Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 17292. (Read 26609713 times)

DIGIBYTE~*~DGB~*~BITCOINS UNDERDOG BRIAN ===>





POLONIEX tradebotzzz = moooooon lol #dgb4life bwaahaa

I think you're missing my point.  They have an incentive to use LN, but they don't have an incentive to create a personal channel for every transaction.

I agree with that actually.  The Lightning Network's transaction centralisation (which is somewhat inevitable, to be honest) shouldn't be too bad as long as people have the option available to use the real blockchain for large transactions and transactions that require the security of the blockchain.

It's not that users wont be incentivised to go to... Which trouble? Standard BTC transactions will be exactly the same trouble as they are now, nothing changes. But yes, users will be incentivised to use LN for several reasons:

- Lower fees
- Almost INSTANT transactions <- This is a really important point. No blocksize increase could ever reduce a minimum of 10 mins for the first confirmation.
- Real scalability: No more TPS limit. LN networks could process thousands, maybe even millions of transactions per second.

The future usage I envision for myself is something like this:

- For moving my BTC in non trivial ammounts -> BTC Blockchain
- For buying "coffee" or who knows what other smallish stuff -> LN
- For things between those two use cases -> LN or BTC Blockchain depending on the circumstances.

I am not saying that a Block size increase won't be needed in the future. In fact I am sure it will. But what we need first is Segwit. After that, and if it is possible to achieve an enormous consense (95%) for a hardfork to increase the blocksize, then I am ok with that too... a fixed blocksize increase, not a joke like BU.

The bit I don't like is everyone else using 'central' hubs to put their transactions through. 


Yes that illustrates my point LN users wont be incentivised to go to all that trouble either.

Thanks, at least you guys are giving me some food for thought. Mainly responses have been trollish before.

Where do you see the problem of mining centralisation when everyone can just buy their own miner?  

Because they don't have an incentive to go through all that trouble.

So there you have: If most people use LN for their small transactions/payments more block space there is for the "important" transactions if you are willing to pay the fee. You can choose which method you use. What's bad about that?

It's not that you need to chose one way or another, you will be able to decide for each transaction you decide to make.

Thats why WE NEED TO VOTE GENTLEMAN.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/important-vote-segwit-to-increase-its-support-from-32-to-38-on-btc-1904766

I think it is just the fact that a lot of new money is pouring into crypto, because the mess the world is in, capital controls, zero/negative interest rates, gold and silver suppressed.  In previous bubbles, historically the new money always benefited bitcoin most because it had 90% slice of the pie. Now it only has 60 something % because its getting slow and fees are getting high. This is the hard line. Money that wants a piece of crypto sees other good places to speculate where that is still lots of room to  grow.

You can wish for bitcoin to be back to the only recipient of investment money all you want but that won't change the reality.

In real world use case I don't think average users will want to create a new channel for every single time they trade with someone new. It will be a hassle. They will want to just use 'the lightning network'.   Hub and spoke will arise naturally as most efficient and fast way of routing through the network.

 

Man...
This market is just like Muhh this pattern is bullish : ok lets pump it and f*ck what we pump, we are just gonna do it because its possible.
Crypto troll altcoin gambling continues lol

Where do you see the problem of centralisation when anyone can just create their own private channel?

How did this get from me asking for links so I could read up about it to me having to explain it in my words?    
Earlier today more than once I admitted needing more info, and asking for links, (still non provided).

So far I got this. Using LN, bitcoin users can create payment channels to other users, they can pay each other back and forth without any need for commiting to the blockchain. Unless both parties want to close the channel it stays open. A node could have lots of open channels to lots of other nodes. Payments can also be routed through other channels to reach a user who isn't directly connected via their own channel. Thereby a network will be formed. The likely shape of the way the network will evolve will be a hub and spokes model. With certain nodes acting like hubs this becomes a potential centralisation point. These hubs will know a lot of information about all the transactions passing through them.  I'm still sketchy on the fees but I assume these hubs will also be incentivised by fees.  I envisage hubs could act a bit like banks people create a channel with the bank (I mean hub) in order to get fast routing through LN avoiding slow normal bitcoin. These accounts (I mean channels) will stay open. Dumb masses think they are using bitcoin but they aren't (almost all the time).

If you are new: good luck and dont lose all your btc before the rocket ignites.

Alts right now are a very good way to increase your btc holdings. The downside is that if you arent smart (TA wise) or have insider infos the probalities of profiting greatly is rather small.

^BTC @$2017.._^_*(((/\DGB(digibytes)@125satoshis==pump&dump coin of the day :-D

https://poloniex.com/exchange#BTC_DGB


woof!

The alts just get bought by the newbs due to the potential of a 10 to 100x increase in no time. It's greed and the hope of making a quick buck why alts are soaring. Sooner or later this will have to come to an end.
Bitcoin is doing good. It will continue to rule them all.
We had a great run so far and in this moment it looks like we're moving up a bit again. Since 4 days we are swinging around the $1500 range. No reason to be disappointed.

What in the Holy hell is going on with ripple. All of these alt coins are soaring. Not sure how I can be excited with btc when I see all these others succeeding greater.

Can you please explain me with your own words what LN is and does?

You are claiming that LN will create centralization somehow. I see no reason to think that this is the case.

It may not be perfect, but you can't have an infinitely big block size. So layer 2 has to happen and LN is the best way to make it happen.

Thank you for those words of wisdom. Almost as enlightening as your mickey mouse video. Yes I like Dash which is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I like bitcoin too, I'm invested in bitcoin. I care about bitcoin, which is why I'm here worrying and fretting that LN is a bad idea.  

This is from the lighting network paper itself. Near infinite amount of transactions. Off chain. Things that make you go hmm

"If we presume a large network of channels on the Bitcoin blockchain,
and all Bitcoin users are participating on this graph by having at least one
channel open on the Bitcoin blockchain, it is possible to create a near-infinite
amount of transactions inside this network.  The only transactions that are
broadcasted on the Bitcoin blockchain prematurely are with uncooperative
channel counterparties."