Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 24725.

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3962

Merit: 11519

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: Omikifuse on November 04, 2014, 02:53:12 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 04, 2014, 02:51:37 PM

Quote from: derpinheimer on November 04, 2014, 02:37:03 PM

Quote from: blatchcorn on November 04, 2014, 02:32:25 PM

Quote from: podyx on November 04, 2014, 02:10:13 PM

We would all be wealthy assholes, so why not?

This effect is proof that the willy bot did nothing.

If it was as simple as making a bot to drive the price up, the exchanges would have made another bot by now.

Uh, well.. it would be highly illegal. Not sure you understand what you're actually saying. Actually, I'm certain you dont.

"highly illegal?"

What would be illegal?

A lot of the BTC world is unregulated no?

unless you are talking about some kind of common law fraud, then that is a different story... but largely, at this time, insider trading rules do NOT apply to BTC does it?

Buy stuff with non existent money is illegal anywhere, as far I know

No matter what the stuff is

I agree about that; however, there are various practices, such as fractional reserve banking, that exist in various financial circles that have become acceptable means upon which to transact - and sometimes there can exist some murkiness regarding whether any laws are being violated, especially in an industry (BTC space) that remains largely unregulated.

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3962

Merit: 11519

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: elasticband on November 04, 2014, 02:52:36 PM

the bot bought GOXBTC with fake injected $$$ and then went into reverse and dumped into the market selling GOXBTC to everyone

edit: read this full a quick breakdown on mtgox/willy

I think that I made a very similar point - when I mention an exception to if there is fraud going on.

Accordingly, in regard to buying and/or selling with fake money/BTC while a large majority of the traders using the exchange believes that the transactions are with real money/BTC, then that is likely a different story than just employing the services of a trading bot to cause high volume price manipulation. B/c there are several scenarios in which some large players may consider it in their interest to operate at a "loss" regarding their BTC trades in the short term in order to attempt manipulate BTC prices downward and to attempt to undermine public confidence in the viability and/or future prospects of BTC.

jaberwock

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1127

Quote from: elasticband on November 04, 2014, 03:11:42 PM

Quote

The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost. Satoshi N.

What if the production costs varies from people to poeple and also wether they are already producint the commodity or not?

And was BTC supposed to be a commodity?

elasticband

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom

well presuming you buy some mining HW and eventually ROI on this and you ALSO cover the cost of your electricity and you have 0.1BTC left over, How much did that cost to
produce?

edit: Now lets multiply that calculation by 10, so the cost of 1btc would be?

NotLambchop

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 254

Quote from: Omikifuse on November 04, 2014, 02:40:01 PM

why is the poll still about the prices on halloween?

Or is it about the next year's haloween?

Because Bitcoin drove Adam to drink Sad

janos666

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: elasticband on November 04, 2014, 03:11:42 PM

Quote

The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost. Satoshi N.

So, we should sum the money spent on mining hardware (it's a little tricky for the early general purpose hardware which probably got re-purposed by now but was allocated for some time and got partially degraded ; and it seems almost impossible to get accurate data from ASIC manufacturers) and integrate the average watt/hash (which is a little difficult but could be guessed with a reasonable tolerance) with the hash/time graph (this one is really easy to get) and extrapolate a little bit into the future (until the money spent becomes a coin sold - but it's probably not more than a few days, so given the big uncertainty of other data this step can be safely skipped).
I don't even wish to guess anything closer than "between 10 and 400$". Cheesy

esse83

hero member

Activity: 545

Merit: 500

Quote from: derpinheimer on November 04, 2014, 03:26:49 PM

Looks like triple top? Dump o' clock is nearing??

Nope, it will just continue to hover above the fake bidwalls for now.

derpinheimer

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Looks like triple top? Dump o' clock is nearing??

elasticband

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom

Quote from: elasticband on November 04, 2014, 01:57:48 PM

does anyone want to claim my bitstamp account? It's really not worth my time to give them my identity so if anyone wants to claim it please PM me

Quote

Account value:$0.72BTC balance:0.00000000 BTCUSD balance:$0.72

Too the TWO people who have PM'ed me wishing to claim my balance and in particualar to the one who asked if i needed to be paid upfront........ You do notice the blance is $0.72 & 0.0000000BTC Roll Eyes

elasticband

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom

Quote

The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost. Satoshi N.

manfred

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1001

Energy is Wealth

Quote from: Omikifuse on November 04, 2014, 03:02:46 PM

Quote from: downtosimple on November 04, 2014, 02:58:28 PM

How can we compare volumes between exchanges with and without charges? They are just not comparable.

However, the volumes by the exchange its self are comparable. If we compare current volume of BTC-China with its past volume, we see it has resumed to volume of last bubble. The same happens on Huobi, Okcoin and Bitfinex.

Why volumes increase to or close to those of last bubble, in a downtrend market? Does that mean we are close to bottom? Anyone to comment?

Means someone is selling a lot, instead of buying a lot.

So we are in a down bubble, not an up bubble

down bubbles are no fun

downtosimple

newbie

Activity: 8

Merit: 0

Quote from: Omikifuse on November 04, 2014, 03:02:46 PM

Quote from: downtosimple on November 04, 2014, 02:58:28 PM

How can we compare volumes between exchanges with and without charges? They are just not comparable.

However, the volumes by the exchange its self are comparable. If we compare current volume of BTC-China with its past volume, we see it has resumed to volume of last bubble. The same happens on Huobi, Okcoin and Bitfinex.

Why volumes increase to or close to those of last bubble, in a downtrend market? Does that mean we are close to bottom? Anyone to comment?

Means someone is selling a lot, instead of buying a lot.

So we are in a down bubble, not an up bubble

Could that mean some other one is buying a lot, as well?

Omikifuse

legendary

Activity: 1862

Merit: 1009

Quote from: downtosimple on November 04, 2014, 02:58:28 PM

How can we compare volumes between exchanges with and without charges? They are just not comparable.

However, the volumes by the exchange its self are comparable. If we compare current volume of BTC-China with its past volume, we see it has resumed to volume of last bubble. The same happens on Huobi, Okcoin and Bitfinex.

Why volumes increase to or close to those of last bubble, in a downtrend market? Does that mean we are close to bottom? Anyone to comment?

Means someone is selling a lot, instead of buying a lot.

So we are in a down bubble, not an up bubble

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

downtosimple

newbie

Activity: 8

Merit: 0

How can we compare volumes between exchanges with and without charges? They are just not comparable.

However, the volumes by the exchange its self are comparable. If we compare current volume of BTC-China with its past volume, we see it has resumed to volume of last bubble. The same happens on Huobi, Okcoin and Bitfinex.

Why volumes increase to or close to those of last bubble, in a downtrend market? Does that mean we are close to bottom? Anyone to comment?

Omikifuse

legendary

Activity: 1862

Merit: 1009

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 04, 2014, 02:51:37 PM

Quote from: derpinheimer on November 04, 2014, 02:37:03 PM

Quote from: blatchcorn on November 04, 2014, 02:32:25 PM

Quote from: podyx on November 04, 2014, 02:10:13 PM

We would all be wealthy assholes, so why not?

This effect is proof that the willy bot did nothing.

If it was as simple as making a bot to drive the price up, the exchanges would have made another bot by now.

Uh, well.. it would be highly illegal. Not sure you understand what you're actually saying. Actually, I'm certain you dont.

"highly illegal?"

What would be illegal?

A lot of the BTC world is unregulated no?

unless you are talking about some kind of common law fraud, then that is a different story... but largely, at this time, insider trading rules do NOT apply to BTC does it?

Buy stuff with non existent money is illegal anywhere, as far I know

No matter what the stuff is

elasticband

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom

the bot bought GOXBTC with fake injected $$$ and then went into reverse and dumped into the market selling GOXBTC to everyone

edit: read this full a quick breakdown on mtgox/willy

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3962

Merit: 11519

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: derpinheimer on November 04, 2014, 02:37:03 PM

Quote from: blatchcorn on November 04, 2014, 02:32:25 PM

Quote from: podyx on November 04, 2014, 02:10:13 PM

We would all be wealthy assholes, so why not?

This effect is proof that the willy bot did nothing.

If it was as simple as making a bot to drive the price up, the exchanges would have made another bot by now.

Uh, well.. it would be highly illegal. Not sure you understand what you're actually saying. Actually, I'm certain you dont.

"highly illegal?"

What would be illegal?

A lot of the BTC world is unregulated no?

unless you are talking about some kind of common law fraud, then that is a different story... but largely, at this time, insider trading rules do NOT apply to BTC does it?

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: WeGotCactus on November 04, 2014, 01:58:25 PM

No way in hell. MtGox could not absorb hundreds of thousands of coins being taken off the market without going well in to the 10000's/BTC

It was fake money buying real BTC. Most logical explanation.

I've heard that before. Can you explain where the BTC are if the bot actually purchased them with fake money? I've never seen any explanation proving that Gox ever had those actual BTC.
[/quote]

Here is a scenario: since sometime in 2013, when the demand in China starte to rise, someone at MtGOX bought 800'000 of coins from other customers, mostly 10% above market, with imaginary money. He sent the coins to China, selling them there for yuan. The plan was to get the yuan converted to dollars and deposit the latter at MtGOX, to make good on those purchases. The PBoC decrees however made that impossible (or someone embezzled the money on the way).

CoinDox

full member

Activity: 192

Merit: 100

Too much serious business here lately, why can't we just party like it's out of sight? Houbi knows what's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoCgOVSVWJI

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 24725. (Read 26713289 times)