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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 18166. (Read 26611159 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1031
I would never underestimate the will of the authorities to prolong that Wile-E-Coyote moment for as long as possible. However it does appear that monetary policy is reaching its limits, finally. Which means you either have to pull something really big/unexpected out of the bag (hear the distant sounds of helicopter rotors turning) or bite the bullet. As you say, markets don't do what you expect them to and I can't see how this will finish. My guess is it will be something almost no one saw coming, probably a complication caused by the desperate attempts to keep things going a while longer but one that remains very much in the background until it's too late.
I would want a few BTC hidden away for that day, though, and ideally very little debt.

If we assume that on a Clinton win that markets would rally, stabilize, and even possibly bull run early next year, then I can interpret that as only one thing: That Wall Street believes that she is more sympathetic to Wall Street, Banks, and the Fed, and what she would likely support when the equities/commodities market crash actually happens: MORE stimulus, MORE socialized losses, MORE interest rate suppression.... and MORE GOVT and CORP DEBT.

Which is exactly what we DON'T need more of.
If interest rates are suppressed, isn't that good for Bitcoin? I seem to remember a Bitcoin crash whenever interest rates were raised or spoken of being raised.

Sure, low interest rates are great for traders in any market, allowing cheap hot money (zero interest credit) to flow in and leverage up.  But this gives a very distorted reflection of true value interest in said markets (eg. sound long term investment vs. quick return), leading to overbought activity (bubble) in just about every market where cheap money flows.

Specifically in terms of bitcoin I don't know what to expect. Conventional wisdom suggests that if interest rates are higher then money will flow there from elsewhere, including bitcoin, though I find it hard to believe the impact will be that significant. Of more relevance might be the relatively weaker Yuan.
legendary
Activity: 3780
Merit: 5429
I would never underestimate the will of the authorities to prolong that Wile-E-Coyote moment for as long as possible. However it does appear that monetary policy is reaching its limits, finally. Which means you either have to pull something really big/unexpected out of the bag (hear the distant sounds of helicopter rotors turning) or bite the bullet. As you say, markets don't do what you expect them to and I can't see how this will finish. My guess is it will be something almost no one saw coming, probably a complication caused by the desperate attempts to keep things going a while longer but one that remains very much in the background until it's too late.
I would want a few BTC hidden away for that day, though, and ideally very little debt.

If we assume that on a Clinton win that markets would rally, stabilize, and even possibly bull run early next year, then I can interpret that as only one thing: That Wall Street believes that she is more sympathetic to Wall Street, Banks, and the Fed, and what she would likely support when the equities/commodities market crash actually happens: MORE stimulus, MORE socialized losses, MORE interest rate suppression.... and MORE GOVT and CORP DEBT.

Which is exactly what we DON'T need more of.
If interest rates are suppressed, isn't that good for Bitcoin? I seem to remember a Bitcoin crash whenever interest rates were raised or spoken of being raised.

Sure, low interest rates are great for traders in any market, allowing cheap hot money (zero interest credit) to flow in and leverage up.  But this gives a very distorted reflection of true value interest/capital preservation in said markets (eg. sound long term investment vs. quick return), leading to overbought activity (bubble) in just about every market where cheap money flows.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
I would never underestimate the will of the authorities to prolong that Wile-E-Coyote moment for as long as possible. However it does appear that monetary policy is reaching its limits, finally. Which means you either have to pull something really big/unexpected out of the bag (hear the distant sounds of helicopter rotors turning) or bite the bullet. As you say, markets don't do what you expect them to and I can't see how this will finish. My guess is it will be something almost no one saw coming, probably a complication caused by the desperate attempts to keep things going a while longer but one that remains very much in the background until it's too late.
I would want a few BTC hidden away for that day, though, and ideally very little debt.

If we assume that on a Clinton win that markets would rally, stabilize, and even possibly bull run early next year, then I can interpret that as only one thing: That Wall Street believes that she is more sympathetic to Wall Street, Banks, and the Fed, and what she would likely support when the equities/commodities market crash actually happens: MORE stimulus, MORE socialized losses, MORE interest rate suppression.... and MORE GOVT and CORP DEBT.

Which is exactly what we DON'T need more of.
If interest rates are suppressed, isn't that good for Bitcoin? I seem to remember a Bitcoin crash whenever interest rates were raised or spoken of being raised.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1031
I would never underestimate the will of the authorities to prolong that Wile-E-Coyote moment for as long as possible. However it does appear that monetary policy is reaching its limits, finally. Which means you either have to pull something really big/unexpected out of the bag (hear the distant sounds of helicopter rotors turning) or bite the bullet. As you say, markets don't do what you expect them to and I can't see how this will finish. My guess is it will be something almost no one saw coming, probably a complication caused by the desperate attempts to keep things going a while longer but one that remains very much in the background until it's too late.
I would want a few BTC hidden away for that day, though, and ideally very little debt.

If we assume that on a Clinton win that markets would rally, stabilize, and even possibly bull run early next year, then I can interpret that as only one thing: That Wall Street believes that she is more sympathetic to Wall Street, Banks, and the Fed, and what she would support when the equities/commodities market crash actually happens: MORE stimulus, MORE socialized losses, MORE interest rate suppression.... and MORE GOVT and CORP DEBT.

Which is exactly what we DON'T need more of.

I think that's a fair assessment. US interest rates are more likely to increase too.
And Sterling will get spanked some more as a result. Ah well.
legendary
Activity: 3780
Merit: 5429
I would never underestimate the will of the authorities to prolong that Wile-E-Coyote moment for as long as possible. However it does appear that monetary policy is reaching its limits, finally. Which means you either have to pull something really big/unexpected out of the bag (hear the distant sounds of helicopter rotors turning) or bite the bullet. As you say, markets don't do what you expect them to and I can't see how this will finish. My guess is it will be something almost no one saw coming, probably a complication caused by the desperate attempts to keep things going a while longer but one that remains very much in the background until it's too late.
I would want a few BTC hidden away for that day, though, and ideally very little debt.

If we assume that on a Clinton win that markets would rally, stabilize, and even possibly bull run early next year, then I can interpret that as only one thing: That Wall Street believes that she is more sympathetic to Wall Street, Banks, and the Fed, and what she would likely support when the equities/commodities market crash actually happens: MORE stimulus, MORE socialized losses, MORE interest rate suppression.... and MORE GOVT and CORP DEBT.

Which is exactly what we DON'T need more of.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
I hate stocks. They dont have tradeable trends and they just immediately jump to some target price whenever news comes out. There are no rebounds and corrections. The banks and big guns have everything locked down to a tee. The worst is how they close and gap on the next day when you cannot trade them, plus they can be halted. On top of that, you have to pay extra to get real time data and pay for order books, on a market by market basis.

i have had more success and ease of access with bitcoin over the last 3 years

my stock not so good

tried to get other stock but could not be bothered with all the fees, brokers, identification, reporting required

F@#k the stock markets

my auditor was concerned with all my btc, my lost/stolen btc in reporting to the tax agent, but yet astounded at the increase of my investment

tried to buy pink diamonds, later decided I would be better off in bitcoin than buying a pink diamond
When I did my taxes in 2013 it was a huge mess because I was using many exchanges and doing complex arbitrage using many coins. It would have been impossible to produce an intelligible trading trail and some of the exchanges were even closed. So I just subtracted the grand total of how much I had at the end of the year minus how much I originally deposited. I said fuck it: here I made $xxx,xxx of "bitcoin profit". Take it or leave it. You should be glad I'm paying taxes in the first place.

I never got audited for the Bitcoin. Though I did get audited for using $1500 from a Health Savings Account account that I forgot to document...
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1031
I would never underestimate the will of the authorities to prolong that Wile-E-Coyote moment for as long as possible. However it does appear that monetary policy is reaching its limits, finally. Which means you either have to pull something really big/unexpected out of the bag (hear the distant sounds of helicopter rotors turning) or bite the bullet. As you say, markets don't do what you expect them to and I can't see how this will finish. My guess is it will be something almost no one saw coming, probably a complication caused by the desperate attempts to keep things going a while longer but one that remains very much in the background until it's too late.
I would want a few BTC hidden away for that day, though, and ideally very little debt.
legendary
Activity: 3780
Merit: 5429
Frankly I'm not sure what I'm expecting from this election, politically or financially. At this point, nothing would surprise me, including the market shrugging a bit 'whatever'.

Agree. The World markets could have all bad news already priced in, although I personally think that's not the case, as I believe the markets are being magically levitated at this point for various reasons.  We could even see a stock market rally next year, but it would just be more fakery to extend equities further into overbought territory.

Here's what I do know, markets rarely do what people expect them to do. Rallies and more bull runs happen when people are expecting the markets to fall from being overheated.  

Crashes usually come after the last bear turns bull, everyone's feeling better about things, and exuberance kicks in.

But this time is different, because if interest rates are being held down and the World markets are being levitated in wait/hope for things to turn around, they're going to be waiting for years longer.  Retailers are going to get slaughtered again this year during the holiday season, corporate profits are falling, job growth is falling, oil will crash lower (eventually), and worldwide deflation is already setting in.  So I can't see how a stock market rally next year would be seen as anything other than dubious at best. If that happens, #expectthecrashsoon
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1031
It looks like there will be a rise in bitcoin since Hitlery is going to win this one with Florida (AGAIN! Roll Eyes ) begin the accusing state to doom the US for 4 more years of devious debauchery with another conniving (unt . Embarrassed
Other posters say Trump would rise Bitcoin. Which is it???

Also apparently every politician is Hitler. I've heard all of them called Hitler, including Trump, Obama and Bernie Sanders. Who is the real Hitler? Which one will gas 6,000,000 people?

If Adolf Hitler himself was elected, would Bitcoin rise or fall?

Trump's polling correlates very well against different asset classes, either positively (gold) or negatively (peso, stocks). It's not hard to guess how a Trump presidency would affect bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not correlated with either one of these asset classes.

Pretty sure a Trump presidency would boost bitcoin. A small minority of people think of it as a safe haven asset for some odd reason. More significant are the traders who think that people treat it as a safe haven, and the traders who think those traders think people treat it as a safe haven... Keynesian Beauty Contest, like Cyprus in 2013.
Not sure if there would be an effect from CNY as traders use it as a proxy for a weaker dollar.


Actually ...with the election being over soon. No matter who wins 40% plus of the population is gonna be p/o'd at the winner. Thus I think after Tuesday BTC will pump regardless
for that reason. Don't envy the next president whoever he or she may be.

Frankly I'm not sure what I'm expecting from this election, politically or financially. At this point, nothing would surprise me, including the market shrugging a bit 'whatever'.
copper member
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1465
Clueless!
It looks like there will be a rise in bitcoin since Hitlery is going to win this one with Florida (AGAIN! Roll Eyes ) begin the accusing state to doom the US for 4 more years of devious debauchery with another conniving (unt . Embarrassed
Other posters say Trump would rise Bitcoin. Which is it???

Also apparently every politician is Hitler. I've heard all of them called Hitler, including Trump, Obama and Bernie Sanders. Who is the real Hitler? Which one will gas 6,000,000 people?

If Adolf Hitler himself was elected, would Bitcoin rise or fall?

Trump's polling correlates very well against different asset classes, either positively (gold) or negatively (peso, stocks). It's not hard to guess how a Trump presidency would affect bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not correlated with either one of these asset classes.

Pretty sure a Trump presidency would boost bitcoin. A small minority of people think of it as a safe haven asset for some odd reason. More significant are the traders who think that people treat it as a safe haven, and the traders who think those traders think people treat it as a safe haven... Keynesian Beauty Contest, like Cyprus in 2013.
Not sure if there would be an effect from CNY as traders use it as a proxy for a weaker dollar.


Actually ...with the election being over soon. No matter who wins 40% plus of the population is gonna be p/o'd at the winner. Thus I think after Tuesday BTC will pump regardless
for that reason. Don't envy the next president whoever he or she may be.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1031
It looks like there will be a rise in bitcoin since Hitlery is going to win this one with Florida (AGAIN! Roll Eyes ) begin the accusing state to doom the US for 4 more years of devious debauchery with another conniving (unt . Embarrassed
Other posters say Trump would rise Bitcoin. Which is it???

Also apparently every politician is Hitler. I've heard all of them called Hitler, including Trump, Obama and Bernie Sanders. Who is the real Hitler? Which one will gas 6,000,000 people?

If Adolf Hitler himself was elected, would Bitcoin rise or fall?

Trump's polling correlates very well against different asset classes, either positively (gold) or negatively (peso, stocks). It's not hard to guess how a Trump presidency would affect bitcoin.
Bitcoin is not correlated with either one of these asset classes.

Pretty sure a Trump presidency would boost bitcoin. A small minority of people think of it as a safe haven asset for some odd reason. More significant are the traders who think that people treat it as a safe haven, and the traders who think those traders think people treat it as a safe haven... Keynesian Beauty Contest, like Cyprus in 2013.
Not sure if there would be an effect from CNY as traders use it as a proxy for a weaker dollar.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1061
Smile
I hate stocks. They dont have tradeable trends and they just immediately jump to some target price whenever news comes out. There are no rebounds and corrections. The banks and big guns have everything locked down to a tee. The worst is how they close and gap on the next day when you cannot trade them, plus they can be halted. On top of that, you have to pay extra to get real time data and pay for order books, on a market by market basis.

i have had more success and ease of access with bitcoin over the last 3 years

my stock not so good

tried to get other stock but could not be bothered with all the fees, brokers, identification, reporting required

F@#k the stock markets

my auditor was concerned with all my btc, my lost/stolen btc in reporting to the tax agent, but yet astounded at the increase of my investment

tried to buy pink diamonds, later decided I would be better off in bitcoin than buying a pink diamond
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
.. but still we do have some unanswered questions concerning how the guy is going to get that much fiat into bitcoin.

I'm still not following.  Even in a country with such currency controls, I'm pretty sure that such a person could theoretically continue to purchase smaller increments of bitcoin over some period of time (for example, every month for 6-12 months) without attracting authority attention, and eventually own $190K worth of bitcoin in a short amount of time.

And I'm sure that there are foreign bitcoin traders (Chinese, etc.) that have purchased FAR more in bitcoin than just $50K/year worth.  And Chinese bitcoin miners could cross any border they wished with hundreds of thousands $$$, perhaps millions in Bitcoin on a Trezor, USB, or laptop wallet and no one would know.

So please clarify what you mean?

Even if Tera and I both seemed to be quibbling a bit with some of your responses, I am more or less in agreement with you that there are a lot of ways to use bitcoin and to purchase bitcoin for the guy to avoid getting into the predicament that he had gotten into.

I am personally quibbling with some of your responses that blanketly attempt to suggest the guy is some kind of innocent and legit business person, and also your seeming to avoid answering questions by suggesting that you are being picked on and seeming to try to oversimplify getting $191k into bitcoin...

I do agree with your last response that there are likely a lot of ways to get $191k into and out of bitcoin as long as a person has sufficient amount of time on both ends, but if the person really prefers cash, then there would likely be considerable volatility risk if it takes nearly a year to transfer into bitcoin on the one end and then transfer back out of bitcoin on the other end.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
Wow, bitcoin has been around for how long now? When are these people going to learn that they have options...

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article112912143.html
So how do you propose that he goes about sending the $191K via Bitcoin? Does he wire it to Bitstamp with a bank account, and then have his recipient wire them out of Bitstamp? Does he meet someone on localbitcoins with a suitcase of cash?

Quote from the article:

At that moment, the complaint says, the Customs agents realized that Santos Castillo appeared nervous and that his jacket’s pockets “had bulges.”

After Santos Castillo took off his jacket and gave it to the agents who requested it, they “noticed and removed several white Bank of America money envelopes.”


The article insinuated that the man was not a known criminal, not breaking the law, but a business man whose money was legitimate and clearly had a real bank account (Bank of America).  So yeah, Trezor, or opening a legit exchange account, something like that.

Unless you're trying to troll me for some reason?

OK. That's even easier. If it's a legitimate transfer then he can send it in ONE step.

1. Wire the money from his bank account to recipient bank account

Rather than with Bitcoin:
1. Wire from his bank account to exchange (subtract fee)
2. Buy bitcoin (subtract fee)
3. Transfer bitcoin, or carry bitcoins using trezor (add/subtract market volatility, plus fee)
4. Sell bitcoin (subtract fee)
5. Withdraw from exchange to recipient account (subtract fee)
*various risks of total loss in most of the above steps

why not stuff your pockets full of cash and walk onto a plane?

when in doubt ask your self what would The Trump do.  Cool


AS if Trump could actually relate to anything of any other person, except himself - and even if he could, he could not relate to any kind of life of a regular person.  Remember, he grew up a spoilt brat of a rich dad, and then learn tricks that rich people are able to pull off that regular people are not able to pull off, even if they are self-obsessed narcisists, like The Trump.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
I hate stocks. They dont have tradeable trends and they just immediately jump to some target price whenever news comes out. There are no rebounds and corrections. The banks and big guns have everything locked down to a tee. The worst is how they close and gap on the next day when you cannot trade them, plus they can be halted. On top of that, you have to pay extra to get real time data and pay for order books, on a market by market basis.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
.. but still we do have some unanswered questions concerning how the guy is going to get that much fiat into bitcoin.

I'm still not following.  Even in a country with such currency controls, I'm pretty sure that such a person could theoretically continue to purchase smaller increments of bitcoin over some period of time (for example, every month for 6-12 months) without attracting authority attention, and eventually own $190K worth of bitcoin in a short amount of time.

And I'm sure that there are foreign bitcoin traders (Chinese, etc.) that have purchased FAR more in bitcoin than just $50K/year worth.  And Chinese bitcoin miners could cross any border they wished with hundreds of thousands $$$, perhaps millions in Bitcoin on a Trezor, USB, or laptop wallet and no one would know.

So please clarify what you mean?

Im not exactly sure about the point of the discussion, but you certainly can buy bitcoins worth of 190 k € otc over a duration of 6-12 month with cash only transactions.

It isnt unusual in europe to have cash transaction worth of 10-20k.
hero member
Activity: 1876
Merit: 612
Plant 1xTree for each Satoshi earned!
Bitcoin is still not large and mature enough yet to be a safe haven. It's still a high tech science experiment mostly supported by the permissiveness of banks and governments. It is going to follow the markets - not go against them.


Dude... u'r some FOMO heavy breather... do you want to buy more and you are waiting your next pay day in a week or so?? Or what is with all the BS's propaganda you are implying??  Roll Eyes



Do you at least know why bitcoin is so slow and not going directly to 10-50 million US$ per coin?? ... Because that means they need to give up their scam system for a legitimate foolproof system.  Cool

bitcoin not a safe haven that's why all my investments in bitcoin are up over 100% in 3 years

my stocks are up no more than 10% in three years


Stocks...  Cheesy

I like stocks... but in this case... I'm just keeping my money away from the banks! For like almost 3-4 years... not keeping anything in the bank anymore! Everyone should do the same! Don't keep u'r sh!t in the bank... but I guess only outside readers would pay attention to this since most of you f$%@ers here don't keep them anyway...  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3780
Merit: 5429
We're talking about an arbitrary person, not a Chinese bitcoin miner.

Also, you don't need to carry bitcoin in anything. You can have them in your mind. You can also transact them to your recipient, or even email them a private key.

Yes, all true, but you're just furthering my point.


If your issue is with "how would he even legitimately purchase that much in bitcoin?" then I'm having a hard time understanding that sentiment, because people do it every year, even in countries with capital controls.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
We're talking about an arbitrary person, not a Chinese bitcoin miner.

Also, you don't need to carry bitcoin in anything. You can have them in your mind. You can also transact them to your recipient, or even email them a private key.
legendary
Activity: 3780
Merit: 5429
.. but still we do have some unanswered questions concerning how the guy is going to get that much fiat into bitcoin.

I'm still not following.  Even in a country with such currency controls, I'm pretty sure that such a person could theoretically continue to purchase smaller increments of bitcoin over some period of time (for example, every month for 6-12 months) without attracting authority attention, and eventually own $190K worth of bitcoin in a short amount of time.

And I'm sure that there are foreign bitcoin traders (Chinese, etc.) that have purchased FAR more in bitcoin than just $50K/year worth.  And Chinese bitcoin miners could cross any border they wished with hundreds of thousands $$$, perhaps millions in Bitcoin on a Trezor, USB, or laptop wallet and no one would know.

So please clarify what you mean?
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