What is this commodity money? Salt, rocks, pigs?
How can miners take Bitcoin out of circulation?
I understand once the Bitcoin is "mined" it is mined and that
applies to the 21 million that will ever be available.
All money is a belief in that there is an exchange between parties
who agree to accept "money" for whatever goods and services are offered or delivered.
It seems this indisputable proof is based on fake assumptions.
Even Coinbase and CoinMarketCp do not agree with the argument.
Topic: [VIDEO]An indisputable proof that bitcoin is fake money and... - page 2. (Read 704 times)
September 15, 2019, 09:43:25 AM
September 15, 2019, 09:32:55 AM
Everything is fake, its all a just a faith based system. It just matters that the person your exchanging goods or services with accepts what you are offering.
It is really just manipulation by others, even bitcoin is controlled heavily by the whales and miners but it is the best decentralized system we have so far.
It is really just manipulation by others, even bitcoin is controlled heavily by the whales and miners but it is the best decentralized system we have so far.
Ooohhh liver punch.
There it goes.
It is just faith.
How could a paper be that valuable than anything else in this world? Because you believe it can buy anything. All people does except for those people in the mountains who didnt even see what money is.
You input government and everything and they have manipulated it. Since you are part of the government then you will obey.
Look at the price of bitcoin, why the hell they cannot stop it from price soaring? People believe in it!
September 15, 2019, 04:08:12 AM
You've got a very long post right there. Great job! I was kind of bored reading it though.
The case with monetary system is like this: a certain group of people agreed on inventing what they call as money. And then they agreed that this money has corresponding values and that it is going to become the medium of commerce. These are all implemented with certain rules and regulations they also agreed. They also agreed, furthermore, that anything that does not fall within the specifications are not money.
Well, then, a group of people could actually choose not to effin care about their definitions and rules and agreements and whatever. Any group of people could actually invent their own version of money and set their own monetary rules and regulations. Any group of people could actually dismiss all those as plain stupidity of the rulers and whoever in their circles and stick to the primitive ways of barter. Any community could even just adopt a system of community sharing.
The case with monetary system is like this: a certain group of people agreed on inventing what they call as money. And then they agreed that this money has corresponding values and that it is going to become the medium of commerce. These are all implemented with certain rules and regulations they also agreed. They also agreed, furthermore, that anything that does not fall within the specifications are not money.
Well, then, a group of people could actually choose not to effin care about their definitions and rules and agreements and whatever. Any group of people could actually invent their own version of money and set their own monetary rules and regulations. Any group of people could actually dismiss all those as plain stupidity of the rulers and whoever in their circles and stick to the primitive ways of barter. Any community could even just adopt a system of community sharing.
September 15, 2019, 03:13:39 AM
Bitcoin is neither real nor new money but new fake money, and that's due to simple fact it cannot perform the primary function of money. Repeating the mantra of it being money won't make said fact go away.
that's true but also repeating the mantra that "bitcoin is fake money" doesn't turn it into a fact either.
the only fact is that you are trying so hard here to bend the facts to your own will. otherwise bitcoin is real money and it is performing all the things that are expected of money. it is just new and not-yet-matured compared to the fiat system that has existed for ages!
September 15, 2019, 03:05:03 AM
Well believe it or not bitcoin is store of value which has it way to grow thru p2p trade and also depend on supply and demand which cut short the inflation on the aspect of fiat but in bitcoin what you have today in respect to 1btc will in next couple of months be 0.5btc or even less , though bitcoin is volatile in nature but is very deflate in economy way.
September 15, 2019, 12:31:02 AM
In the case of gold certificates things are similar, it is just that those two stages are reversed. Namely in stage one, one party of the exchange deposits some gold at the bank and receives a certificate for it. This certificate is then traded for goods or services and in that way put into circulation. In stage two the opposite party i.e. a current holder of the certificate takes it to the bank to claim the deposited gold. Once the holder receives the gold the exchange process is finished. And this is how goods and services are exchanged with the help of gold certificates.
So the solution is easy. Just make Bitcoin certificates and use that as money. Problem solved
On a more serious note, anyone can establish a rather arbitrary definition of A and then claim that B is not A because B does not fit that arbitrary definition. But there's no knowledge to be gained from that line of argumentation.
Nice one. you know exactly what the poster is aiming at. I mean with your "Just make Bitcoin certificates and use that as money" suggestion. I think it can be replicated in Bitcoin world.. why not? I think the idea will work great if it's done well by a company/startup.
OP other criticisms are bit confusing. It seems he want some kind of intermediary in Bitcoin world. That would go against the ideal of Bitcoin.
September 14, 2019, 03:41:46 AM
Bitcoin is neither real nor new money but new fake money, and that's due to simple fact it cannot perform the primary function of money. Repeating the mantra of it being money won't make said fact go away.
that's true but also repeating the mantra that "bitcoin is fake money" doesn't turn it into a fact either.
the only fact is that you are trying so hard here to bend the facts to your own will. otherwise bitcoin is real money and it is performing all the things that are expected of money. it is just new and not-yet-matured compared to the fiat system that has existed for ages!
September 14, 2019, 03:05:57 AM
In the case of gold certificates things are similar, it is just that those two stages are reversed. Namely in stage one, one party of the exchange deposits some gold at the bank and receives a certificate for it. This certificate is then traded for goods or services and in that way put into circulation. In stage two the opposite party i.e. a current holder of the certificate takes it to the bank to claim the deposited gold. Once the holder receives the gold the exchange process is finished. And this is how goods and services are exchanged with the help of gold certificates.
So the solution is easy. Just make Bitcoin certificates and use that as money. Problem solved
On a more serious note, anyone can establish a rather arbitrary definition of A and then claim that B is not A because B does not fit that arbitrary definition. But there's no knowledge to be gained from that line of argumentation.
Nice one. you know exactly what the poster is aiming at. I mean with your "Just make Bitcoin certificates and use that as money" suggestion. I think it can be replicated in Bitcoin world.. why not? I think the idea will work great if it's done well by a company/startup.
OP other criticisms are bit confusing. It seems he want some kind of intermediary in Bitcoin world. That would go against the ideal of Bitcoin.
September 14, 2019, 02:15:08 AM
Bitcoin is neither real nor new money but new fake money, and that's due to simple fact it cannot perform the primary function of money. Repeating the mantra of it being money won't make said fact go away.
that's true but also repeating the mantra that "bitcoin is fake money" doesn't turn it into a fact either.
the only fact is that you are trying so hard here to bend the facts to your own will. otherwise bitcoin is real money and it is performing all the things that are expected of money. it is just new and not-yet-matured compared to the fiat system that has existed for ages!
September 13, 2019, 11:15:43 PM
Incorrect terms -
instead of $ = real money and BTC = fake money,
it should be $ = old money and BTC = new money.
That is right, I think that dollar reign is beginning to come to an end because to me it has even caused more damage to the world, and it has been used as means of corruption more than we think it is, it was the lapses in the dollar system that made satoshi think of coming up with a technology that would correct some of the mess that has been created by dollar overtime.instead of $ = real money and BTC = fake money,
it should be $ = old money and BTC = new money.
One of the benefit of bitcoin as money is that it has limited supply, and that is how money should behave in a normal circumstance, unlike USD that is into limited and can even be printed by any drug lord, so what is the real thing about that. Since fiat has been in existence, it has been one problem or the other in the world, so it is time we try a new system of cryptocurrency which will serve as global currency.
September 13, 2019, 02:23:31 PM
Incorrect terms -
instead of $ = real money and BTC = fake money,
it should be $ = old money and BTC = new money.
That is right, I think that dollar reign is beginning to come to an end because to me it has even caused more damage to the world, and it has been used as means of corruption more than we think it is, it was the lapses in the dollar system that made satoshi think of coming up with a technology that would correct some of the mess that has been created by dollar overtime.instead of $ = real money and BTC = fake money,
it should be $ = old money and BTC = new money.
One of the benefit of bitcoin as money is that it has limited supply, and that is how money should behave in a normal circumstance, unlike USD that is into limited and can even be printed by any drug lord, so what is the real thing about that. Since fiat has been in existence, it has been one problem or the other in the world, so it is time we try a new system of cryptocurrency which will serve as global currency.
September 13, 2019, 03:10:19 AM
I can prove that all currencies are fake money.
When I take a trip to the U.S., I buy goods with dollars. That's stage one. However, I am paid in euros, so there is never any stage two. Therefore, dollars are fake money. When someone from the U.S. visits Spain, they do the same thing. Therefore, the euro is fake money. You can extend this to any currency.
Therefore, all currencies are fake money.
When I take a trip to the U.S., I buy goods with dollars. That's stage one. However, I am paid in euros, so there is never any stage two. Therefore, dollars are fake money. When someone from the U.S. visits Spain, they do the same thing. Therefore, the euro is fake money. You can extend this to any currency.
Therefore, all currencies are fake money.
LOL
btw, what is the main intent of the op why he presented an argument that bitcoin is fake money? if he believes on what he wrote, why is he here in this forum??? everyone can make a good argument why bitcoin is fake, why bitcoin is really worthless and so on and so forth.
but whats the point? we are already in this stage where BTC has already surpassed a lot of hurdles and its position in the crypto market is still going strong.
He is here to put up this argument that bitcoin is fake, I guess, since this is forum is a discussion related to bitcoins. I think the point he is trying to make is that bitcoin can’t be used everywhere like fiat does, though bitcoin is becoming popular nowadays not all establishments accepts bitcoin thus, you have to convert it to the accepted currency before you can buy anything.
Bitcoin is not at all fake because you can convert it to accepted currency and buy something, I think the only thing that make bitcoin fake are those people who use it in a bad way.
September 13, 2019, 01:59:52 AM
~snip~
when the government accept it as a currency or a medium of exchange. 
The only thing government has to control its citizen is to control their finance. Government knows it very well and they will do everything in their power to have their control over their citizens. when the government accept it as a currency or a medium of exchange.
Problem is: Regular people, average joe are not financially educated. In some cases a financially educated person does not bother much. Thanks to Bitcoin, decentralized technology that gives us hope.
No, governments can control a lot more things than people's finances. In China we have the "Great Firewall of China" that are being used for Internet censorship and this is used to prevent Western influence and open-minded thought. So coming back to "Bitcoin is fake money" you would see how internet censorship would influence the adoption of a global border-less currency and how a government can play a key role in preventing this.
This is why I am saying that governments are key to the mainstream adoption of Crypto currencies and without their support, Bitcoin would not go mainstream.
September 12, 2019, 11:19:07 PM
Cryptos entered as a new form of currency in the vocabulary(the virtual currency). Virtual currencies such as bitcoins have no physical existence and are traded and stored in electronic form. So what I am saying is it does not really need to fit your definition completely.
Digits added to a dollar bank account via hacking also have no physical existence and are traded and stored electronically when you spent them with a debit card, but that doesn't mean they are not fake digital dollars. September 12, 2019, 05:19:59 AM
Cryptos entered as a new form of currency in the vocabulary(the virtual currency). Virtual currencies such as bitcoins have no physical existence and are traded and stored in electronic form. So what I am saying is it does not really need to fit your definition completely.
September 12, 2019, 04:02:04 AM
Hence, you are using semantics and focus on things irrelevant for this topic.
If you don't want to follow logic, that's your problem. Hacking into bank is not creating counterfeit money. Period.
However, the fact you don't want to follow logic means that you are most probably trolling and I don't intend to feed trolls, so I'll stop here. Have a nice day.
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September 12, 2019, 03:44:17 AM
~snip~
when the government accept it as a currency or a medium of exchange.
The only thing government has to control its citizen is to control their finance. Government knows it very well and they will do everything in their power to have their control over their citizens. when the government accept it as a currency or a medium of exchange.
Problem is: Regular people, average joe are not financially educated. In some cases a financially educated person does not bother much. Thanks to Bitcoin, decentralized technology that gives us hope.
September 12, 2019, 03:37:53 AM
Hence, you are using semantics and focus on things irrelevant for this topic.
If you don't want to follow logic, that's your problem. Hacking into bank is not creating counterfeit money. Period.
However, the fact you don't want to follow logic means that you are most probably trolling and I don't intend to feed trolls, so I'll stop here. Have a nice day.
September 12, 2019, 03:29:19 AM
If you hack your bank and put some additional zeros to you account you basically counterfeited digital dollars, but no original thing to copy it existed. So given your logic it is impossible to make fake digital money. This is obviously absurd. Fake money is the one that is intrinsically worthless and is put into circulation with the intention to extract real money, goods and services from other people, without providing these people something valuable in the future.
As I said, you don't understand money. If you hack in a bank, you don't create counterfeit dollars.
The dollar is the physical form for debt. For "I owe you" a certain amount of.. things.
When the banks will show you a number in the account, that's not dollars, since it's not physical. That's simply "the bank owes you this amount". Completely different thing! That's why for every dollar you deposit, they can lend .. how many? 6, 8? Because it's only a promise, not money.
When you pay with the card, you "transact" the same "I owe you" in the digital form. It's not (physical) dollars.
And when you hack in, you trick the bank to think they owe you back more than you deposited. When you withdraw from ATM, you'll get dollars. And I don't know any ATM the delivers fake dollars.
September 12, 2019, 03:23:00 AM
So by your definition of Money a intermediary such as Bank should exist to identify him as a party responsible for putting money into circulation... 
Well, that is exactly why Bitcoin was developed to remove the power of corrupt Banks from our monetary system.
My definition of money is a system of money in general use in a particular country. Bitcoin is becoming more mainstream now and it is just a question of time, before we can say that it is in general use. It only becomes legal tender, when the government accept it as a currency or a medium of exchange.
Well, that is exactly why Bitcoin was developed to remove the power of corrupt Banks from our monetary system. My definition of money is a system of money in general use in a particular country. Bitcoin is becoming more mainstream now and it is just a question of time, before we can say that it is in general use.
It only becomes legal tender, when the government accept it as a currency or a medium of exchange. Jump to: