Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 15140. (Read 26712362 times)

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 512
Oh it is coming. And when it comes we will light up the world.

Even then I am sure that all the bigblocker trolls will remain here. If having their own fork did not satisfy them nothing will -except of course destroying bitcoin.

true. their real goal.

They would then continue posting on bitcoinisnowdeadtalk.org on how successful big blocks were.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
Oh it is coming. And when it comes we will light up the world.

Even then I am sure that all the bigblocker trolls will remain here. If having their own fork did not satisfy them nothing will -except of course destroying bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 254
That may be so, but your pelvis will always belong to us.

PS. Can I call dibs on that corduroy pillow?

What a memory. It's going to cost rather a lot to haul it to you but I'll leave the shipping in my will. Or medical file.

I've been glued to this wall for almost 4 years. For better and/or worse. Smiley

You may even receive a surprise body part for a loved one.

For better then. Splendid!
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 3056
Welt Am Draht
That may be so, but your pelvis will always belong to us.

PS. Can I call dibs on that corduroy pillow?

What a memory. It's going to cost rather a lot to haul it to you but I'll leave the shipping in my will. Or medical file.

I've been glued to this wall for almost 4 years. For better and/or worse. Smiley

You may even receive a surprise body part for a loved one.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 254
That may be so, but your pelvis will always belong to us.

PS. Can I call dibs on that corduroy pillow?

What a memory. It's going to cost rather a lot to haul it to you but I'll leave the shipping in my will. Or medical file.

I've been glued to this wall for almost 4 years. For better and/or worse. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 3056
Welt Am Draht
That may be so, but your pelvis will always belong to us.

PS. Can I call dibs on that corduroy pillow?

What a memory. It's going to cost rather a lot to haul it to you but I'll leave the shipping in my will. Or medical file.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 254
I doubt anyone will want his organs. They want young peoples organs for transplants. Old peoples are worn out and won't last as long, and I doubt gentlemand is a spotty school kid.

Shocking. I am a sprightly 40something with plenty of lead left in my pencil. Apart from my lungs, heart, corneas, skin, bowels and a few other things many people would be ecstatic to have my body parts floating around inside them.

That may be so, but your pelvis will always belong to us.

PS. Can I call dibs on that corduroy pillow?
sr. member
Activity: 443
Merit: 260
Meanwhile in Bitcoin-price-land

17k broken again.

850 BTC left for 18k @Bitstamp
1150 BTC left for 19k
1850 BTC left for 20k

(though this shifts obviously once the price rises)

Cheesy

EDIT: 100 BTC sellwall at 17,1k just eaten in 30 seconds.
legendary
Activity: 2744
Merit: 13647
BTC + Crossfit, living life.

Breaking 24777$ prediction game      FINAL LIST       

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18/12/2021 luckygenough56

UPDATE     AND GOOD LUCK
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1278
BIG BLOCKER nutjobs REEEEEEEEE!
Suggest a better (implementable in the real world) alternative for getting more throughput. Any of you.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

Just replace Safety with Throughput.

Be patient, people! The scaling problem will be solved, and it will be solved in the right way, and for the long term. Nobody wants a temporary "patch" that requires a hard fork and compromises decentralization. When there are valid reasons to increase the block size, it will be done.
Except that's not even an analogy, that's just replacing one word with another in an unrelated sentence.

Also define "valid reason". We dislike sophism around here.

It's not a sophism. The key word here is "liberty". Are you willing to compromise Bitcoin's decentralization by HARD-FORKING it to a bigger block size, so that you can buy your coffee at Starbucks and keep a permanent record of it in the blockchain? Bitcoin's enemies will still exist, and will still spam the network. Then what? Increase the block size even more, to accumulate more garbage? Another hard fork? Where does it end?

What's needed is a solution that is inherently scalable by design, such as the Lightning Network (or better ones that will surely come). It just doesn't make sense to do a hard fork that merely alleviates the problem temporarily while compromising decentralization, when a much more elegant solution does exist, has already been tested and is almost ready to implement. After LN is implemented, there may be a need for a moderate increase in block size. That's the "valid reason" you are asking. A reason that comes from scientific method, not from a thoughtless "bigger is better" mentality.

The blockchain simply cannot hold every little insignificant transaction that is ever made. It is a waste of resources and totally inefficient. Back in the days when transaction volume was low/moderate, this could be tolerated. Not anymore. Have you kept every little note you've ever made in every little piece of paper since you were born? Do you keep all the shopping lists you make every time you go to the supermarket in a log book for future reference? Should every blackboard on every classroom be made to permanently preserve everything that's written on it?

There has to be a garbage collection mechanism in Bitcoin. We've reached a point where the garbage has become too much for the network to keep storing. The solution is NOT to make more room for even more garbage, but to find a way to destroy them and keep them out of the network. That's what LN does. Thousands of "coffee-sized" transactions aggregated to a single transaction that only takes a small fraction of a block instead of flooding the network. No loss of significance of information, because such information is not significant. No hard fork needed! Want to do an important transaction on-chain? You can, just like today. And you will pay much less fees than today, because LN will free the network from all those millions of petty cash transactions that would otherwise flood it.

Sorry for the long post. It just infuriates me when people fail to see the moon and keep staring at the finger pointing to it...
I have yet to see anyone explain how increasing the blocksize increases centralization. It seems to be some idea that just took hold and that everyone believes in, because they believe in it.

And it doesn't end. There will always be a need for improvements because there will always be competitors ready to take over if we stagnate. stagnation is death.

Lightning requires segwit. Which is to say, it will be as worthless as segwit is.

When a small group can change the narrative and code, it can then happen anytime - centralize to gain control

1) Find a talking point that is critical to the object in question
2) Promote Fear
3) Provide alternative
4) Go ahead with alternative
5) All the while more fear

blocksize debate has been going on for 7 years
What are you trying to address here?
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1061
Smile
BIG BLOCKER nutjobs REEEEEEEEE!
Suggest a better (implementable in the real world) alternative for getting more throughput. Any of you.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

Just replace Safety with Throughput.

Be patient, people! The scaling problem will be solved, and it will be solved in the right way, and for the long term. Nobody wants a temporary "patch" that requires a hard fork and compromises decentralization. When there are valid reasons to increase the block size, it will be done.
Except that's not even an analogy, that's just replacing one word with another in an unrelated sentence.

Also define "valid reason". We dislike sophism around here.

It's not a sophism. The key word here is "liberty". Are you willing to compromise Bitcoin's decentralization by HARD-FORKING it to a bigger block size, so that you can buy your coffee at Starbucks and keep a permanent record of it in the blockchain? Bitcoin's enemies will still exist, and will still spam the network. Then what? Increase the block size even more, to accumulate more garbage? Another hard fork? Where does it end?

What's needed is a solution that is inherently scalable by design, such as the Lightning Network (or better ones that will surely come). It just doesn't make sense to do a hard fork that merely alleviates the problem temporarily while compromising decentralization, when a much more elegant solution does exist, has already been tested and is almost ready to implement. After LN is implemented, there may be a need for a moderate increase in block size. That's the "valid reason" you are asking. A reason that comes from scientific method, not from a thoughtless "bigger is better" mentality.

The blockchain simply cannot hold every little insignificant transaction that is ever made. It is a waste of resources and totally inefficient. Back in the days when transaction volume was low/moderate, this could be tolerated. Not anymore. Have you kept every little note you've ever made in every little piece of paper since you were born? Do you keep all the shopping lists you make every time you go to the supermarket in a log book for future reference? Should every blackboard on every classroom be made to permanently preserve everything that's written on it?

There has to be a garbage collection mechanism in Bitcoin. We've reached a point where the garbage has become too much for the network to keep storing. The solution is NOT to make more room for even more garbage, but to find a way to destroy them and keep them out of the network. That's what LN does. Thousands of "coffee-sized" transactions aggregated to a single transaction that only takes a small fraction of a block instead of flooding the network. No loss of significance of information, because such information is not significant. No hard fork needed! Want to do an important transaction on-chain? You can, just like today. And you will pay much less fees than today, because LN will free the network from all those millions of petty cash transactions that would otherwise flood it.

Sorry for the long post. It just infuriates me when people fail to see the moon and keep staring at the finger pointing to it...
I have yet to see anyone explain how increasing the blocksize increases centralization. It seems to be some idea that just took hold and that everyone believes in, because they believe in it.

And it doesn't end. There will always be a need for improvements because there will always be competitors ready to take over if we stagnate. stagnation is death.

Lightning requires segwit. Which is to say, it will be as worthless as segwit is.

When a small group can change the narrative and code, it can then happen anytime - centralize to gain control

1) Find a talking point that is critical to the object in question
2) Promote Fear
3) Provide alternative
4) Go ahead with alternative
5) All the while more fear

blocksize debate has been going on for 7 years




same tool is used to legalize

spying on you
monitor money transactions
mandatory vaccines
etc etc etc

nearly everything you do there is a law because of fear

classic socialism


it is not the better alternative that is the narrative

the fear is the narrative (busted)




legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
... so you can get a share of them by contributing your idle CPU time.
[...]
Oh! Stupid Satoshi, you were so wrong.

When GPUs came out by 2011, ... Yes.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1278
BIG BLOCKER nutjobs REEEEEEEEE!
Suggest a better (implementable in the real world) alternative for getting more throughput. Any of you.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

Just replace Safety with Throughput.

Be patient, people! The scaling problem will be solved, and it will be solved in the right way, and for the long term. Nobody wants a temporary "patch" that requires a hard fork and compromises decentralization. When there are valid reasons to increase the block size, it will be done.
Except that's not even an analogy, that's just replacing one word with another in an unrelated sentence.

Also define "valid reason". We dislike sophism around here.

It's not a sophism. The key word here is "liberty". Are you willing to compromise Bitcoin's decentralization by HARD-FORKING it to a bigger block size, so that you can buy your coffee at Starbucks and keep a permanent record of it in the blockchain? Bitcoin's enemies will still exist, and will still spam the network. Then what? Increase the block size even more, to accumulate more garbage? Another hard fork? Where does it end?

What's needed is a solution that is inherently scalable by design, such as the Lightning Network (or better ones that will surely come). It just doesn't make sense to do a hard fork that merely alleviates the problem temporarily while compromising decentralization, when a much more elegant solution does exist, has already been tested and is almost ready to implement. After LN is implemented, there may be a need for a moderate increase in block size. That's the "valid reason" you are asking. A reason that comes from scientific method, not from a thoughtless "bigger is better" mentality.

The blockchain simply cannot hold every little insignificant transaction that is ever made. It is a waste of resources and totally inefficient. Back in the days when transaction volume was low/moderate, this could be tolerated. Not anymore. Have you kept every little note you've ever made in every little piece of paper since you were born? Do you keep all the shopping lists you make every time you go to the supermarket in a log book for future reference? Should every blackboard on every classroom be made to permanently preserve everything that's written on it?

There has to be a garbage collection mechanism in Bitcoin. We've reached a point where the garbage has become too much for the network to keep storing. The solution is NOT to make more room for even more garbage, but to find a way to destroy them and keep them out of the network. That's what LN does. Thousands of "coffee-sized" transactions aggregated to a single transaction that only takes a small fraction of a block instead of flooding the network. No loss of significance of information, because such information is not significant. No hard fork needed! Want to do an important transaction on-chain? You can, just like today. And you will pay much less fees than today, because LN will free the network from all those millions of petty cash transactions that would otherwise flood it.

Sorry for the long post. It just infuriates me when people fail to see the moon and keep staring at the finger pointing to it...
I have yet to see anyone explain how increasing the blocksize increases centralization. It seems to be some idea that just took hold and that everyone believes in, because they believe in it.

And it doesn't end. There will always be a need for improvements because there will always be competitors ready to take over if we stagnate. stagnation is death.

Lightning requires segwit. Which is to say, it will be as worthless as segwit is.
full member
Activity: 294
Merit: 125
Alea iacta est
Can your family say no after you are dead?

Dunno. Don't care. I'll be kinda dead. They can make Christmas decorations out of a bucket of my gonads for all I care.
So you... don't care how your family feels about it. Alright.

I doubt anyone will want his organs. They want young peoples organs for transplants. Old peoples are worn out and won't last as long, and I doubt gentlemand is a spotty school kid.

Well if you are unfortunate enough to be in a life threatening situation to actually be in the need of donor organs, you may not even have a choice. Atleast where I come from there are hundreds of people on waiting lists.


Oh it is coming. And when it comes we will light up the world.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 4839
Addicted to HoDLing!
BIG BLOCKER nutjobs REEEEEEEEE!
Suggest a better (implementable in the real world) alternative for getting more throughput. Any of you.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

Just replace Safety with Throughput.

Be patient, people! The scaling problem will be solved, and it will be solved in the right way, and for the long term. Nobody wants a temporary "patch" that requires a hard fork and compromises decentralization. When there are valid reasons to increase the block size, it will be done.
Except that's not even an analogy, that's just replacing one word with another in an unrelated sentence.

Also define "valid reason". We dislike sophism around here.

It's not a sophism. The key word here is "liberty". Are you willing to compromise Bitcoin's decentralization by HARD-FORKING it to a bigger block size, so that you can buy your coffee at Starbucks and keep a permanent record of it in the blockchain? Bitcoin's enemies will still exist, and will still spam the network. Then what? Increase the block size even more, to accumulate more garbage? Another hard fork? Where does it end?

What's needed is a solution that is inherently scalable by design, such as the Lightning Network (or better ones that will surely come). It just doesn't make sense to do a hard fork that merely alleviates the problem temporarily while compromising decentralization, when a much more elegant solution does exist, has already been tested and is almost ready to implement. After LN is implemented, there may be a need for a moderate increase in block size. That's the "valid reason" you are asking. A reason that comes from scientific method, not from a thoughtless "bigger is better" mentality.

The blockchain simply cannot hold every little insignificant transaction that is ever made. It is a waste of resources and totally inefficient. Back in the days when transaction volume was low/moderate, this could be tolerated. Not anymore. Have you kept every little note you've ever made in every little piece of paper since you were born? Do you keep all the shopping lists you make every time you go to the supermarket in a log book for future reference? Should every blackboard on every classroom be made to permanently preserve everything that's written on it?

There has to be a garbage collection mechanism in Bitcoin. We've reached a point where the garbage has become too much for the network to keep storing. The solution is NOT to make more room for even more garbage, but to find a way to destroy them and keep them out of the network. That's what LN does. Thousands of "coffee-sized" transactions aggregated to a single transaction that only takes a small fraction of a block instead of flooding the network. No loss of significance of information, because such information is not significant. No hard fork needed! Want to do an important transaction on-chain? You can, just like today. And you will pay much less fees than today, because LN will free the network from all those millions of petty cash transactions that would otherwise flood it.

Sorry for the long post. It just infuriates me when people fail to see the moon and keep staring at the finger pointing to it...
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 3056
Welt Am Draht
I doubt anyone will want his organs. They want young peoples organs for transplants. Old peoples are worn out and won't last as long, and I doubt gentlemand is a spotty school kid.

Shocking. I am a sprightly 40something with plenty of lead left in my pencil. Apart from my lungs, heart, corneas, skin, bowels and a few other things many people would be ecstatic to have my body parts floating around inside them.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1278
Am I understanding it correctly that LN only works with segwit?

Why would it work only with segwit? I see no technical reason, but segwit adoption would certainly help LN to make opening/closing LN channels cheaper.

LN as it is now depends on transaction malleability being fixed. That's why it was designed with segwit as a prerequisite. So yes, Ibian, you are correct as far as the real current Lightning Network goes.
Well. Shit.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 251
Can your family say no after you are dead?

Dunno. Don't care. I'll be kinda dead. They can make Christmas decorations out of a bucket of my gonads for all I care.
So you... don't care how your family feels about it. Alright.

I doubt anyone will want his organs. They want young peoples organs for transplants. Old peoples are worn out and won't last as long, and I doubt gentlemand is a spotty school kid.
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 3038
Am I understanding it correctly that LN only works with segwit?

Why would it work only with segwit? I see no technical reason, but segwit adoption would certainly help LN to make opening/closing LN channels cheaper.

LN as it is now depends on transaction malleability being fixed. That's why it was designed with segwit as a prerequisite. So yes, Ibian, you are correct as far as the real current Lightning Network goes.
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