Topic: [VIDEO]The Empirical Proof of Bitcoin's Real Value Being Zero - page 2. (Read 791 times)

Just like before, whenever they intend to buy more they usually cause a FUD for the weak to dump for them to buy. Please, tell them we aren't as before again, we have all learnt our lessons and won't dump for anyone anymore.

Please, never watch such ridiculous video from hell, consider yourself a loser, if you're here as a WHALE! we aren't going to fall.

Using a thing for want satisfying means utilizing or consuming a thing. It doesn't mean transferring a thing from one person to another. Nobody can utilize or consume bitcoin. Bitcoin can only be passed from hand to hand, like membership stakes in ponzi-like schemes.

Yes it is my definition of a financial instrument. So? Defining something simply means describing exactly the nature, scope, or meaning of it. Which was what I did. Where is the problem?

Bitcoin issuers are those who wrote the whitepaper, released the bitcoin software and launched the network. Bitcoins don't just pop up into existence from nowhere. They have issuers like everything else.

Finally, Bitcon is not gold. Gold is an actual, tangible good that has value on its own. Bitcoin is a number - a mathematical abstraction next to your virtual address. On its own it's worthless.

It doesn't matter what the market is, the factor driving prices is always speculation related. In all cases, the market tends to front run the potential 'utility' of an asset, which is why we see Bitcoin at $9k and BSV at $300....

I recall CSW having said that the value for BSV isn't that important, he wants BSV to be a platform people build on, which makes the applications on top of it valuable, BSV not so much.

Ethereum is the most built on platform and generates a shit ton of transaction volume, but its price is still under $200.... It's an indication that people value what's built on top of the protocol more than the native coin.

Using your definition of "Financial Instrument", it is clear that




There are no Bitcoin issuers.  Just like holders of gold are not paid interest or collateral for holding gold, holders of Bitcoin are not paid interest of collateral for holding Bitcoin.


https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pricediscovery.asp


Speculation is nothing more than market participants contributing towards price discovery. Speculators both buy (provide demand) AND sell (provide supply).  For every purchase of bitcoin at an exchange, there is someone willing to sell at that price.  For every sale, there is someone willing to buy at that price.  There are millions of variables that all contribute to the spot price being what it is. Any attempt to label a single thing as the cause of the current price is nonsense and futile.

And declaring it a "Financial Instrument" and then stating that it is worthless doesn't automatically mean that it is worthless.


Finally, we are in agreement on something.  And yet, somehow, you don't seem to believe that Bitcoin provides a benefit to people?


Agreed.  And Bitcoin definitely satisfies various particular wants of various people.


Bitcoin has no issuer, therefore, it appears not to fit your definition of "Financial Instrument".  Perhaps if you stop thinking of it as something with an issuer, you'll begin to see that it gets its value from its ability to "satisfy a particular want" and stop demanding that the issuers that don't exist pay something to the holders.


Bitcoin is more than that.


You are clearly mistaken.  Many people DO use it for "want satisfying".


It has no issuer.


It does not.


And declaring it a Financial Instrument, and demanding that an imaginary issuer pay interest won't make it worthless either.

People don't seem to be able to grasp that declaring something "virtual asset" doesn't automatically mean it has value. Value is the benefit that a thing in itself provides to people. In goods and services this banefit is the ability of a thing to satisfy a particular want. In financial instruments this benefit is payment that instrument issuer makes to instrument holder. Bitcoin is a few digits in a memory. So one cannot use it for want satisfying. Nor its issuer pays something to its holder. This renders Bitcon worthless and declaring it asset, money, digital gold, coin, or whatever, won't make this fact go away.

People don't seem to be able to grasp that virtual assets can have real value. A novel is one example that I provide fairly often. Wouldn't it be great if schoolteachers, and the media could discuss real life topics, and not keep regurgitating globalist pap.

What do you think is mostly driving price up for BTC ?

I'm convinced it is only speculation.


Bitcoin is a protocol for value TRANSFER / audit  with its ledger

BSV has more value such  https://coingeek.com/the-next-genesis-bitcoins-two-beginnings/

Wrong. It's true that BTC and USD are only digital or paper records, but USD issuers (banks) provide USD holders with payments in the form of interest, non-monetary value or collateral, as explained in the video. Bitcon issuers on the other hand, pay nothing to Bitcon holders. USD is backed by collateral of the borrowers or equity of the banks. Bitcon is backed by nothing. Bitcoin is worthless number next to your virtual address.

The fiat and bitcoin has the same speculative fundamentals because if you look at fiat for example the USD, it is only paper money with no real value that is backed with an scarce asset oil. The value depends on the supply/demand of  the market.

Okay, but what will happen if everyone uses Bitcoin and no one contributes fiat money to the cost of Bitcoin because there is enough for everyone the number of bitcoins that already exist? What will happen if people simply exchange bitcoins among themselves?

Value of financial instruments(records on digital, paper, plastic or metal medium) comes from payments that their issuers provide to their holders. Fiat currencies, the same as bonds, stocks, CFD-s, futures, options, ... are records whose issuers provide various types of payments to their holders during the circulation of these instruments, or at their maturity, liquidation or withdrawal from circulation. Dollars for example are liquidated or withdrawn from circulation at loan payments. Bitcoin on the other hand is a record whose issuers never pay anything to its holders, nor is Bitcon ever liquidated or withdrawn from circulation by these issuers. Bitcoin is therefore a worthless record in an infinite circulation, that operates the same as ponzi-like scheme, since its holders can be paid only from funds of new investors. Even a $100 poker chip is more valuable than all bitcoins in the world, since issuer of this chip pays an equivalent amount of cash for it, while Bitcon issuers pay nothing.

It did not.


Correct.  Bitcoin has value. Coincidentally, it also has price, but price is only an attempt by the markets to try to determine what that value might be.

Segwit killed that

Price is not value btw

Fortunately, Bitcoin has "real value", so market value doesn't matter.

Personally I don't give an attention to such videos, doesn't matter whether it will be bitcoin related or not.
What has value? Can you really tell me? What's good and what's bad? We decide it, yeah? So can 100% say the same on value. Nothing has value in reality, for lion it doesn't matter whether you give it gold or iron, food is what they are looking for and crave.
The value of gold, oil and etc, all of this is psychological factor.
If we think like the author of video, then USD has no value, it's just a piece of paper and I own 48 of them in notepaper and I have 100x such notepaper, I should be very rich. But again, value is psychological factor.

Do you believe this yourself?
Probably not, in other case you would not register on this forum.
Real value or not the truth stays the same - people were making money on it, they do and they will as long as the whole subject exists.

Your whole post is based on ignorance between market value and real value. Watch the video again.

So we are greedy and we act like fools.

So where is the proof that bitcoin's "Real" Value is zero?

What gives anything its "Value"

I would argue that financial value can be easily proven through the market. Even if we were all greedy fools, then bitcoin still has value.

Define the word "Empirically" and you will find that it contradicts your whole argument. Things proven empirically are things proven in the real world, not based on logic or theory.

Your argument is a theory based argument.


It's almost as old as bitcoin. You are all greedy fools and bitcoin is worthless.

But empirically I have bought and sold things using bitcoin.


I have eaten my lunch at work using bitcoin and I have worked (a little bit) for bitcoin.
Empirically bitcoin has value and that value is not zero.

If empirically the value of bitcoin was zero, you wouldn't mind giving me 100,000 Bitcoins for $100 since you'd be able to get 100,000 Bitcoins for 0 dollars.

So prove it to me. Send me 100,000 Bitcoins.

Oh what, you can't?

That's right because I just proved you to be a total "can't" no offence given to can't with a U either.

Edit:    Changed "Bitcoin'" to "Bitcoin's"
Edit 2: Changed "do" to "to" in "to be a total"

I agree with you. One who comes here looking for insight about how bitcoin and the blockchain system works should not go by this video said user just posted. Because they will have misinformation given to them by one of those robotic voice instructional type videos you see posted on youtube about such things as how eggs are dangerous for you and how the government is part of the illuminati (shadow government) and is just picking at straws to be honest.
What I am saying, there is no substance to this video so avoid adding to their view count please.
It stood at 114 so those individuals have been infected with utter nonsense and pure drivel.
One can say the current financial system is a ponzi with the banks not actually hold the funds you see on the screen in your own bank account.
I liked when a rally was done to schedule everyone to try and withdraw all the funds from their bank accounts. And see if the banks can do it.
I never did hear about the result of it but would be interesting to see what the outcome was done in that one country.

It took gold / XAU some 100 / 1000 years to come up / be there - and stil has quite high volatility


we have Bitcoin not close to any stable value after 5 years and lots of forks in the zero sum game

(Segwit is 2 years old ... forget that)

Nothing can be said yet