[VIDEO]The Nasty Secret of Bitcoin Exposed - page 3.

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on January 17, 2020, 09:34:57 AM

If you don't like bitcoin go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to take part it's your own free will and choice.

If haters can't even distance themselves from Bitcoin because it's too interesting to keep following its progress, you know Bitcoin is doing something right.

In the end, most of the people trying to discredit Bitcoin are simply attempting to get the price to drop. They either want to buy lower, or they think they missed a huge opportunity years ago and now they don't want to see others who did buy in early do well. It's not too late to buy today peeps. Nothing sucks more than missing out once again if you don't start accumulating.

USD is a one-way ticket South. Bitcoin is a one-way ticket North. You can choose.

antikvark

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Quote from: suvo05 on January 17, 2020, 04:30:27 AM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

This is not any secret and it is not required to expose. Every bitcoin holders know that physically the bitcoin has no meaning. It is not regulated by a single person or a team. It is well established now and fundamentally there is a huge difference between fiat and bitcoin. In the video you have tried to compare it with Ponzi schemes but Ponzi is not open-source and it is totally regulated a person or team as the members got engaged into the team the total amount of the scheme got rise and only the owner of the company have all the rights on the money.

The video simply proved that Ponzi and Bitcoin operate on the same principle of turning ownership into membership.

antikvark

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Quote from: Eclipse26 on January 17, 2020, 03:57:27 AM

It doesn't necessarily mean that just because Bitcoin doesn't have physical attribute and doesn't have that certificate of ownership, that makes Bitcoin as a fraudulent scheme. Those assets that were mentioned in the video are a physical asset. And Bitcoin is different from them. Bitcoin can be considered as intangible asset, doesn't have physical substance but a person holding it has a control over it. (Whether he'll use it or store it). It has a value that can bring a future benefit to the holder/owner. It doesn't always have to have a certificate of ownership just to say you own it because Bitcoin is different.

You can also say that membership card of your local sports club is "intangible asset". But that's just semantics. If membership doesn't grant you specific monetary or non-monetary entitlements, then it is completely worthless, it's just symbolic. Bitcoin is like that. It is a digital membership card that grants you zero entitlements, and as such it is worthless. Calling it asset won't magically change this. An asset is either certificate that grants specific entitlements (rights), be it, bond, stock, Fiat, CFD, future contract, patent,... or tangible good. Membership cards, membership coins, or membership certificates are not assets - they are just means to verify that you are a member of some group or a community.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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What a lot of rubbish and the video is terrible quality too just like the content.

If you don't like bitcoin go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to take part it's your own free will and choice.

antikvark

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Quote from: Eugenar on January 17, 2020, 12:54:02 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on January 16, 2020, 11:09:13 PM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Do you know what is fraudulent here? It is this thing you are doing that is fraudulent.

And you claim to be educating people? Come on, you are the one who needs it. Isn't it obvious?

And talking about ownership, Bitcoin offers it 100%. Of course for as long as you do not save it somewhere else beyond your control such as exchange wallets.

Basically what could happen is that, since bitcoin is providing people with absolute freedome to the market and their own funds, people could choose to either be free or to be like what the member means by OP. You actually have the total control over your private keys and trasactions but turns out to be controlled by the market becauae most of the time, we got influenced by the fear of lossing profit. In the first place you just need to be firm and steady, being affected like this post from OP is one example of being manipulated and lost of freedom if entertained.

I totally agree with you. Bitcoin is providing people with absolute freedom with regards to ownership of their property. Before investing into Bitcoin they were the property owners. After the investment they are the holders of digital membership coins, completely free of any property.

suvo05

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Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

This is not any secret and it is not required to expose. Every bitcoin holders know that physically the bitcoin has no meaning. It is not regulated by a single person or a team. It is well established now and fundamentally there is a huge difference between fiat and bitcoin. In the video you have tried to compare it with Ponzi schemes but Ponzi is not open-source and it is totally regulated a person or team as the members got engaged into the team the total amount of the scheme got rise and only the owner of the company have all the rights on the money.

Eclipse26

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bullsvsbears.io

It doesn't necessarily mean that just because Bitcoin doesn't have physical attribute and doesn't have that certificate of ownership, that makes Bitcoin as a fraudulent scheme. Those assets that were mentioned in the video are a physical asset. And Bitcoin is different from them. Bitcoin can be considered as intangible asset, doesn't have physical substance but a person holding it has a control over it. (Whether he'll use it or store it). It has a value that can bring a future benefit to the holder/owner. It doesn't always have to have a certificate of ownership just to say you own it because Bitcoin is different.

k@suy

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Quote from: davis196 on January 17, 2020, 01:51:59 AM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on January 16, 2020, 10:49:55 AM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Seriously! Other day I saw the same with just a different title.

Quote from: antikvark on January 09, 2020, 02:34:23 PM

In the below 6-minute video, it is explained why Bitcoin is a fraud where a gift record is falsely presented to the public as a market item.

https://youtu.be/LlPwmW4XphE

What is your problem? Same video in another post:

Quote from: antikvark on September 10, 2019, 07:47:45 AM

... fake market instrument

Video version of the argument: https://youtu.be/aZzH1Js2l4k

WTF!

If you think your fiat is better than bitcoin then go and give your ass to the FED so that they can put a green dildo in your ass. Or you are getting paid by Ver, Craig and co to spread nonsense about Bitcoin. Get the fuck out of the forum you moron.

Wow,calm down dude.People have different opinions.Maybe the OP isn't a FUDster or BSV supporter.
I wouldn't watch those videos,because I don't think that I will learn something new from the anti-bitcoin theorists.However,we have to respect the opinions of other people,despite the fact,that we disagree with them.

Yes thats correct we have to respect each others decision because we have different perspectives in life and also we have different opinions and knowledge. As a human we often ask questions if we dont know aboit a particular thing and also we are tend to answer questions if we know the answer. Respect is must coz in order for you to be respected by others you also have to respect others.

davis196

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on January 16, 2020, 10:49:55 AM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Seriously! Other day I saw the same with just a different title.

Quote from: antikvark on January 09, 2020, 02:34:23 PM

In the below 6-minute video, it is explained why Bitcoin is a fraud where a gift record is falsely presented to the public as a market item.

https://youtu.be/LlPwmW4XphE

What is your problem? Same video in another post:

Quote from: antikvark on September 10, 2019, 07:47:45 AM

... fake market instrument

Video version of the argument: https://youtu.be/aZzH1Js2l4k

WTF!

If you think your fiat is better than bitcoin then go and give your ass to the FED so that they can put a green dildo in your ass. Or you are getting paid by Ver, Craig and co to spread nonsense about Bitcoin. Get the fuck out of the forum you moron.

Wow,calm down dude.People have different opinions.Maybe the OP isn't a FUDster or BSV supporter.
I wouldn't watch those videos,because I don't think that I will learn something new from the anti-bitcoin theorists.However,we have to respect the opinions of other people,despite the fact,that we disagree with them.

Eugenar

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on January 16, 2020, 11:09:13 PM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Do you know what is fraudulent here? It is this thing you are doing that is fraudulent.

And you claim to be educating people? Come on, you are the one who needs it. Isn't it obvious?

And talking about ownership, Bitcoin offers it 100%. Of course for as long as you do not save it somewhere else beyond your control such as exchange wallets.

Basically what could happen is that, since bitcoin is providing people with absolute freedome to the market and their own funds, people could choose to either be free or to be like what the member means by OP. You actually have the total control over your private keys and trasactions but turns out to be controlled by the market becauae most of the time, we got influenced by the fear of lossing profit. In the first place you just need to be firm and steady, being affected like this post from OP is one example of being manipulated and lost of freedom if entertained.

antikvark

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Quote from: mk4 on January 16, 2020, 09:06:25 PM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 01:19:52 PM

Bitcoin membership is the fact of being a member of a group that gave up their ownership in exchange for digital or paper bitcoin certificates which grant zero ownership rights. Hence, there is no better word for this than membership.

Gave up their ownership? It's literally just a change of what asset they have ownership in. From the ownership of fiat, to ownership of bitcoin. You could use that "membership" argument with literally almost anything.

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 01:19:52 PM

Sure that Bitcoin is a property if a dozen of memory bytes or paper is a property. By certificate I mean paper that verifies the fact that you own property. Gold is property, while a gold certificate is a paper that verifies the existence of this property and displays its quantity and other info.

That's actually one of the strengths of bitcoin. To prove ownership you don't need a printed piece of paper. Instead, you prove ownership by signing messages using certain addresses, or by making a certain transaction.

Yes they gave up their ownership. Either of entitlements (rights to non-monetary repayments in the case of FIAT for e.g.) or need-satisfying goods, commodities, etc. After that, they only have membership. This membership grants zero entitlements, it grants zero ownership rights, and the only way they can benefit is if new investor voluntarily transfers his/her ownership to them by entering into the scheme - which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

Regarding the last paragraph, you talk nonsense. As a Bitcoin holder you own nothing. Bitcoin is a certificate that proves membership not ownership. Dollar is a certificate that proves ownership - of rights to non-monetary repayments. A bond is a certificate that proves ownership - of rights to interest (the coupon) and to repayment of the principal at the maturity date. A stock is a certificate that proves ownership - of rights to a share in a company's profitability or liquidation value. Bitcoin is not such certificate, it proves zero ownership rights. It is just a digital (sometimes paper) certificate of membership in a modern-day fraudulent scheme.

Fundamentals Of

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Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Do you know what is fraudulent here? It is this thing you are doing that is fraudulent.

And you claim to be educating people? Come on, you are the one who needs it. Isn't it obvious?

And talking about ownership, Bitcoin offers it 100%. Of course for as long as you do not save it somewhere else beyond your control such as exchange wallets.

MURONDI

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Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

It seems you really hate bitcoin, but strangely a bitcoin hater is in the bitcoin forum community, Your place should not be here, I'm sure almost all crypto users know the risks, it is their choice, if you don't like it you can leave because no one will care about your words.

mk4

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Paldo.io 🤖

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 01:19:52 PM

Bitcoin membership is the fact of being a member of a group that gave up their ownership in exchange for digital or paper bitcoin certificates which grant zero ownership rights. Hence, there is no better word for this than membership.

Gave up their ownership? It's literally just a change of what asset they have ownership in. From the ownership of fiat, to ownership of bitcoin. You could use that "membership" argument with literally almost anything.

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 01:19:52 PM

Sure that Bitcoin is a property if a dozen of memory bytes or paper is a property. By certificate I mean paper that verifies the fact that you own property. Gold is property, while a gold certificate is a paper that verifies the existence of this property and displays its quantity and other info.

That's actually one of the strengths of bitcoin. To prove ownership you don't need a printed piece of paper. Instead, you prove ownership by signing messages using certain addresses, or by making a certain transaction.

antikvark

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Quote from: mk4 on January 16, 2020, 12:45:41 PM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 12:27:03 PM

Quote from: mk4 on January 16, 2020, 11:36:44 AM

Membership is not an asset. Ownership is an asset. Also, being able or having right to transfer membership doesn't magically turn this membership into ownership.

Stop it with the "membership" bullshit. You're literally the only critic(besides the video creator, assuming it's not you) I've heard that's criticism is that "bitcoin is membership" or something. If you think digital asset = membership then I don't know what to say. Seriously critics are getting worse and worse by the daily; and I thought Nouriel Roubini was bad.

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 12:19:15 PM

If you buy gold than you own gold - an actual property.

Same thing with bitcoin, it's an actual property, it's just not backed by something physical.

Bitcoin membership is the fact of being a member of a group that gave up their ownership in exchange for digital or paper bitcoin certificates which grant zero ownership rights. Hence, there is no better word for this than membership.

Sure that Bitcoin is a property if a dozen of memory bytes or paper is a property. By certificate I mean paper that verifies the fact that you own property. Gold is property, while a gold certificate is a paper that verifies the existence of this property and displays its quantity and other info.

enhu

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Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 12:53:16 PM

Quote from: enhu on January 16, 2020, 12:28:17 PM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 12:10:33 PM

Quote from: Tyrantt on January 16, 2020, 11:07:46 AM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Explaining bitcoin and crypto to a video creator would be like explaining internet to a 70yr old.

Oy vey, bitcoin is a scam, a scheme! C'mon, goy!

Bitcoin is a certificate of membership that grants you zero ownership rights. Try to disprove this simple sentence.

Aren't we allowed to participate in the market by selling and buying BTC? That's ownership rights. Just like digital cash in forex market, they buy and sell currencies.

Of course you wouldn't accept any explanation about that. You're not the only person who is confused about BTC. But you can always talk to yourself if nothing that is presented to you won't get into your mind.

An act of giving one thing and receiving another in return is called exchange, and not ownership. Shure you can exchange your membership certificates. That's the whole point of bitcoin scam - to exchange membership for ownership. That's how scam organizers benefit from it.

You don't put names on your wallet, its a jibberish alphanumeric wallet and not even linked to someone named with a real name which we can consider a membership. You won't sign your name and fill up a form to own BTC that you can consider then a member. We don't have that. No one organized it which is why its decentralize and worth $8K right now. And governments today accepted it. So much for being scam.

DannyHamilton

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The vast majority of people are not exchanging gold for Bitcoin. They are exchanging control over fiat currency (such as USD) for control over Bitcoin. If control over fiat is "ownership", then it seems to me that control over bitcoin is "ownership" in the same way.

antikvark

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Quote from: Hamphser on January 16, 2020, 12:34:09 PM

Another thread with the same topic just like what i saw on the other thread.
OP, is either paid to post this or trying to get some attention to push their agenda against bitcoin.
It's clear that someone doesn't completely understand what is bitcoin.

Being against Bitcoin means refusing to exchange your ownership for membership. What's wrong with refusing to do something, and explaining reasons behind this? Especially is you see that membership if falsely presented to the public as membership?

antikvark

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Quote from: enhu on January 16, 2020, 12:28:17 PM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 12:10:33 PM

Quote from: Tyrantt on January 16, 2020, 11:07:46 AM

Quote from: antikvark on January 16, 2020, 10:24:31 AM

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Explaining bitcoin and crypto to a video creator would be like explaining internet to a 70yr old.

Oy vey, bitcoin is a scam, a scheme! C'mon, goy!

Bitcoin is a certificate of membership that grants you zero ownership rights. Try to disprove this simple sentence.

Aren't we allowed to participate in the market by selling and buying BTC? That's ownership rights. Just like digital cash in forex market, they buy and sell currencies.

Of course you wouldn't accept any explanation about that. You're not the only person who is confused about BTC. But you can always talk to yourself if nothing that is presented to you won't get into your mind.

An act of giving one thing and receiving another in return is called exchange, and not ownership. Sure you can exchange your membership certificates. That's the whole point of bitcoin scam - to exchange membership for ownership. That's how scam organizers benefit from it.

d5000

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Decentralization Maximalist

antikvark, if you want a serious discussion about that topic, please respond to the arguments I made in the other thread in this post and this other answer.

To summarize these posts in a short paragraph, if you're too lazy to read the posts: Bitcoin isn't a fraud because it does not promise any return. A Bitcoin bull may be a fraudster if he promises you a return, but this bull isn't Bitcoin. Bitcoin works perfectly with a stable price where no additional influx of money is necessary, so contrary to ponzis and pyramid schemes it won't collapse (Arguments are thoroughly explained in the other posts).

Topic: [VIDEO]The Nasty Secret of Bitcoin Exposed - page 3. (Read 720 times)