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Topic: Vod - You are a dickhead - page 2. (Read 2727 times)

copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
March 22, 2015, 02:28:55 AM
#29
Well I think he should be given the opportunity to backup his claims. I don't think it is fair to go around saying that he is abusing his position on default trust until he has at least been given some time to either backup his claims that the law is being broken or correct/adjust the trust that he left.

You mean not fair, as in exactly like he does to people he leaves negative ratings for without even bothering to discuss it with them? Funny how VOD some how deserves leniency, yet he affords no such courtesy to others. VOD clearly has a long history of abusing his position on the default trust. This was not the first time he has behaved like this, nor will it be the last.
Well sometimes it is appropriate to leave negative feedback ASAP in order to warn others as quickly as possible about a scam. I have left negative trust a number of times for people as a placeholder while I write up a scam accusacation.

I don't see any issue if Vod were to know for sure that something is in fact illegal but needs some time to research the specific statute that is being broken.
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
March 22, 2015, 02:24:53 AM
#28
I'll stop selling keys immediately, but everyone should do that

Excellent.  Contact me after one month and I will remove the negative feedback.  Smiley

You can read the rest of it right? If not do so. Stop playing games.

There is no "rest of it" to read.  I'm asking you to stop selling keys that will eventually become invalid (scamming those you sold it to) and you have agreed to do so.

I'm willing to remove the negative trust if you keep your word.  Everyone is entitled to a second chance. 

legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
March 22, 2015, 02:18:57 AM
#27
Well I think he should be given the opportunity to backup his claims. I don't think it is fair to go around saying that he is abusing his position on default trust until he has at least been given some time to either backup his claims that the law is being broken or correct/adjust the trust that he left.

You mean not fair, as in exactly like he does to people he leaves negative ratings for without even bothering to discuss it with them? Funny how VOD some how deserves leniency, yet he affords no such courtesy to others. VOD clearly has a long history of abusing his position on the default trust. This was not the first time he has behaved like this, nor will it be the last.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
March 22, 2015, 02:14:31 AM
#26
Like I said, I think we should give Vod the opportunity to respond and cite which law he thinks is being broken. I don't think the situation is so urgent that a conclusion needs to be made this minute

Seriously? You expect VOD to back up his accusations? When has he ever done this? VOD's authority is granted by being self assured of his superiority. He has no desire to justify his actions which are clearly above the heads of the mere mortals he places his ratings upon. All he has to do is make baseless accusations, leave a few negative ratings, and lemmings such as yourself will concur with his baseless declarations, because, you know, BURN THE WITCH!!1
Well I think he should be given the opportunity to backup his claims. I don't think it is fair to go around saying that he is abusing his position on default trust until he has at least been given some time to either backup his claims that the law is being broken or correct/adjust the trust that he left.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
March 22, 2015, 02:11:06 AM
#25
Like I said, I think we should give Vod the opportunity to respond and cite which law he thinks is being broken. I don't think the situation is so urgent that a conclusion needs to be made this minute

Seriously? You expect VOD to back up his accusations? When has he ever done this? VOD's authority is granted by being self assured of his superiority. He has no desire to justify his actions which are clearly above the heads of the mere mortals he places his ratings upon. All he has to do is make baseless accusations, leave a few negative ratings, and lemmings such as yourself will concur with his baseless declarations, because, you know, BURN THE WITCH!!1
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
March 22, 2015, 02:05:55 AM
#24
I'll stop selling keys immediately, but everyone should do that

Excellent.  Contact me after one month and I will remove the negative feedback.  Smiley

You can read the rest of it right? If not do so. Stop playing games.
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
March 22, 2015, 01:59:15 AM
#23
I'll stop selling keys immediately, but everyone should do that

Excellent.  Contact me after one month and I will remove the negative feedback.  Smiley
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
March 22, 2015, 01:57:32 AM
#22
I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know. I am just giving an example as to what laws might be broken if one was being broken. The key word in my statements about this is *might* - as in I am not 100% sure.

One reason why it might violate anti-piracy laws is that anyone can download most microsoft products, but cannot actually use them without the product keys. So if you use a stolen product key to unlock the software to use it then this would be the action that would be breaking the law. Now if the keys are really "stolen" or not is probably a different question

There is no maybe, this simply IS NOT A CRIME.
Copying software illegally = a crime
Selling legally obtained registration keys  = a violation of TOS and NOT a crime.

This very clearly does not fit the definition of software piracy because HE IS NOT PROVIDING ANY ACTUAL SOFTWARE! This whole criminal excuse is just some bit to justify VODs excessive, abusive, control freak extortionist behavior after the fact to save face and to attempt to manipulate staff into doing his dirty work for him.

I would be interested to see if Vod can quote what specific law that he is claiming to be broken by these people. A somewhat quick search of google does not find anything that would refute your point.

As I said in one of the other threads (I think it was another one - there are so many), I think Vod does have somewhat of a conflict of interest as he said that he is a Certified Microsoft Engineer
This discussion can go on forever really. And the only two suitable solutions as I see it. First, is give every MSDN reseller red trust and make their activity as illegal/scam. Second, is just let is go as we are letting go all other gray area activity here and no one had a problem with it so far.
Like I said, I think we should give Vod the opportunity to respond and cite which law he thinks is being broken. I don't think the situation is so urgent that a conclusion needs to be made this minute
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1005
★Nitrogensports.eu★
March 22, 2015, 01:53:43 AM
#21
I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know. I am just giving an example as to what laws might be broken if one was being broken. The key word in my statements about this is *might* - as in I am not 100% sure.

One reason why it might violate anti-piracy laws is that anyone can download most microsoft products, but cannot actually use them without the product keys. So if you use a stolen product key to unlock the software to use it then this would be the action that would be breaking the law. Now if the keys are really "stolen" or not is probably a different question

There is no maybe, this simply IS NOT A CRIME.
Copying software illegally = a crime
Selling legally obtained registration keys  = a violation of TOS and NOT a crime.

This very clearly does not fit the definition of software piracy because HE IS NOT PROVIDING ANY ACTUAL SOFTWARE! This whole criminal excuse is just some bit to justify VODs excessive, abusive, control freak extortionist behavior after the fact to save face and to attempt to manipulate staff into doing his dirty work for him.

I would be interested to see if Vod can quote what specific law that he is claiming to be broken by these people. A somewhat quick search of google does not find anything that would refute your point.

As I said in one of the other threads (I think it was another one - there are so many), I think Vod does have somewhat of a conflict of interest as he said that he is a Certified Microsoft Engineer
This discussion can go on forever really. And the only two suitable solutions as I see it. First, is give every MSDN reseller red trust and make their activity as illegal/scam. Second, is just let is go as we are letting go all other gray area activity here and no one had a problem with it so far.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
March 22, 2015, 01:50:22 AM
#20
I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know. I am just giving an example as to what laws might be broken if one was being broken. The key word in my statements about this is *might* - as in I am not 100% sure.

One reason why it might violate anti-piracy laws is that anyone can download most microsoft products, but cannot actually use them without the product keys. So if you use a stolen product key to unlock the software to use it then this would be the action that would be breaking the law. Now if the keys are really "stolen" or not is probably a different question

There is no maybe, this simply IS NOT A CRIME.
Copying software illegally = a crime
Selling legally obtained registration keys  = a violation of TOS and NOT a crime.

This very clearly does not fit the definition of software piracy because HE IS NOT PROVIDING ANY ACTUAL SOFTWARE! This whole criminal excuse is just some bit to justify VODs excessive, abusive, control freak extortionist behavior after the fact to save face and to attempt to manipulate staff into doing his dirty work for him.

I would be interested to see if Vod can quote what specific law that he is claiming to be broken by these people. A somewhat quick search of google does not find anything that would refute your point.

As I said in one of the other threads (I think it was another one - there are so many), I think Vod does have somewhat of a conflict of interest as he said that he is a Certified Microsoft Engineer

He's a nobody in this world. I bet he ain't no "Certified Microsoft Engineer" unless he photoshopped a certificate.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
March 22, 2015, 01:47:48 AM
#19
I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know. I am just giving an example as to what laws might be broken if one was being broken. The key word in my statements about this is *might* - as in I am not 100% sure.

One reason why it might violate anti-piracy laws is that anyone can download most microsoft products, but cannot actually use them without the product keys. So if you use a stolen product key to unlock the software to use it then this would be the action that would be breaking the law. Now if the keys are really "stolen" or not is probably a different question

There is no maybe, this simply IS NOT A CRIME.
Copying software illegally = a crime
Selling legally obtained registration keys  = a violation of TOS and NOT a crime.

This very clearly does not fit the definition of software piracy because HE IS NOT PROVIDING ANY ACTUAL SOFTWARE! This whole criminal excuse is just some bit to justify VODs excessive, abusive, control freak extortionist behavior after the fact to save face and to attempt to manipulate staff into doing his dirty work for him.

I would be interested to see if Vod can quote what specific law that he is claiming to be broken by these people. A somewhat quick search of google does not find anything that would refute your point.

As I said in one of the other threads (I think it was another one - there are so many), I think Vod does have somewhat of a conflict of interest as he said that he is a Certified Microsoft Engineer
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
March 22, 2015, 01:41:12 AM
#18
I can tell you this - arguing about minor detail like: is it alright to sell these keys because they are violating civil or privacy laws or breaking TOS
is not gonna lead you anywhere. We all know it is somewhat grey area. So either Vod  and every 'scambuster' here will become vigilant enough to mark EVERY MSDN seller and others who sell: HBO, NETFLIX, various service subscriptions, various other account sellers, premium services sellers and WHOLE other LOT of people who are dealing with this stuff right away or just stop and leave it be.

Unfortunately it is not a minor detail because criminal activity of any kind is not allowed on the forum. Violating TOS is NOT criminal, therefore it is a very important detail.

I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know. I am just giving an example as to what laws might be broken if one was being broken. The key word in my statements about this is *might* - as in I am not 100% sure.

One reason why it might violate anti-piracy laws is that anyone can download most microsoft products, but cannot actually use them without the product keys. So if you use a stolen product key to unlock the software to use it then this would be the action that would be breaking the law. Now if the keys are really "stolen" or not is probably a different question

There is no maybe, this simply IS NOT A CRIME.
Copying software illegally = a crime
Selling legally obtained registration keys  = a violation of TOS and NOT a crime.

This very clearly does not fit the definition of software piracy because HE IS NOT PROVIDING ANY ACTUAL SOFTWARE! This whole criminal excuse is just some bit to justify VODs excessive, abusive, control freak extortionist behavior after the fact to save face and to attempt to manipulate staff into doing his dirty work for him.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1005
★Nitrogensports.eu★
March 22, 2015, 01:39:13 AM
#17

I can tell you this - arguing about minor detail like: is it alright to sell these keys because they are violating civil or privacy laws or breaking TOS
is not gonna lead you anywhere. We all know it is somewhat grey area. So either Vod  and every 'scambuster' here will become vigilant enough to mark EVERY MSDN seller and others who sell: HBO, NETFLIX, various service subscriptions, various other account sellers, premium services sellers and WHOLE other LOT of people who are dealing with this stuff right away or just stop and leave it be.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
March 22, 2015, 01:32:39 AM
#16
Like I said, what these people might also be violating anti-piracy laws. However breaking the terms of the TOS is nothing more then breaking a contract which does not have any criminal implications, only civil
How is the key seller violating anti-piracy laws? Is he offering the actual software... no...just the legally obtained keys. So again we are left with the TOS violation, which is at most a CIVIL violation.
I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know. I am just giving an example as to what laws might be broken if one was being broken. The key word in my statements about this is *might* - as in I am not 100% sure.

One reason why it might violate anti-piracy laws is that anyone can download most microsoft products, but cannot actually use them without the product keys. So if you use a stolen product key to unlock the software to use it then this would be the action that would be breaking the law. Now if the keys are really "stolen" or not is probably a different question
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
March 22, 2015, 01:24:58 AM
#15
Like I said, what these people might also be violating anti-piracy laws. However breaking the terms of the TOS is nothing more then breaking a contract which does not have any criminal implications, only civil
[/quote]How is the key seller violating anti-piracy laws? Is he offering the actual software... no...just the legally obtained keys. So again we are left with the TOS violation, which is at most a CIVIL violation.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
March 22, 2015, 01:22:40 AM
#14
The TOS is a contract between Microsoft and the person who is using the key. Violating the TOS of something, alone is not a crime. Although what the OP is doing may be against federal anti-piracy laws (I am really not sure on this)

This might be different case but I think this is appropriate.

Example of how your tips are used.

 
F.B.I. and Chinese Seize $500 Million of Counterfeit Software

A multi-year investigation by Chinese police investigators and the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation led to the dismantling of a piracy ring responsible for pirating and distributing up to $2 billion of software. The two-year investigation led to the demise of two criminal organizations - located in Shanghai and Shenzhen - and included up to 25 arrests according to officials from both nations. Microsoft, in gathering evidence it later handed over to the F.B.I. and to Chinese authorities, said more than 1,000 people had notified the company and sent in counterfeit discs. The consumers who sent in the pirated discs were apparently unaware they had purchased illegal software until a notification popped up on their screens. The F.B.I. said that a joint effort with the Chinese authorities had led to the seizing of more than $500 million worth of counterfeit Microsoft and Symantec software that was being made in China and distributed worldwide.

The arrests, according to industry executives, represented the most significant crackdown on software piracy. In the last couple of weeks, the operation led to the seizing by the Chinese government of 290,000 counterfeit discs and certificates of authenticity. The F.B.I. said that Chinese officials had seized more than 47,000 counterfeit Microsoft discs.
Like I said, what these people might also be violating anti-piracy laws. However breaking the terms of the TOS is nothing more then breaking a contract which does not have any criminal implications, only civil
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
March 22, 2015, 01:21:52 AM
#13
Violating the TOS of something, alone is not a crime. Although what the OP is doing may be against federal anti-piracy laws (I am really not sure on this)

It is not a crime, but I am sure he will refer to a recently reinterpreted piece of legislation crafted in the 80's under which law enforcement are attempting to frame violations of TOS agreements as criminal acts. It never was a crime, but they would like it to be. Close doesn't count in law. It is still not a crime.

The (non-applicable) law I am sure he is attempting to evoke: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2011/09/16/no-faking-your-name-on-facebook-will-not-be-a-felony/
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 509
I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!
March 22, 2015, 01:20:05 AM
#12
At worst it is a violation of contract law, which would be a CIVIL case. It is however NOT a violation of CRIMINAL law, so there is a very big difference. Violations of CRIMINAL LAW are not allowed on the forum. This is what VOD was disingenuously trying to frame this as so he could manipulate staff into acting on his extortion for him.

I understand. Thank you for telling! But did you check Vod's trust feedback? It does have a relevant point but the second last line of the negative feedback may not be approved.

The bottom line, if you want to become a reseller, you need to become a Microsoft Partner who resells the entire package, not just product keys.
 =snip=
you bought an MSDN licensed key, which carries up to 10 activations unlike full packaged retail licenses which only carry 1 activation. The person who sold it to you probably sold it to 10 other persons. Somewhere along the way, one of those persons might have installed it on a second system, activated it, because it went past 10 activation threshold, Microsoft detected it that it was being abused and blocked the key from further use.
=snip=

Edit:

The TOS is a contract between Microsoft and the person who is using the key. Violating the TOS of something, alone is not a crime. Although what the OP is doing may be against federal anti-piracy laws (I am really not sure on this)

This might be different case but I think this is appropriate.

Example of how your tips are used.

 
F.B.I. and Chinese Seize $500 Million of Counterfeit Software

A multi-year investigation by Chinese police investigators and the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation led to the dismantling of a piracy ring responsible for pirating and distributing up to $2 billion of software. The two-year investigation led to the demise of two criminal organizations - located in Shanghai and Shenzhen - and included up to 25 arrests according to officials from both nations. Microsoft, in gathering evidence it later handed over to the F.B.I. and to Chinese authorities, said more than 1,000 people had notified the company and sent in counterfeit discs. The consumers who sent in the pirated discs were apparently unaware they had purchased illegal software until a notification popped up on their screens. The F.B.I. said that a joint effort with the Chinese authorities had led to the seizing of more than $500 million worth of counterfeit Microsoft and Symantec software that was being made in China and distributed worldwide.

The arrests, according to industry executives, represented the most significant crackdown on software piracy. In the last couple of weeks, the operation led to the seizing by the Chinese government of 290,000 counterfeit discs and certificates of authenticity. The F.B.I. said that Chinese officials had seized more than 47,000 counterfeit Microsoft discs.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
March 22, 2015, 01:15:26 AM
#11
Again this proves it is a violation of the terms of service, NOT criminal activity like VOD has purported in order to attempt to trump up the accusation to the point of getting staff involved. This is just more of the same from VOD, defining his own value by how many people he can harass over non-incidents.

So "violation of TOS" isn't chargeable under the law". Huh

By the way, check Vod's trust feedback and the third paragraph in 1st of mine. See whether you can fin Vod is right or wrong about it. Smiley
The TOS is a contract between Microsoft and the person who is using the key. Violating the TOS of something, alone is not a crime. Although what the OP is doing may be against federal anti-piracy laws (I am really not sure on this)
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
March 22, 2015, 01:10:22 AM
#10
Again this proves it is a violation of the terms of service, NOT criminal activity like VOD has purported in order to attempt to trump up the accusation to the point of getting staff involved. This is just more of the same from VOD, defining his own value by how many people he can harass over non-incidents.

So "violation of TOS" isn't chargeable under the law". Huh

By the way, check Vod's trust feedback and the third paragraph in 1st of mine. See whether you can fin Vod is right or wrong about it. Smiley

At worst it is a violation of contract law, which would be a CIVIL case. It is however NOT a violation of CRIMINAL law, so there is a very big difference. Violations of CRIMINAL LAW are not allowed on the forum. This is what VOD was disingenuously trying to frame this as so he could manipulate staff into acting on his extortion for him.
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