Topic: [VIDEO]The Empirical Proof of Bitcoin's Real Value Being Zero - page 3. (Read 773 times)

Bitcoin IS a valuable possession.

Bitcoin has value just like gold has value.  It is more like a commodity than a "financial instrument".  There are no "issuers" of Bitcoin, just like there are no "issuers" of gold.

Control over Bitcoins offers value on its own, so there is no need for "some payment to holders".

Price for bitcoins might be zero for the real world, but considering the digital world where we all survive and earn profits, we all know how valuable bitcoins is. Bitcoins have no fundamental value because it does not guarantee the payee that the payer pays and hence it might not be considered as a regulatory mean of payment outside the internet and hence it might be determined as zero value.

But, it is not the case with bitcoins as transacting with them digitally over the internet proves the proof of funds and the transactions occur at the following blocks for specific price. There are two actual worlds. First, where there is no internet and traditional payment methods overrule the markets and the second where currencies are been evolved into digital currencies. It depends on you, which world you want to survive. I choose the second.

A sluggish engine is better than no engine at all. But FIAT engine is not sluggish since the majority of people do reply their loans and pledge collateral and in that way provide non-monetary payments to dollar holders. The rest of dollar holders are paid from bank's equity, since dollars are the liability of the banks.

As far as I can see the video is mostly downvoted.
I watched a few seconds and it's funny that you're giving instructions about the banking system like it was a working machine, while in fact it's a malfunctioning machine that may soon completely break down.
You say "this is how loan works, this is how colateral works, this is what banks will do if they default" No! This is what they are supposed to do but they don't. If they were working as they were intended to centuries ago there wouldn't be a Lehman Brothers collapse and Deutche Bank wouldn't be firing half of its staff.

I am not implying that you're all idiots for holding bitcoin. I am implying that you act like idiots. Being an idiot and acting like one are two different things. Under extreme emotional pressure(greed) or due to ignorance, even intelligent people can act very idiotically. Those that would give you a nice meal for some BTC (worthless record) are good example of such behavior.

OK Mr. "I Hate Nothing" You're obviously taking a shit on bitcoin. You're implying that we're all idiots for holding bitcoin to have value and this is your defense: Oh I don't hate on useless bitcoin it's just a piece of software.

I'm not surprised you have 0 merits earned in this forum. I know that I and others will give merit where merit is due, even to bitcoin haters or people who have completely opposing ideologies to our own.

My only question is why? Why make this content?

Now let's rehash some points on to how bitcoin is not much different than other forms of money, and perhaps even better:


Here's how USD is created. A bank loans out $1000 using $100 of reserves. $900 created. Then the person who got the $900 gives it to someone else and he deposits $500 in the bank. The bank now can loan out another $5000.

It's all bullshit. Bitcoin may not be a physical thing but at least it can't be created using debt.

Now why do you hate on Bitcoin? Bitcoin does have inherent value as a utility. Gold is just a shiny metal and more can be mined or found.  Fiat currency is paper. Bitcoin's value is a monetary one but it also has proven scarcity so in my book it's superior to fiat and gold.

There are millions of people in the world that would give me a nice meal for some BTC I bet. And I would make someone a nice meal if they gave me some BTC. The world is still playing catch up but eventually there will be adoption. It may just take another 10-20 years.

edit: added "not" after "bitcoin may"

Why would anyone hate record in a database, as this is all what Bitcon is - a digital record held in a computer. I hate nothing. I am pointing out the human stupidity of purchasing this record for thousands of dollars although it pays zero monetary or non-monetary value to its holders. On their own, all financial instruments are worthless paper or digital records. That's why their issuers must provide some payment to their holders, and it is this payment what gives them value. Bitcoin issuers pay nothing, which renders Bitcoin worthless. Giving up valuable possessions just to be the holder of worthless digital record, is a very good example of how stupid can the humans be.

What Fundemental feature are you talking about ?
Fundem feature is actually based on the age old traditional currencies whose value would plummet soon enough , Change is the nature of nature.
This is actually a very good example of how stupid can the humans be , wasting their time on Hating bitcoins and proving the value to be zero , instead go to your computer and give us a better option , discover a good option if your think this is a failure .

Same was said for bitcoin when it was launched in 2008, those who accepted and start accumulating it are now called whales. One has the right to say anything he want for bitcoin but the point is bitcoin is a reality.

Interesting, in the Satoshi White Paper  it says that Bitcoin s value comes from having it as a provable chain of signatures, where signatures are most critical in our internet world.

Second it calls for honest a lot.

You must be a fan of BSV, cause that's really following the white paper.

True is, any shitcoin that has no high potential of all sorts of interconnected things you need to have / transact / store onchain, just are worthless. Most are even non compliant and damned illegal.Top scam coin is XrP. Just printed security at will, no use

Bitcoin issuers are those who wrote the whitepaper, released the bitcoin software and launched the network.

There are no 'Bitcoin issuers'. Maybe go back to reading the whitepaper before spewing more verbal diarrhea?

Yes, I know this very well. Surely no one here wants to hold on to a volatile asset class and there are very few services that accept payments in bitcoin. But that's just the situation at the moment. What do you think about half of the world's population believes that bitcoin is digital gold? then many people will put money to buy bitcoin because it is traded a lot on large exchanges and buying it is easy. We can buy it for the right price and very low fee. As the crowd increasingly accepts that, the world will adopt a new type of digital asset. our world can happen anything, it is important how the crowd will prove it. I believe that bitcoin is now worth nothing, but one day in the future it will become the easiest asset to use and exchange.

Fidelity cannot change facts. The fact is that Bitcoin issuers pay nothing to Bitcon holders. The fact is also that the real value of a financial instrument is in a direct causal relationship with payment. The more an instrument issuer pays the higher the instrument's real value will be. And vice versa, the less it pays the lower the instrument's real value will be. If it pays zero the instrument's real value is zero. Whatever Fidelity does, won't change this casual relationship. This relationship is factual, empirical - you can observe it at every instance of economic reality.

When you tell the flat Earth or Bitcoin community that the Earth is round or that Bitcoin has zero real value, you are spreading FUD by definition. I got that. But what that has to do with Earth's shape or Bitcoin's value? Nothing. The topic at hand in not about emotions in the bitcoin community but about Bitcoin's real value.

Why did I know this vid would have a robotic voice before even opening it?

Show yourself and let's hear your honeyed tones, laboured breathing and sloppy chops.

As for the theme of the vid, that's lovely. Have fun.

The real value for bitcoins is above $9400 as you said, but perhaps in the traditional world bitcoins might not have any value yet. In the real world, traditional payment systems are been encouraged which includes paper money, digital centralized wallets like PayPal, etc which can easily be traded by the people for a specific value. Their value does not keep on changing to major extend as the time passes by which as compared to bitcoins might never have a stable price.

Bitcoins have most volatile price which can't allow the people/investors to rely on a single stable price of bitcoins and this is what might have kept the value of bitcoins zero to the real world who do not have the ability to understand the graphs and patterns.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't it kind of different to compare Bitcoin to the rest as show in in the video? I mean, there's a single entity, let's say the company, that is behind those you call "issuers". Then, there's Bitcoin, in which your argument states holds no issuers.

The start is different because companies could produce their payments, while Bitcoin, in its entirety, already exists at its creation. Just that, it requires a community to pull it out, so we could technically say that the community is both the issuers and the holders. In situation A where companies issue money/stocks/etc to the world, after issuing it, it flows through the globe, but in Situation B, you can already say that the money flows to the globe without the need for someone to issue it, hence the unneeded factor of paying something back to its holders, because holders are issuers themselves, and at the same time, issuers are holders themselves.

Fidelity, a company with $2,460,000,000,000 under its management, seems to disagree: https://unchained-capital.com/blog/bitcoin-obsoletes-all-other-money/ (tweeted here: https://twitter.com/DigitalAssets/status/1223306849275076608?s=19)

You are horribly failing at what you're doing. No sure what your agenda is but you should consider.to stop wasting your time and go do something else.

I don't need to watch the video. I just need to look at the price of Bitcoin right now. It says Bitcoin is price valued at $9,405.65. That is enough to debunk any claim that Bitcoin's real value is zero. The real value of a few thousand bills in my country is probably worth less than a couple cups of rice. And yet, because of the value we assign to those small cuts of paper, we can actually buy a sack of rice with them. Every value is assigned.