Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 19824. (Read 26609780 times)

So which is it? For or against fiat?

I hear what you're saying, but it comes back to economics. You can't have SUSTAINABLE growth without capital formation (savings). You can't build wealth without deferring gratification. A fisherman who wants to be more productive than catching fish by hand has to take time away from fishing to make a fishing rod.  Then he catches more fish faster, but he has to take time away from that to make a net or a trot line. 

 Fiat and artificially low interest rates are designed to increase the velocity of money at the expense of capital formation. This will destroy the economy in the long run. We're in the process of watching that play out now. 

i have a solution.

send 90% of your coins to me and i shall grant you your wish.

Devaluation as compared to what? And it what time-frame? Gold and oil are not holding their value against the dollar. Yes, there is an inflation tax, but dollars are the most liquid asset in the world, so for many it is worth it to have flexibility. Things change. You have to have the ability to adapt to new conditions and fiat helps you do that.

Someday some form of crypto will likely be better, but it won't be on a network with a 7 transaction per second capacity.

Well, aside from the constant devaluation.

Ok, we're into name-calling. I'm done now.

That's a good point that I agree with strongly, but until this blocksize/scaling issue gets solved, You're just gambling (unless you have asymmetric information).

What I hate about the current economic situation is that we are FORCED to gamble because interest real interest rates are negative (adjusting for inflation). The safest investment is paying off all high interest loans and living within your means. Invest your time in learning things, getting in shape and staying healthy. Invest in people you love. 

Thanks.

You dont really any capital to start. I started with a few hundred bucks, in addition to building miners. The mining wasn't too profitable. It added a little more 'starting capital' but mostly it was a good learning experience and gives you more knowledge about the fundamentals of crypto. But really you can just start with a few hundred bucks, or maybe even less.

When you have such a small amount of money, you can easily play all the markets because you don't require any volume. You can play altcoins (or mine them) and ride all the 500% waves with your 1 BTC of volume. Or you can trade bitcoin/litecoin but get much easier fills because of the only 1BTC volume, and you can usually pay only the 0.05% maker fee on bitfinex.

Once you get into the higher numbers of bitcoin, it's much harder to trade with requiring people to execute against your massive orders, and altcoins are pretty much out. You have to be more predictive rather than reactive and really know what you're doing and use TA, which doesn't work. Since I started trading with larger numbers it's been really stressful and boring. I want to go back.

So don't worry about starting with a whole bunch of capital. If you really want to be dedicated to trading and learning how crypto works, it will be easier, better, and less risky to start with a small number. Then it might only be 6 months or so until you have a large number like you said .

If you start with a small amount and lose it, you might not have a problem just depositing another small amount.  If you start with a large amount and lose it, you'll probably never want to come back to crypto again.


On a side note, when I first started trading in 2013 there was much more volatility,  and more volume in the altcoin markets. So this might be harder for you.

lightly... like a wife

Inflation, though, lightly scorches you; that's why one has to invest her savings.

except when btc went from 220 to 515

Don't know if I am considered a trader but
I ussually buy and hodl for long periods (weeks to years)

I keep an eye on the price every hour or so

holding fiat has burned me zero times

This is why I don't like to get drawn into discussions with newbies. Sarcasm isn't an argument. If you want to talk about divide and conquer, look at what's happening with the core developers. There are real technical and philosophical differences in opinion that are being exacerbated by someone. What is unknown is if it is manipulators trying to get coins on the cheap or banksters killing the competition.

But if you think the State doesn't have it's useful idiots like you claim rich people do, then look at every serviceman who came home in a flag-draped coffin.

Coin



Explanation

Time and expertise are surely cardinal elements. I was precisely interested in knowing the number of hours that a bitcoin trader who actually makes money devotes every day to the activity.

The average trader loses money. It's close to the Parato ratio 80:20 losers:winners. Not that many of the losers will admit that.

I guess we won't get statistical information... not that Homo statisticus' (Bitcoin) average trader exists, but it's indicative. Anecdotal (but actual) evidence is welcome too.

If you are good enough, you could do it with a thousand bucks. If you suck, you could turn a million bucks into twenty grand in a year.