Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 19396.

blunderer

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Quote from: aztecminer on February 08, 2016, 07:56:47 PM

i have awesome strategy for bitcoin . we'll play out the "bitcoin doesn't scale" thing and we will, in the end, do nothing.... some have said that will kill bitcoin .. it will be alright because everyone here has other investments and are only trading with money they don't really need anyways.. that is the prime rule of bitcoin .. only buy bitcoins with what you can afford to lose. and there we go #problemsolved

Welcome to Bitcoin
The first rule of Bitcoin is: you always talk about Bitcoin.
The second rule of Bitcoin is: you always talk about Bitcoin, to everybody. Trap them in an elevator.
Third rule of Bitcoin is: someone yells "stop!", goes limp, taps out, you keep talking about Bitcoin. Only louder.

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

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aztecminer

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i have awesome strategy for bitcoin . we'll play out the "bitcoin doesn't scale" thing and we will, in the end, do nothing.... some have said that will kill bitcoin .. it will be alright because everyone here has other investments and are only trading with money they don't really need anyways.. that is the prime rule of bitcoin .. only buy bitcoins with what you can afford to lose. and there we go #problemsolved

BlindMayorBitcorn

legendary

Activity: 1260

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Quote from: nioc on February 08, 2016, 07:45:23 PM

Quote from: dropt on February 08, 2016, 07:29:00 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on February 08, 2016, 07:21:33 PM

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on February 08, 2016, 07:10:14 PM

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

At the end of the day you can only put so much data in a 1MB space. When all options are exhausted the only path forward is to increase the blocksize. So truthfully, scaling bitcoin is about BOTH "how big we can make the blocks" and "how efficiently we can use the block space."

This seems self evident. Maybe if "both sides" take ecstasy the conflict will be resolved and solutions found Kiss

I could hug you right now.

nioc

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Quote from: dropt on February 08, 2016, 07:29:00 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on February 08, 2016, 07:21:33 PM

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on February 08, 2016, 07:10:14 PM

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

At the end of the day you can only put so much data in a 1MB space. When all options are exhausted the only path forward is to increase the blocksize. So truthfully, scaling bitcoin is about BOTH "how big we can make the blocks" and "how efficiently we can use the block space."

This seems self evident. Maybe if "both sides" take ecstasy the conflict will be resolved and solutions found Kiss

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1014

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: adamstgBit on February 08, 2016, 07:21:33 PM

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on February 08, 2016, 07:10:14 PM

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

Eeehhhrrrmmm.... what about the users then?

I thought it was about making the necessary decisions well ahead of capacity being a problem?

When fee-paying transactions take three days, someone messed up.

This is how much Bitcoin can suck for certified tech-geeks without any congestion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

nioc

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 08, 2016, 07:14:32 PM

Quote from: nioc on February 08, 2016, 06:55:50 PM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 08, 2016, 06:17:45 PM

Quote from: barbs on February 08, 2016, 06:06:16 PM

Quote from: TReano on February 08, 2016, 04:35:15 PM

Gold is up almost 15% without any noticeable pullbacks yet this year. This is straight connected to the dropping Stock markets. The Goldprice is a straight measure of market fear.

This is the time for bitcoin to shine like gold does. If we dump just like the stock markets do I don't see many people looking into bitcoin as a possible investment in bad times.

Gold is up because it solved its block size problem.

you've fallen into Gavin and Mike Hearns govt. doublespeak language trap, there is no "blocksize problem" ... there are only transaction capacity challenges that are largely solved and are being implemented and technological growth constraints that can be adequately worked with.

You are correct that it is a transaction capacity problem. I didn't realize it was largely solved and being implemented.

A few points of clarification please.

What transaction capacity is needed?
Being that the transaction capacity challenges are largely solved, would you please list what those solutions are?
What is the timeline for the implementation of these solutions?
What will be the transaction capacity be when these solutions are implemented and how does it compare to the needed transaction capacity?

Thank you.

NP I'm amazed you don't seem to be aware of the capacity increases roadmap and screeds of pages of discussioon that been written about it by now, but here is the link https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html https://bitcoincore.org/en/2015/12/21/capacity-increase/ and a FAQ link seeing as you have lots of innocently leading queries also it seems https://bitcoincore.org/en/2015/12/23/capacity-increases-faq/

Thanks, 70 hr work weeks leave my brain a bit mushy. At least I can be on BCT for some of that time. I remember starting to read that 12/7 writing by Maxwell and then merely bookmarked it and never got back to it. The FAQ puts things in an easier format for me. It is now bookmarked Grin

sAt0sHiFanClub

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

Quote from: adamstgBit on February 08, 2016, 07:21:33 PM

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on February 08, 2016, 07:10:14 PM

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

Thats a bit mad really, isn't it?

Needing to use space more efficiently, when in reality its not in short supply at all. Except that it is decided to be.
And by increasing complexity? hmmmm.

1st world problems, eh?

ButtLava

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: adamstgBit on February 08, 2016, 07:21:33 PM

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

Scaling bitcoin isn't about either of those things, it's about getting more transactions per block. Ideally that is done efficiently, but scaling can mean one or the other or both. The end result is more transactions. If the goal wasn't more transactions then segwit would lower the block size to match its efficiency to keep the amount of transactions the same.

dropt

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Activity: 1512

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Quote from: adamstgBit on February 08, 2016, 07:21:33 PM

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on February 08, 2016, 07:10:14 PM

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

At the end of the day you can only put so much data in a 1MB space. When all options are exhausted the only path forward is to increase the blocksize. So truthfully, scaling bitcoin is about BOTH "how big we can make the blocks" and "how efficiently we can use the block space."

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on February 08, 2016, 07:10:14 PM

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on February 08, 2016, 06:59:12 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

bitcoin protocol compromised?

Nah, it's just been captured by a neckbearded junta of would-be technocrats and central planners. The centralized channels of communication have been sanitized in an effort to maintain imaginary control. As their grasp on the reins of illusory power tightens and the reins fray to the strength of a single thread... you will hear the staccato keyboard taps of their enablers reach a fevered pitch. They've gathered up a $76MM war chest, obtained by promises that they have everything well in hand. The best lie (and VC pitch) is the one you believe yourself.

Good news tho, the ones who solve the blocks that facilitate the whole shebang... are beginning to wise up to what's going on. They won't be ceding their future profits to their future competition.

The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

wow this post reeks and I can't tell if it's from the verbal diarrhea attempt at spin or the plain desperation ... maybe the darkness is just darkness of a dark dying movement, no false dawns?

Cconvert2G36

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

I know of at least 3 sidechain projects in the works. Do you think a sidechain will be worth less after a hard fork brings more capacity? Do you think Blockstream will be held legally accountable?

The hard fork itself doesn't bring the capacity, the miners deciding to mine bigger blocks does. Sidechains should be fine if they are able to compete on equal footing with native tx, there are likely many cases where they can be successful in that.

Blockstream will be held accountable by the market, the miners that process transactions, and the users/customers that pay for their product/service. I wish them success as long as it is attained by competitive, not coercive means.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: nioc on February 08, 2016, 06:55:50 PM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 08, 2016, 06:17:45 PM

Quote from: barbs on February 08, 2016, 06:06:16 PM

Quote from: TReano on February 08, 2016, 04:35:15 PM

Gold is up almost 15% without any noticeable pullbacks yet this year. This is straight connected to the dropping Stock markets. The Goldprice is a straight measure of market fear.

This is the time for bitcoin to shine like gold does. If we dump just like the stock markets do I don't see many people looking into bitcoin as a possible investment in bad times.

Gold is up because it solved its block size problem.

you've fallen into Gavin and Mike Hearns govt. doublespeak language trap, there is no "blocksize problem" ... there are only transaction capacity challenges that are largely solved and are being implemented and technological growth constraints that can be adequately worked with.

You are correct that it is a transaction capacity problem. I didn't realize it was largely solved and being implemented.

A few points of clarification please.

What transaction capacity is needed?
Being that the transaction capacity challenges are largely solved, would you please list what those solutions are?
What is the timeline for the implementation of these solutions?
What will be the transaction capacity be when these solutions are implemented and how does it compare to the needed transaction capacity?

Thank you.

NP I'm amazed you don't seem to be aware of the capacity increases roadmap and screeds of pages of discussioon that been written about it by now, but here is the link https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html https://bitcoincore.org/en/2015/12/21/capacity-increase/ and a FAQ link seeing as you have lots of innocently leading queries also it seems https://bitcoincore.org/en/2015/12/23/capacity-increases-faq/

sAt0sHiFanClub

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on February 08, 2016, 06:59:12 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

bitcoin protocol compromised?

Nah, it's just been captured by a neckbearded junta of would-be technocrats and central planners. The centralized channels of communication have been sanitized in an effort to maintain imaginary control. As their grasp on the reins of illusory power tightens and the reins fray to the strength of a single thread... you will hear the staccato keyboard taps of their enablers reach a fevered pitch. They've gathered up a $76MM war chest, obtained by promises that they have everything well in hand. The best lie (and VC pitch) is the one you believe yourself.

Good news tho, the ones who solve the blocks that facilitate the whole shebang... are beginning to wise up to what's going on. They won't be ceding their future profits to their future competition.

The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

I know of at least 3 sidechain projects in the works. Do you think a sidechain will be worth less after a hard fork brings more capacity? Do you think Blockstream will be held legally accountable?

Hasn't bluematt just solved all our problems? 1.5Mb HF with SW discount reduced to 50% ?

Must be getting kinda hot in core about now....

Cconvert2G36

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: blunderer on February 08, 2016, 06:44:55 PM

^For the first time I actually felt bad for him.
In azhun jail Cry

Karpeles the sequel is going to be like an epic samurai comic.

He comes out of jail with deep links to the Yakuza network who have need for moving large sums internationally bada-bing bitcoin! Mt. Gox-reloaded on the deepweb ... but now has huge chip on his shoulder because someone injected his cat inappropriately and it died. Basically he turns badass gangster gangnam style ... and finally learns C++ and JS just 'cause. Oh, and gives up dreams of booking all his frappunico double-whipped cream toppings directly to the blockchain.

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

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Cconvert2G36

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

bitcoin protocol compromised?

Nah, it's just been captured by a neckbearded junta of would-be technocrats and central planners. The centralized channels of communication have been sanitized in an effort to maintain imaginary control. As their grasp on the reins of illusory power tightens and the reins fray to the strength of a single thread... you will hear the staccato keyboard taps of their enablers reach a fevered pitch. They've gathered up a $76MM war chest, obtained by promises that they have everything well in hand. The best lie (and VC pitch) is the one you believe yourself.

Good news tho, the ones who solve the blocks that facilitate the whole shebang... are beginning to wise up to what's going on. They won't be ceding their future profits to their future competition.

The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: nioc on February 08, 2016, 06:55:50 PM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on February 08, 2016, 06:17:45 PM

Quote from: barbs on February 08, 2016, 06:06:16 PM

Quote from: TReano on February 08, 2016, 04:35:15 PM

Gold is up almost 15% without any noticeable pullbacks yet this year. This is straight connected to the dropping Stock markets. The Goldprice is a straight measure of market fear.

This is the time for bitcoin to shine like gold does. If we dump just like the stock markets do I don't see many people looking into bitcoin as a possible investment in bad times.

Gold is up because it solved its block size problem.

you've fallen into Gavin and Mike Hearns govt. doublespeak language trap, there is no "blocksize problem" ... there are only transaction capacity challenges that are largely solved and are being implemented and technological growth constraints that can be adequately worked with.

You are correct that it is a transaction capacity problem. I didn't realize it was largely solved and being implemented.

A few points of clarification please.

What transaction capacity is needed?
Being that the transaction capacity challenges are largely solved, would you please list what those solutions are?
What is the timeline for the implementation of these solutions?
What will be the transaction capacity be when these solutions are implemented and how does it compare to the needed transaction capacity?

Thank you.

i'll anwer your questions in order

for now... about double what we have now.

segwit mostly.

6months ISH

about double.

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