Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 1716. (Read 26716434 times)
September 08, 2023, 05:01:22 PM
September 08, 2023, 04:19:56 PM
[edited out]
Some thoughts:If nobody can access your seed your won't need any passphrase, if the seed was created with sufficient entropy ...which should always be questionable though!
Also, you are right, even a short passphrase will leave anyone who gets your seed in doubt if there even is a hidden passphrase wallet and if it makes sense to put in the work to
A 128 bits phrase can secure your seed with the same security the seed secures your BTC, if that's what you want/need for ease of mind.
Nice thing: totally independent from all that passphrase science is the PIN which can secure your Trezor 100% against seed extraction from the open source chip. If the PIN strong enough your device will be worthless to any attacker.
From this discussion, I think that I am starting to understand some of the ideas more also, and truely if you hafve to use a 37 or 39+ character pin, then holy fucking shit, you are not going to be using that wallet very often because Trezor frequently requires you to enter in the pin when you are doing various transactions and to confirm transactions.. and maybe it is just to wake up after a few minutes of inactivity and maybe some of those settings could be tweaked in order to not require the 37-39+ character pin every single time.. ..
I don't know the exact answer, even though I know what I do, and from time to time, I also tweak what I do order to try out new things.. and surely we can do what vapourminer suggested which then allows for various seed phrases to be entered each time we are going to use the trezor and maybe if we have a few days of trezor work we conduct a variety of transactions prior to deleting the seed from the device.. which does seem like a bit of extra work, too.. but maybe not a bad compromise..
I think that I had mentioned in another thread that I had some border crossing experiences in which I would not have the seed on my trezor but a different seed, so I am not totally opposed to the practice of carrying a trezor with either a dummy seed or no seed.. but then at some point, i had started to feel less comfortable with that particular seed, so I ended up switching seeds (creating a new wallet).
Another thing is that through the years, many of us might have old wallets and we may or may not be able to access them anymore, but there still could be questions about the extent of their value and even concerns that maybe some value could end up getting sent to them or maybe some historical fork could be extracted...so I am not even sure how to keep track of old wallets and old addresses, even though I have read some posts on the topic too.. with some members entering old wallet addresses into a bitcoin tracker (or watcher) and those seem a bit potentially dangerous practices too.. to be discovered to be watching certain bitcoin wallets/addresses might create inferences that you either own them or had owned them at one time... and then to have them in one place to be connected could be problematic too.. and some of us have probably already made some of those kinds of mistakes in terms of how we are managing our addresses.
September 08, 2023, 04:01:23 PM
September 08, 2023, 04:00:07 PM
So not bragging about your holdings is another easy security layer.
Part of the reason why 0.63 BTC will have to be downgraded, at some point.
@AlcoHoDL, Trezor vulnerability is something that has been known for years, there was a lot of discussion about it in the technical discussion boards, but luckily every user can protect himself by setting a passphrase, and there is also another option, which is the use of an SD card.
When it comes to passphrase, the conclusion is that they should be at least 37 characters long :
For those who are interested in how to protect themselves additionally with the help of an SD card :
Trezor T (2.3.0) and Trezor One (1.9.0) firmware update
Also, one thing I forgot is that it is possible to set a so-called fake PIN that can be left as a bait, and if it is entered, all data from the hardware wallet will be deleted.
A 128 bits PIN should do the trick as well, as it is used to encrypt the seed on the chip.When it comes to passphrase, the conclusion is that they should be at least 37 characters long :
A physical access to a Trezor One, Trezor T, Keepkey, or B-wallet allows an attacker to extract the 12/24-words within a few minutes using a low-cost setup (~100$), with a very high reproducibility (we had 100% success). We finally proved it can be fully automated allowing anyone to use it in case someone would sell the Extraktor box (similar to old Playstation hacks). This attack can not be fixed. The only mitigation is to use a strong passphrase: we recommend 37 random characters to maintain the same level of security.
For those who are interested in how to protect themselves additionally with the help of an SD card :
Trezor T (2.3.0) and Trezor One (1.9.0) firmware update
Also, one thing I forgot is that it is possible to set a so-called fake PIN that can be left as a bait, and if it is entered, all data from the hardware wallet will be deleted.
Quote from: https://blog.trezor.io/increase-your-security-with-the-latest-trezor-updates-6ed984fb5c18
The Wipe Code
Another exciting new feature is the wipe code that acts as a “self-destruct PIN” that erases your Trezor if someone tries to unlock your device without your consent. If the wipe code is entered into any PIN entry dialog, then all private data will be immediately erased from your Trezor and the device will be reset to factory defaults. You can write the wipe code somewhere near your Trezor as a decoy PIN, so if someone tries to unlock the device without your consent, they will cause it to erase itself. You can also use the wipe code to reset your Trezor without using a host device. This update can be enabled on both Trezor models.
Another exciting new feature is the wipe code that acts as a “self-destruct PIN” that erases your Trezor if someone tries to unlock your device without your consent. If the wipe code is entered into any PIN entry dialog, then all private data will be immediately erased from your Trezor and the device will be reset to factory defaults. You can write the wipe code somewhere near your Trezor as a decoy PIN, so if someone tries to unlock the device without your consent, they will cause it to erase itself. You can also use the wipe code to reset your Trezor without using a host device. This update can be enabled on both Trezor models.
(Please let me know if you think I'm wrong)
I still have problems with the need for 37 random characters for the 25th word.. and let's say if someone just has 10-15 somewhat random characters, then how long is it going to take to break into the Trezor?
Remember each time that we log into the device and sometimes we might get disconnected and have to log in again, it can take quite a bit of time to be logging in these 37 random characters each time...
I am not going to say how many digits that I actually use, and I also am not going to give any hints either... and it is bad enough that I said that I use such a device, in theory.
By the way, we have a long term member in these here parts that swears by that piece of crap, aka Ledger, and surely there are probably quite a few members who may or may not be in the closest about their use (and apparent belief) in the Ledger crap.
~snip~
A 128 bits PIN should do the trick as well, as it is used to encrypt the seed on the chip.
(Please let me know if you think I'm wrong)
You are definitely right, considering that I am not a user of Trezor, I was not even aware that in 2021 they increased the maximum PIN length to even 50 digits, and they say that 39 digits is quite enough to protect the seed from hacking. It's actually a good thing for those who for some reason don't want to use a passphrase or maybe don't even know such an option exists - although it's an option they always recommend to advanced users. A 128 bits PIN should do the trick as well, as it is used to encrypt the seed on the chip.
(Please let me know if you think I'm wrong)
Everyone should use the passphrase.. and it should not be considered advanced... and maybe using 37 random characters might be considered advanced.
But I still wonder if a relatively short password might just be considered a less advance version. and is better than no password at all.. so why do we have to have a need to overly complicate matters by suggesting so much complication, when surely it must add quite a bit of difficulty to just have a shorter 25th word in there (or 13th word seems to be more standard) rather than no extra word (passphrase) at all.
In other words, why let the perfect be the enemy of the good?
We have a lot of cases where users wonder why they don't see anything on their balance even though they have the correct seed, and then it turns out that they actually added an extra password without which the seed creates a completely new set of addresses.
It might be a bit impractical to enter a PIN that's 39+ digits long, but for the average user it's probably easier than setting a passphrase.
It might be a bit impractical to enter a PIN that's 39+ digits long, but for the average user it's probably easier than setting a passphrase.
Oh I see that the 39+ pin is different from the extra word...and that 39 character pin would resolve the other issue regarding a hacker getting ahold of the physical device and breaking into it.. so that still leaves the issue of the 13th or 25th word actually not needing to be very complicated, and a 8-15 character passphrase may well make it quite difficult to get at the wallet because they would first need to know (or suspect) that such a wallet (or extra portal to a wallet) actually exists in connection with the 12 or 24 word seed that was extracted from the device.
Some thoughts:
If nobody can access your seed your won't need any passphrase, if the seed was created with sufficient entropy ...which should always be questionable though!
Also, you are right, even a short passphrase will leave anyone who gets your seed in doubt if there even is a hidden passphrase wallet and if it makes sense to put in the work to
A 128 bits phrase can secure your seed with the same security the seed secures your BTC, if that's what you want/need for ease of mind.
Nice thing: totally independent from all that passphrase science is the PIN which can secure your Trezor 100% against seed extraction from the open source chip. If the PIN is strong enough, your device will be worthless to any attacker.
September 08, 2023, 03:59:40 PM
Bljatcoin is actualy on a downward spiral in both Usage,Reputation and Community. Actualy beyond repair..
September 08, 2023, 03:39:40 PM
I see you suckers are still here hoping for a miracle. It’s been a while now and the price still gets rejected at 30k or just a little over. I wonder when the big flush to 10k will come? I suggest you all dump your bitcorns because things are going to get a lot worse. Buy silver, it’s far superior, precious metals will make a big comeback in the coming years. Bitcoin will never see another all time high, it was fun while it lasted. Sell everything or lose everything. I’m trying to help you all and warn you. I don’t like seeing people end up broke. Please take heed, you are running out of time to sell in the $20,000’s.
...
...
Didn't know that roach and proudhon had offspring together
Nobody will ever beat NotLambChop, she (apparently female) was relentless. I remember her spamming full pages of old men in, shall we say, compromising positions. A truly twisted, weird woman, pretty intelligent which made it all the more fucked up.
Trolls come and go but bitcoin continues to prove them all wrong. The genuine NOCOINER one’s (proudhon must be a whale…..surely) must he devastated to witness what a beast bitcoin is and continues to be.
They will all disappear in 2024 and 2025. We’ll probably get a visit from proudhon at some point as the next bear market starts in 2026 and then the cycle starts again. We’ll all be here cheerleading, posting memes, rockets and green dildos, hot girls etc regardless of the price.
September 08, 2023, 03:31:24 PM
I see you suckers are still here hoping for a miracle. It’s been a while now and the price still gets rejected at 30k or just a little over. I wonder when the big flush to 10k will come? I suggest you all dump your bitcorns because things are going to get a lot worse. Buy silver, it’s far superior, precious metals will make a big comeback in the coming years. Bitcoin will never see another all time high, it was fun while it lasted. Sell everything or lose everything. I’m trying to help you all and warn you. I don’t like seeing people end up broke. Please take heed, you are running out of time to sell in the $20,000’s.
...
...
Didn't know that roach and proudhon had offspring together
September 08, 2023, 03:23:11 PM
This is a Legendary Person ! What a true and pure Person .. ☺️❤️
https://youtu.be/Ir3eJ1t13fk?si=WAO9L26eSpbiwrKv
God bless !
https://youtu.be/Ir3eJ1t13fk?si=WAO9L26eSpbiwrKv
God bless !
How are you thinking that bitcoin fits (or would fit) into his life?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Current Blajtcoin shouldnt be anywhere near to this pure Person. He would probably say : Keep your Trash
September 08, 2023, 03:12:17 PM
This is a Legendary Person ! What a true and pure Person .. ☺️❤️
https://youtu.be/Ir3eJ1t13fk?si=WAO9L26eSpbiwrKv
God bless !
https://youtu.be/Ir3eJ1t13fk?si=WAO9L26eSpbiwrKv
God bless !
How are you thinking that bitcoin fits (or would fit) into his life?
Anyone?
Anyone?
September 08, 2023, 03:01:18 PM
September 08, 2023, 02:59:39 PM
Poison oak and poison ivy suck.
First time ever catching it, not interested in trying sumac or oak variants.
I really screwed up when first washing it by using hot water and spreading it to my other arm and hand. Doh
I didn't really have any respect for it, being immune my entire life.
But it is going away pretty fast now that I am treating it correctly and not spreading it anymore lol.
I even tossed the gloves I used to pull it up with which I would not have even thought of a few days ago. Doh
September 08, 2023, 02:53:23 PM
Found it!
I've been growing black berries along my deck for awhile and the shit was mixed in and I fixed the lattice the other day without even noticing it.
I ran the Winnie into the lattice (actually did a domino effect into it) so finally got around to fixing it the other day.
Either way Fuck with the best and die like the rest!
That plant is History.
Don't mention the deck needs a new staining, I did it last fucking year and that home Depot SHIT IS GARBAGE!
That looks like poison oak.
Funny thing is The green leaves were all mixed in with the black berry leaves (They look similar) and the ones with the red were hidden around the base around the corner of the deck. almost like it was trying to blend in.
I've been growing black berries along my deck for awhile and the shit was mixed in and I fixed the lattice the other day without even noticing it.
I ran the Winnie into the lattice (actually did a domino effect into it) so finally got around to fixing it the other day.
Either way Fuck with the best and die like the rest!
That plant is History.
Don't mention the deck needs a new staining, I did it last fucking year and that home Depot SHIT IS GARBAGE!
That looks like poison oak.
Funny thing is The green leaves were all mixed in with the black berry leaves (They look similar) and the ones with the red were hidden around the base around the corner of the deck. almost like it was trying to blend in.
Poison oak and poison ivy suck.
September 08, 2023, 02:21:42 PM
This is a Legendary Person ! What a true and pure Person .. ☺️❤️
https://youtu.be/Ir3eJ1t13fk?si=WAO9L26eSpbiwrKv
God bless !
https://youtu.be/Ir3eJ1t13fk?si=WAO9L26eSpbiwrKv
God bless !
September 08, 2023, 02:01:19 PM
September 08, 2023, 01:58:19 PM
Found it!
I've been growing black berries along my deck for awhile and the shit was mixed in and I fixed the lattice the other day without even noticing it.
I ran the Winnie into the lattice (actually did a domino effect into it) so finally got around to fixing it the other day.
Either way Fuck with the best and die like the rest!
That plant is History.
Don't mention the deck needs a new staining, I did it last fucking year and that home Depot SHIT IS GARBAGE!
That looks like poison oak.
Funny thing is The green leaves were all mixed in with the black berry leaves (They look similar) and the ones with the red were hidden around the base around the corner of the deck. almost like it was trying to blend in.
I've been growing black berries along my deck for awhile and the shit was mixed in and I fixed the lattice the other day without even noticing it.
I ran the Winnie into the lattice (actually did a domino effect into it) so finally got around to fixing it the other day.
Either way Fuck with the best and die like the rest!
That plant is History.
Don't mention the deck needs a new staining, I did it last fucking year and that home Depot SHIT IS GARBAGE!
That looks like poison oak.
Funny thing is The green leaves were all mixed in with the black berry leaves (They look similar) and the ones with the red were hidden around the base around the corner of the deck. almost like it was trying to blend in.
September 08, 2023, 01:01:22 PM
September 08, 2023, 12:01:19 PM
September 08, 2023, 11:32:01 AM
Maybe, I have finally cracked the #Bitcoin code.
The November 28th Cycles Theory has held the key.
Using 4-year time cycles against my Theory, produces Bitcoins exact behavior in time since its inception.
Cycles are centered around the date of the first halving Nov 28th.
Bitcoin price action began at the first bottom October 8th, 2010. This is where cycle curves peak, every 4 years.
Tops and bottoms come +/- 21 days from Nov 28th at their appropriate times on the curve. Tops on the upswing, bottoms on the pinnacle.
After Bitcoin bottoms, price makes an early first cycle move (orange) and enters into a mid-cycle lull.
This is the longest part of the cycle, where Bitcoin spends time around the median price (half of previous ATH), until the curve bottoms.
The bottom of the curve launches the majority of the bull run (blue circle).
The thought that everyone is expecting 4-year cycles allows them to continue right on track. Things like price and exact timing maintain surprise.
These times cycles continue to hold true to this day. We have now almost certainly put in the early top (4) and are entering the mid-cycle lull.
These take place in June in the year following the bottom. The second cycle did this in 2 years after, in June 2016.
The bull run will launch on Nov 28th, 2024.
The next top will be +/- 21 days from Nov 28th, 2025.
The next bottom will be +/- 21 days from Nov 28th, 2026.
The next mid-cycle lull: June 2027.
https://twitter.com/CryptoCon_/status/1699797267895775624
[img wi]https://i.ibb.co/D5tTWYW/20230908-164352.jpg[/img]
The November 28th Cycles Theory has held the key.
Using 4-year time cycles against my Theory, produces Bitcoins exact behavior in time since its inception.
Cycles are centered around the date of the first halving Nov 28th.
Bitcoin price action began at the first bottom October 8th, 2010. This is where cycle curves peak, every 4 years.
Tops and bottoms come +/- 21 days from Nov 28th at their appropriate times on the curve. Tops on the upswing, bottoms on the pinnacle.
After Bitcoin bottoms, price makes an early first cycle move (orange) and enters into a mid-cycle lull.
This is the longest part of the cycle, where Bitcoin spends time around the median price (half of previous ATH), until the curve bottoms.
The bottom of the curve launches the majority of the bull run (blue circle).
The thought that everyone is expecting 4-year cycles allows them to continue right on track. Things like price and exact timing maintain surprise.
These times cycles continue to hold true to this day. We have now almost certainly put in the early top (4) and are entering the mid-cycle lull.
These take place in June in the year following the bottom. The second cycle did this in 2 years after, in June 2016.
The bull run will launch on Nov 28th, 2024.
The next top will be +/- 21 days from Nov 28th, 2025.
The next bottom will be +/- 21 days from Nov 28th, 2026.
The next mid-cycle lull: June 2027.
https://twitter.com/CryptoCon_/status/1699797267895775624
[img wi]https://i.ibb.co/D5tTWYW/20230908-164352.jpg[/img]
To me, that sounds too rigid... .. and like a guess based on selectively choosing retrospective data
in addition buy a birthday card and write a creative text on it with the actual passphrase in between that only your trusted person knows about it, atleast that's what i did.
For OpSec sake, I hope you did not actually do this..
But hey,.. whatever.
There sometimes can be some creative ways to share passphrases, seedwords and/or parts of these in various places, and then ONLY certain people need to know that they need to be assembled and the order in which each of the parts might need to be assembled.. ..
like
First: 30th year birthday card
Second: bible in the living room
third refrigerator magnet
and
Fourth license plate on grandpa's 1976 TransAm
And since those 4 places are vulnerable it may be better to have only 3.. and it probably would be good to have a second set (a backup set)...
and yeah, it ends up getting complicated to have these kinds of things, and for which wallets? All wallets?... and maybe that is ONLY for 1 wallet.. so what if you have 20 wallets? and various other secrets (like passwords?). or does the getting of the one group of passwords give access to everything else.. like a master password.. like bitwarden.. or last pass or something in which we might not want to have all of our passwords.. which would have its own vulnerabilities.
If there aren’t any bad actors this cycle,
That's a pretty BIG
"If"
^^ I think the 4-year cycle is pretty common knowledge by now right? The only reason the last cycle was slightly different and messed up the models a bit was because FTX manipulated the market buy using people’s BTC to pump shitcoins. If there aren’t any bad actors this cycle, things could end up getting pretty wild.
But the current market situation is also wilder than a few years ago. The bitcoin price can suddenly decrease or rise, then fall and fall again, and then remain at that low price for a while. The presence or absence of news still makes the market move erratically and confuses those who analyze it and in the end, many people make mistakes in their analysis.
You seem to be focusing on substantive numbers jcojci, rather than percentage moves.
I doubt that it is getting any wilder in terms of percentage moves, even though there surely are some matters that can be framed as wild aspects.. such as how much time we are spending below the 200-week moving average...
September 08, 2023, 11:01:34 AM
September 08, 2023, 10:59:28 AM
I must be in the wrong thread... like a lost little puppy..
and having the questions:
What is crypto? Does it somehow relate to this here topic?
Crypto?and having the questions:
What is crypto? Does it somehow relate to this here topic?
Reminds me of John Carvahlo's taunting of Roger Ver with the term "Bcash"..
bcash
bcash
bcash
hahahahahaha
So not bragging about your holdings is another easy security layer.
Part of the reason why 0.63 BTC will have to be downgraded, at some point.
@AlcoHoDL, Trezor vulnerability is something that has been known for years, there was a lot of discussion about it in the technical discussion boards, but luckily every user can protect himself by setting a passphrase, and there is also another option, which is the use of an SD card.
When it comes to passphrase, the conclusion is that they should be at least 37 characters long :
For those who are interested in how to protect themselves additionally with the help of an SD card :
Trezor T (2.3.0) and Trezor One (1.9.0) firmware update
Also, one thing I forgot is that it is possible to set a so-called fake PIN that can be left as a bait, and if it is entered, all data from the hardware wallet will be deleted.
A 128 bits PIN should do the trick as well, as it is used to encrypt the seed on the chip.When it comes to passphrase, the conclusion is that they should be at least 37 characters long :
A physical access to a Trezor One, Trezor T, Keepkey, or B-wallet allows an attacker to extract the 12/24-words within a few minutes using a low-cost setup (~100$), with a very high reproducibility (we had 100% success). We finally proved it can be fully automated allowing anyone to use it in case someone would sell the Extraktor box (similar to old Playstation hacks). This attack can not be fixed. The only mitigation is to use a strong passphrase: we recommend 37 random characters to maintain the same level of security.
For those who are interested in how to protect themselves additionally with the help of an SD card :
Trezor T (2.3.0) and Trezor One (1.9.0) firmware update
Also, one thing I forgot is that it is possible to set a so-called fake PIN that can be left as a bait, and if it is entered, all data from the hardware wallet will be deleted.
Quote from: https://blog.trezor.io/increase-your-security-with-the-latest-trezor-updates-6ed984fb5c18
The Wipe Code
Another exciting new feature is the wipe code that acts as a “self-destruct PIN” that erases your Trezor if someone tries to unlock your device without your consent. If the wipe code is entered into any PIN entry dialog, then all private data will be immediately erased from your Trezor and the device will be reset to factory defaults. You can write the wipe code somewhere near your Trezor as a decoy PIN, so if someone tries to unlock the device without your consent, they will cause it to erase itself. You can also use the wipe code to reset your Trezor without using a host device. This update can be enabled on both Trezor models.
Another exciting new feature is the wipe code that acts as a “self-destruct PIN” that erases your Trezor if someone tries to unlock your device without your consent. If the wipe code is entered into any PIN entry dialog, then all private data will be immediately erased from your Trezor and the device will be reset to factory defaults. You can write the wipe code somewhere near your Trezor as a decoy PIN, so if someone tries to unlock the device without your consent, they will cause it to erase itself. You can also use the wipe code to reset your Trezor without using a host device. This update can be enabled on both Trezor models.
(Please let me know if you think I'm wrong)
I still have problems with the need for 37 random characters for the 25th word.. and let's say if someone just has 10-15 somewhat random characters, then how long is it going to take to break into the Trezor?
Remember each time that we log into the device and sometimes we might get disconnected and have to log in again, it can take quite a bit of time to be logging in these 37 random characters each time...
I am not going to say how many digits that I actually use, and I also am not going to give any hints either... and it is bad enough that I said that I use such a device, in theory.
By the way, we have a long term member in these here parts that swears by that piece of crap, aka Ledger, and surely there are probably quite a few members who may or may not be in the closest about their use (and apparent belief) in the Ledger crap.
~snip~
A 128 bits PIN should do the trick as well, as it is used to encrypt the seed on the chip.
(Please let me know if you think I'm wrong)
You are definitely right, considering that I am not a user of Trezor, I was not even aware that in 2021 they increased the maximum PIN length to even 50 digits, and they say that 39 digits is quite enough to protect the seed from hacking. It's actually a good thing for those who for some reason don't want to use a passphrase or maybe don't even know such an option exists - although it's an option they always recommend to advanced users. A 128 bits PIN should do the trick as well, as it is used to encrypt the seed on the chip.
(Please let me know if you think I'm wrong)
Everyone should use the passphrase.. and it should not be considered advanced... and maybe using 37 random characters might be considered advanced.
But I still wonder if a relatively short password might just be considered a less advance version. and is better than no password at all.. so why do we have to have a need to overly complicate matters by suggesting so much complication, when surely it must add quite a bit of difficulty to just have a shorter 25th word in there (or 13th word seems to be more standard) rather than no extra word (passphrase) at all.
In other words, why let the perfect be the enemy of the good?
We have a lot of cases where users wonder why they don't see anything on their balance even though they have the correct seed, and then it turns out that they actually added an extra password without which the seed creates a completely new set of addresses.
It might be a bit impractical to enter a PIN that's 39+ digits long, but for the average user it's probably easier than setting a passphrase.
It might be a bit impractical to enter a PIN that's 39+ digits long, but for the average user it's probably easier than setting a passphrase.
Oh I see that the 39+ pin is different from the extra word...and that 39 character pin would resolve the other issue regarding a hacker getting ahold of the physical device and breaking into it.. so that still leaves the issue of the 13th or 25th word actually not needing to be very complicated, and a 8-15 character passphrase may well make it quite difficult to get at the wallet because they would first need to know (or suspect) that such a wallet (or extra portal to a wallet) actually exists in connection with the 12 or 24 word seed that was extracted from the device.
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