Videos of WoodCollector Hand Carving: Care of MOB - page 22.

smoothie

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Quote from: TECSHARE on January 25, 2015, 04:23:58 PM

Quote from: nubbins on January 25, 2015, 01:50:47 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 25, 2015, 12:28:52 PM

He applied those router lines BY HAND. Not by laser, Not by CNC, but with a HAND ROUTER.

Sounds like speculation rather than fact.

Shill or moron. Probably not a good idea to trust either way. Negative feedback left.

Actually no. That is experience with woodworking tools AS WELL as experience with laser engravers. I know for a fact he could have accomplished that exact effect with a hand guided router. You, however deny this possibility and claim it could ONLY have been created by a laser engraver or CNC. THAT is called speculation. The fact that you continue to insinuate he is just doing all of this as an elaborate ploy to deceive everyone here after he released the video of his HAND CARVING demonstrates very clearly your lack of a grasp on reality.

By the way Nubbins, if you think abusing your position on the default trust in an attempt to intimidate myself and others into silence will work, you are SORELY mistaken. You just turned what was just a discussion, into a personal vendetta with me now by abusing the trust system in an attempt to punish me for disagreeing with you in public. You have also done the same to MANY other users over this incident for doing nothing more than disagreeing with you and your mob action, as well as convinced others to do the same. You are going to need to use a telescope to see the sky from the depth of the hole you are digging for yourself.

So first you say he applied those router lines by hand then you say he "could".

LOL so are you back pedaling now? Sure sounded like you KNEW he did it now you are saying he could have done it by that means.

Grin

Yes we should all listen to TECSHARE and heed his advice/insights as ultimate truth. Roll Eyes

Quickseller

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Quote from: smoothie on January 25, 2015, 05:11:13 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on January 25, 2015, 02:38:11 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on January 25, 2015, 02:33:54 PM

Quote from: bitspill on January 25, 2015, 01:10:14 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on January 25, 2015, 12:32:54 PM

Read my question again please...key phase "in this video".

He may have done the design by hand (doubt it) but when video starts it is already there.

Do you disagree with that?

Wow. You should be either a lawyer or a news reporter. You're good at manipulating questions just to get the answer you desire.

I'm not sure if that was meant in support or derision, but
I'll take it as a compliment, thank you.

It is not hard to ask the right questions
when you stick to the point.

What is the point?

The point is that this video was supposed to prove
WoodCollector's skills in hand carving.

Since the wood is already engraved to large
degree at the start of the video, who in
their right mind would conclude that this
is a good proof of hand carving skills?

And why in the world is Tecshare asserting
that something was done by hand
that's NOT in the video?

You obviously do not think it is possible to carve that kind of detail without having some kind of reference do you? I would say that burning a sketch of what he is to carve into the wood would not take away from the fact that he was hand carving his pieces.

And I would. Having nicely burnt out stencil to "carve" around is not hand-carving.

He claims he used carbon paper to do a stencil and only that. Not he is supposedly using another tool?

Please...

I think at this point we are primarily arguing about semantics. I don't think this is anywhere near the scandal it was made out to be.

Did he misrepresent himself in claiming to "hand carve" all his pieces? Probably but this really depends on your definition of "hard carved", and pre these threads would probably not demanded such a strict definition of "hand carved" as is being asked for now.

Would his art have been valued/sold for less if these threads were never made but WC published the same video for potential customers to see how is art is made? Maybe - but not 90%+ levels as previously discussed as the pieces are made in a manual fashion and WC would need to put a lot of work into his pieces and would not sell for 90%+ discounts (he would be earning sub min wage if he did). The use of a laser implies (to me) that the pieces were made via some automated process.

Was he using a laser to carve the piece in the video? No. He may have used something to burn the sketch into the wood, however as mentioned above the disclosure of such would not diminish the value of his work by 90%+

MrTeal

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Quote from: smoothie on January 25, 2015, 04:31:40 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on January 25, 2015, 11:07:15 AM

That video was enough to convince me. Congrats WC, you've managed to settle the debate.

As BG4 said, everyone if free to make up their own mind on this, but at least we know the caliber of WC's ability.

How so did he settle the debate given all of the previously discussed issues?

Which issue did he settle?

The not using a "laser" part? ...I love how the video starts with a stencil already burned into the wood. Gosh how come we didn't get to see how that is done? Roll Eyes

There's obviously the issue of his previous customers, but going forward I think WC has chosen to give a good representation of his level of skill in this video. He was challenged to provide a demonstration of his hand carving process (I suggested some of the intricate detail shown here, and he provided a video of him removing bulk material up to a pre-cut line using a Dremel.

If someone now wants to ignore all the red under his name and still buy one of his coins for thousands of dollars after looking at this stuff...

stingleword

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Out of crypto entirely and don't miss it

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 25, 2015, 04:23:58 PM

Quote from: stingleword on January 25, 2015, 03:19:39 PM

1) The works are advertised as "hand-carved" and this video is described as "hand carving". This is not hand carving. You use handheld power tools; therefore this is hand crafting. You also explicitly stated that you did work with a hand-guided router. That's a fabrication machine, not a powered hand tool. It's been on a fabrication table; therefore, it's a mechanically fabricated work even if all the machining was done by hand. Misrepresenting your work as hand-carved is an attempt to overprice it. You could argue that it is still hand-crafted and possibly win the argument, but there is no way this work could be called "hand carving". (Disagree? Ask an Amish woodworker that actually does hand-carve everything.)

1) So, because he used hand guided tools on part of his projects, the actual manual hand tool carving he does in addition suddenly is not hand carving? So unless he does EVERYTHING from start to finish with manual hand tools, it is not "hand carved"? You sound completely ridiculous.

2)I know several professional woodworkers who smoke in their shops. Is it safe? Maybe not. Is it proof he is not a professional woodworker? Not in the slightest. This is just more circumstantial nonsense woven into a big web of bullshit theories.

Carving with hand tools is hand carving. Hand crafting with power tools is not hand carving. A piece crafted with power tools is not hand carved, even if some hand carving was done to finish the work. This distinction does directly impact the value of the item no matter what is being produced.

Since you know of woodworkers that endanger themselves, their peers, and customers, while quite possibly violating local business and safety laws, that also claim to be professional, I must therefore be wrong despite having actively been involved in the industry. Despite having praised the quality of the work I am somehow lumped into a mysterious crowd of people making a scam accusation. Let me make this perfectly clear.

I am not accusing WoodCollector of scamming, or attempting to scam anyone.

One does not need to be a professional to do quality work, and I maintain this is quality work. It just isn't what was advertised, which is "hand-carved artwork". It's not; it's hand-crafted. That doesn't make it any less quality. It was misrepresented, and that is my one and only complaint and reason for not being interested in what is otherwise superb and beautiful craftmanship offered by a skilled artist.

redsn0w

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#Free market

At the end the video doesn't prove anything .

smoothie

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Quote from: SodaWarz on January 25, 2015, 02:44:00 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on January 25, 2015, 02:22:43 PM

So where is his pivot hole? I can't see one.

But that's besides the point, all indications are the "fuck you nubbins" piece was done using a cnc router.
The letters are flawless, along with the middle finger, and using a palm router you aren't gonna do that. Besides it makes no sense to do this kind of work by hand if you have access to cnc equipment, (which has been pretty much established at this point).
What remains is what it appears to be some guy exploiting his fablab membership to sell make believe handicraft works.

Pivot hole? Are you really that inept?

There are about a dozen ways to do the same thing when you cannot leave a hole behind. My personal favorite is by gluing a pin to the center with some wood glue. Takes about 4 hours to dry, and once the circles are done, you can knock it off with a hammer, and 5 seconds with a power sander will remove the glue marks.

You guys are seriously pathetic and way far out on a very shaky limb with all this shit.

The letters are flawless? No shit Sherlock, how hard is it to trace over a line?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNcojZRQK7w

Takes me 10 seconds on youtube to make you look like an idiot. How much more time to do you want to invest on sealing your fate?

It is better to be thought an idiot and remain silent than to open your mouth and remove all doubts. You and your MOB are going down in a ball of smoke and flames, might want to think about your actions for a minute before its too late and you lose all credibility you ever had in this place.

Okay you should keep overlooking the fact that the piece he was "carving" is in no way shape or form close to the level of detail of his other pieces he touted on this forum.

This video proves nothing of that sort.

smoothie

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Quote from: Quickseller on January 25, 2015, 02:38:11 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on January 25, 2015, 02:33:54 PM

Quote from: bitspill on January 25, 2015, 01:10:14 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on January 25, 2015, 12:32:54 PM

Read my question again please...key phase "in this video".

He may have done the design by hand (doubt it) but when video starts it is already there.

Do you disagree with that?

Wow. You should be either a lawyer or a news reporter. You're good at manipulating questions just to get the answer you desire.

I'm not sure if that was meant in support or derision, but
I'll take it as a compliment, thank you.

It is not hard to ask the right questions
when you stick to the point.

What is the point?

The point is that this video was supposed to prove
WoodCollector's skills in hand carving.

Since the wood is already engraved to large
degree at the start of the video, who in
their right mind would conclude that this
is a good proof of hand carving skills?

And why in the world is Tecshare asserting
that something was done by hand
that's NOT in the video?

You obviously do not think it is possible to carve that kind of detail without having some kind of reference do you? I would say that burning a sketch of what he is to carve into the wood would not take away from the fact that he was hand carving his pieces.

And I would. Having nicely burnt out stencil to "carve" around is not hand-carving.

He claims he used carbon paper to do a stencil and only that. Not he is supposedly using another tool?

Please...

smoothie

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on January 25, 2015, 02:33:54 PM

Quote from: bitspill on January 25, 2015, 01:10:14 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on January 25, 2015, 12:32:54 PM

Read my question again please...key phase "in this video".

He may have done the design by hand (doubt it) but when video starts it is already there.

Do you disagree with that?

Wow. You should be either a lawyer or a news reporter. You're good at manipulating questions just to get the answer you desire.

I'm not sure if that was meant in support or derision, but
I'll take it as a compliment, thank you.

It is not hard to ask the right questions
when you stick to the point.

What is the point?

The point is that this video was supposed to prove
WoodCollector's skills in hand carving.

Since the wood is already engraved to large
degree at the start of the video, who in
their right mind would conclude that this
is a good proof of hand carving skills?

And why in the world is Tecshare asserting
that something was done by hand
that's NOT in the video?

Don't you know, TECSHARE knows everything. Cheesy

The guy is a joke.

smoothie

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Quote from: SodaWarz on January 25, 2015, 02:10:42 PM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on January 25, 2015, 12:36:14 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 25, 2015, 12:11:07 PM

The initial design itself was applied with a HAND GUIDED router.

Goodness gracious. Next you are telling me he traced those outer circles with micron level precision.

100% he did, I WAS A PROFESSIONAL CARPENTER and cabinet maker AND AM WILLING TO BACK THAT STATEMENT UP. Its how i put myself through college.

This is what you get when a bunch of basement dwelling nerds who have never touched a power tool in their life decide they are experts on wood working

Want to see how he did it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOEu77gavYk

Now shut up and stop proving everyone's point that you are all just on a never ending witch hunt with no basis for any of your claims.

LOL so posting a video that is not WC should convince us that is what he did?

Uh no. Sorry come back and try again. Cheesy

funkenstein

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Khazad ai-menu!

While you guys are arguing over the semantics of a transaction accepted by both parties, forests are being cut down to satisfy fiat loans and families are being separated by border fascists. Billions have no idea how to use public currency. Could you try for some more productive choices of battles please?

Thanks -- funkenstein the dwarf

smoothie

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Quote from: TECSHARE on January 25, 2015, 12:28:52 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on January 25, 2015, 12:22:33 PM

Tecshare,

Regardless of how the original design was applied, all he did in this video is trace around pre-engraved lines.

Do you disagree?

I do disagree. He applied those router lines BY HAND. Not by laser, Not by CNC, but with a HAND ROUTER. The fact that he "traced" lines is irrelevant, because any artist with sufficiently detailed work almost always applies their design down first to work around. How are the proper proportions and details supposed to be applied otherwise? Just by memory and his alien like ability to apply designs on wood without any guide?

What is NOT irrelevant however, is the fact that NO LASER WAS USED, as this was the entire premise to begin with. the fact that these retards are now claiming he made this video as some kind of fakerry is BEYOND PATHETIC, is completely devoid of logic, and just a result of the inability to admit they were wrong.

That video took almost 2 days to upload... if he had edited it you would all be screaming about him doing things off camera. He said he had more videos and will post them. Nothing I have seen him say is in any way suspicious to me, because I am not completely ignorant as to what goes into the craft of woodworking. I can guarantee however that pretty much everyone here attacking him is though. It is easy to argue from a position of ignorance, because you don't know enough about the situation to have any clue of what is going on!

Okay then why not include that in the video he posted?

Do you want to speak for WoodCollector again since you supposedly have a physic connection to the guy?

You know exactly what he did right? Even with no proof of it?

LOL

Looks like you should be the one eating a shit sandwich. You are grasping at straws with no evidence to back up your claims. Speculation. Roll Eyes

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 25, 2015, 04:23:58 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on January 25, 2015, 03:31:55 PM

I think if WC agreed to use this label from now on, and refunded those customers
who were unhappy because of this scandal, he would win a lot of respect
(mine included), despite all the foolishness that has occurred so far.

Who the fuck are you to demand anything from him? If his customers ACTUALLY have a problem nothing is stopping them from posting here or anywhere else on the forum to get resolution. This is just more obsessive compulsive 2 bit mall cop control game bullshit in a last ditch attempt to get him to admit fault where there NEVER WAS ANY.

WOW...You are twisted dude... I'm not surprised Nubbins left you
negative feedback about your judgement.

1. I'm not DEMANDING anything here. I said that IF
he offers customers refunds, I would respect that. Am
I not allowed to express that opinion? Wtf?

2. There HAVE been customers ACTUALLY having
problems. One has come forward and there
are allegations of several others that wish
to be anonymous.

3. This is the best 'olive branch' offer WC is going to get...
It's a way for everyone to move forward
without WC admit any wrongdoing, and you are too
thick to see that.

smoothie

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BG4

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PaperSafe

https://i.imgur.com/nGUz6A9.jpg

Please take a look at this picture ...please note the bottem of the B between the 2 vertical lines of the bitcoin logo.. note the hexagons that look like the vector art copy and past images dont line up ...why would this be done by hand....unless it was dont by a machine a human artist wouldnt do this type of mistake.....

clearly CNC laser.....

this is by far the most damning evidence that this was not HAND CARVED and indeed LASER CNC worked

fishb0ne

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Wonder if we took all the photos of his work and presented them to an online community of wood carvers, what they would say: 100% hand carved as claimed, or laser cut?

smoothie

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Quote from: nubbins on January 25, 2015, 11:22:49 AM

Quote from: Rawted on January 25, 2015, 11:12:51 AM

Even the simple things like smoking and wearing rings while producing the video clearly shows a disconnect.

I lel'd. Somewhat related, came across this in a book recently:

"Workers in the shop should be cautioned against smoking while at work, especially those whose work calls for repeated physical motions, such as are entailed in manual printing. The nature of such physical activity does not permit the leisurely demeanor of the habitual smoker. Puffing on a cigarette, then carefully balancing it on the edge of a the table to keep an eye on it, then removing the ashes with the gesture of a country squire - these actions are definitely out of place in a busy shop. Not only does smoking tend to retard production, but it is an infringement of the law in the immediate proximity of inflammables. It endangers the life of all"
-Complete Book of Screen Printing Production By: J.I. Biegeleisen, 1963.

I noticed he was smoking as well too. Bad practice?

smoothie

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Quote from: MrTeal on January 25, 2015, 11:07:15 AM

That video was enough to convince me. Congrats WC, you've managed to settle the debate.

As BG4 said, everyone if free to make up their own mind on this, but at least we know the caliber of WC's ability.

How so did he settle the debate given all of the previously discussed issues?

Which issue did he settle?

The not using a "laser" part? ...I love how the video starts with a stencil already burned into the wood. Gosh how come we didn't get to see how that is done? Roll Eyes

ElectricMucus

legendary

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Marketing manager - GO MP

TECSHARE, you are missing the point. This isn't about whenever something can or can't be done using manual tools vs. cnc, it's about whenever WoodCollector really is a master wood carver and the things he sells are in fact his masterpieces.

smoothie

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Quote from: BG4 on January 25, 2015, 10:46:06 AM

Woolcollector sockpuppet list

-------Terrahasher

-------ukcrypto

-------SodaWarz

They appear to have some interest in WC succeeding here as they support him pretty much no matter what evidence is presented.

BG4

legendary

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PaperSafe

I was lead here from a post from reddit..... and could clearly see that someone was pawning off Laser etched wares as hand crafted...knowing what it takes to laser etch wood with vector art I searched and found what was needed to prove otherwise..

My typing style is nothing like nubbins.... as I use... all the time...

I dont post on bitcointalk , but some of the more trusted people here know who I am from other places.. and that I am not nubbins sock puppet

Topic: Videos of WoodCollector Hand Carving: Care of MOB - page 22. (Read 21486 times)