitcoin would not be money.

You can invent your own world with your own definition of money and other things, and if enough people agree with you, you can be a cult leader, with all the benefits attached to this position. But so far people in the world we live in agree with the following definition of money:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

Money is any item or verifiable record that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts, such as taxes, in a particular country or socio-economic context.

As a free individual, you have the right to go against the whole world and deny the definitions the world believes in, but you must realize that it's you who lives in a fantasy world, not the people who believe that Bitcoin is money.

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Quote from: rodel caling on September 15, 2019, 03:52:49 PM

Quote from: Indamuck on September 10, 2019, 08:22:42 AM

Everything is fake, its all a just a faith based system. It just matters that the person your exchanging goods or services with accepts what you are offering.

It is really just manipulation by others, even bitcoin is controlled heavily by the whales and miners but it is the best decentralized system we have so far.

Definitely that is truly correct mate we need to accept what we have so far about decentralized crypto currency all we need to do is trust and faith the capability of bitcoin as a new future of money. The important now we that bitcoin is very useful nad give hope for the people how to get decent job.

Bitcoin helps a lot because of the opportunity on working on it and having it as a salary for the services you offered that is more higher than your earning from your stable job. Sometimes it blinded you when you want to take much of it but ended to lose everything because of your decision and greediness.

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Quote from: antikvark on September 16, 2019, 09:12:09 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on September 16, 2019, 06:46:40 AM

Quote from: antikvark on September 15, 2019, 11:01:01 PM

~
I feel sorry for you guys. You are the victims of a modern investment scam and it is hard to accept such reality. But, acting irrational won't make this reality go away. You cannot compare the ownership of a virtual address and a number (Bitcoin) with ownership of a company or a commodity. It's irrational. Fantasizing about the great future of fake money is also irrational. I created this topic to provide a simple logical argument that shows why bitcoin is fake money. But you all just ignore this argument and repeate the same old fantasies that have nothing to do with it. I'd prefer you either stuck to the topic or not bother commenting. Thanks.

What you say is not new, and has been stated for years by bankers, government officials and many others. Yet many people have been using BTC as money all this time, buying with it airline tickets, luxury cars, houses etc.

In fact, anything can be money if enough people believe in it. Don't be like an American tourist in a market in Mumbai shouting at vendors who accept Indian rupee: "Why are you selling your goods for these pieces of paper? It's not money! Only US dollar is money!" It's ridiculous.

Beliefs are not economic categories. You cannot believe in money. Money is either commodity (gold, silver, copper, salt, tea, shells, alcohol, cigarettes, silk, candy, nails, cocoa beans, cowries..) or an item representing some entitlement -- to a specified amount of gold(good certificate) or to goods and services of borrowers(Dollar). I explained in the OP how these entitlements are realized. Commodities and entitlements are capable of performing the primary function of money and that is why they are real money. In the OP I also explained how said function is performed. Bitcoin is a numerical mark in a memory and as such in is not capable of performing the primary function of money. So even if all the world believed in it, Bitcoin would not be money.

From what I know, Bitcoin has never claimed to be money but a peer to peer payment instrument. This is clearly different because money reflects the trust of users of money to the issuer of money, namely the Government or the Central Bank and must be accepted by citizens. While Bitcoin is trusted by its users only and because the transaction has begun to grow, the Government takes a middle ground by calling it a digital asset.

In my opinion, the term money currently in use has also gone off track because in its nature money is a medium of exchange and it is agreed by both parties to carry out transactions and Bitcoin can be categorized as money if this term is used because both believe in the value of Bitcoin but because the Government only recognizes money issuance, the Government calls it an asset

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Quote from: antikvark on September 14, 2019, 11:31:02 PM

When money is in the form of a certificate, this certificate must entitle its holder to some actual thing like gold, some other commodity, or goods in general. Just printing a paper and put some letters and numbers on it, is creating nothing but a worthless piece of paper. Thus, in order for bitcoin to be real money, prior to putting it into circulation miners must store some commodity at some wearhouse so that bitcoin holders can claim it if they want.

Nonsense.

BTC is ALREADY successfully being used as money to buy goods and services.

Showing your claims to be obviously false.

TIDOVEE

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When some things are yet to be totally accepted, it is exposed to discrimination by the non accepting party. A lot of things by technology always appear unreal unstill it is established. Although Bitcoin is not yet generally accepted as money. Real bitcoin users have enough proof that bitcoin is real and since it is a "FUTURE CURRENCY" it is still in progress.
Your article is one reason for me always saying, fiat may be permitted to remain for certain people who may not be able to use bitcoin

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Quote from: kalostrian on September 15, 2019, 03:30:48 PM

Cool thing about this forum is that has no censorship. So stupidities like this thread has a space. Luckily internet don't forget, so we all are gonna remember the troll/moron is this guy. This is also an anonymous forum. That's good also. Because of this only this guy will know privately that he/her is a faggot.

We must respect each of everyone’s opinions mate ,trolls are part of our community here and sometimes their trolling results to opposite response from public
That instead of falling value crypto gains more after some trolls comes out
I personally understand OP’s sentiment but what I can suggest is “if you don’t believe crypto”then just go away and let people manage their own live in here

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Quote from: Betwrong on September 16, 2019, 06:46:40 AM

Quote from: antikvark on September 15, 2019, 11:01:01 PM

~
I feel sorry for you guys. You are the victims of a modern investment scam and it is hard to accept such reality. But, acting irrational won't make this reality go away. You cannot compare the ownership of a virtual address and a number (Bitcoin) with ownership of a company or a commodity. It's irrational. Fantasizing about the great future of fake money is also irrational. I created this topic to provide a simple logical argument that shows why bitcoin is fake money. But you all just ignore this argument and repeate the same old fantasies that have nothing to do with it. I'd prefer you either stuck to the topic or not bother commenting. Thanks.

What you say is not new, and has been stated for years by bankers, government officials and many others. Yet many people have been using BTC as money all this time, buying with it airline tickets, luxury cars, houses etc.

In fact, anything can be money if enough people believe in it. Don't be like an American tourist in a market in Mumbai shouting at vendors who accept Indian rupee: "Why are you selling your goods for these pieces of paper? It's not money! Only US dollar is money!" It's ridiculous.

Beliefs are not economic categories. You cannot believe in money. Money is either commodity (gold, silver, copper, salt, tea, shells, alcohol, cigarettes, silk, candy, nails, cocoa beans, cowries..) or an item representing some entitlement -- to a specified amount of gold(good certificate) or to goods and services of borrowers(Dollar). I explained in the OP how these entitlements are realized. Commodities and entitlements are capable of performing the primary function of money and that is why they are real money. In the OP I also explained how said function is performed. Bitcoin is a numerical mark in a memory and as such in is not capable of performing the primary function of money. So even if all the world believed in it, Bitcoin would not be money.

Betwrong

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Quote from: antikvark on September 15, 2019, 11:01:01 PM

~
I feel sorry for you guys. You are the victims of a modern investment scam and it is hard to accept such reality. But, acting irrational won't make this reality go away. You cannot compare the ownership of a virtual address and a number (Bitcoin) with ownership of a company or a commodity. It's irrational. Fantasizing about the great future of fake money is also irrational. I created this topic to provide a simple logical argument that shows why bitcoin is fake money. But you all just ignore this argument and repeate the same old fantasies that have nothing to do with it. I'd prefer you either stuck to the topic or not bother commenting. Thanks.

What you say is not new, and has been stated for years by bankers, government officials and many others. Yet many people have been using BTC as money all this time, buying with it airline tickets, luxury cars, houses etc.

In fact, anything can be money if enough people believe in it. Don't be like an American tourist in a market in Mumbai shouting at vendors who accept Indian rupee: "Why are you selling your goods for these pieces of paper? It's not money! Only US dollar is money!" It's ridiculous.

antikvark

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Quote from: fiulpro on September 15, 2019, 09:26:05 AM

Sir ;
You should understand few things :-

1. Before saying Bitcoins is fake you should take into account the sentiments this this community.

2. Who gave you this idea that Bitcoins is like money ?
It's *100 more than that , it's stocks + money+ commodity all combined in one , thus don't use the old equations here , make some new ones yourself.

3. Indisputable ?
It's something that belongs to the future thus one should actually forget about current world arguments, Bitcoins is a thing of the future .. people will criticise it because they simply don't understand it .

I feel sorry for you guys. You are the victims of a modern investment scam and it is hard to accept such reality. But, acting irrational won't make this reality go away. You cannot compare the ownership of a virtual address and a number (Bitcoin) with ownership of a company or a commodity. It's irrational. Fantasizing about the great future of fake money is also irrational. I created this topic to provide a simple logical argument that shows why bitcoin is fake money. But you all just ignore this argument and repeate the same old fantasies that have nothing to do with it. I'd prefer you either stuck to the topic or not bother commenting. Thanks.

rodel caling

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Quote from: Indamuck on September 10, 2019, 08:22:42 AM

Everything is fake, its all a just a faith based system. It just matters that the person your exchanging goods or services with accepts what you are offering.

It is really just manipulation by others, even bitcoin is controlled heavily by the whales and miners but it is the best decentralized system we have so far.

Definitely that is truly correct mate we need to accept what we have so far about decentralized crypto currency all we need to do is trust and faith the capability of bitcoin as a new future of money. The important now we that bitcoin is very useful nad give hope for the people how to get decent job.

kalostrian

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Cool thing about this forum is that has no censorship. So stupidities like this thread has a space. Luckily internet don't forget, so we all are gonna remember the troll/moron is this guy. This is also an anonymous forum. That's good also. Because of this only this guy will know privately that he/her is a faggot.

Spaffin

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There are such topics that speak negatively about Bitcoin, which you do not want to read at all, since this is complete nonsense. It seems to me that only those people who lost their money due to their greed when trying to trade and earn using Bitcoin or when investing their money at the end of 2017, when Bitcoin was at its peak, can speak negatively. I am sure that if the situation with the scalability of Bitcoin changes, then this coin will interest even more investors, which will further increase its popularity and price in the cryptocurrency market.

fiulpro

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Sir ;
You should understand few things :-

1. Before saying Bitcoins is fake you should take into account the sentiments this this community.

2. Who gave you this idea that Bitcoins is like money ?
It's *100 more than that , it's stocks + money+ commodity all combined in one , thus don't use the old equations here , make some new ones yourself.

3. Indisputable ?
It's something that belongs to the future thus one should actually forget about current world arguments, Bitcoins is a thing of the future .. people will criticise it because they simply don't understand it .

Topic: [VIDEO]An indisputable proof that bitcoin is fake money and... (Read 755 times)