Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 25973.

Walsoraj

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Ultranode

Quote from: Torque on September 04, 2014, 11:15:51 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 04, 2014, 10:54:42 PM

Quote from: mooncake on September 04, 2014, 10:35:47 PM

As for economical, political, social and practical issues, wouldn't it be better for your colleagues in these other fields to comment? You are entitied to your views in these areas, of course, just saying these areas may not be your expertise.

The problems and argument flaws that I see are simple enough that one does not need to be a specialist in those fields to understand them. On the other hand, some of them (such as the risk of theft) require knowledge of computers and cryptography that experts in those fields rarely have. Moreover, few of them seem to care enough about bitcoin to learn about its economic and social fabric (exchanges, funds, payment processors, scams, miners, castles, frappucinos, ...)

Everyone knows you are a paid troll here to stir negativity and doubt. Otherwise you wouldn't have a reason to spend so much time here.

False dichotomy, for example.

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: Walsoraj on September 04, 2014, 10:56:14 PM

Bitcoin's attraction to informal fallacies reminds me of numerous pseudosciences. Some of the most insightful articles I've read about Bitcoin highlight the community's cultish attitude.

I may know what articles you are alluding to. Or maybe I don't. Cheesy

Quote from: Walsoraj on September 04, 2014, 10:56:14 PM

Jorge, you are looking at this in the wrong light. Cults and pseudosciences can persist through almost any obstacle. In fact, obstacles typically embolden the followers.

Thus, Bitcoin may survive and thrive for quite a while longer. For all the wrong reasons of course.

Good insight... I believe that there is a chance that the blockchain will be maintained for the next hundred years, if only as a fun challenge.

Quote from: Walsoraj on September 04, 2014, 10:56:14 PM

But, that doesn't mean it isn't a good investment. Cheesy

It obviously has been, until now. Will it continue to be?

I wouldn't say that it is a good investment, but it is certainly a great gambling game.

I believe that the price will drop to zero eventually, but won't dare to guess what it will be one hour from now. I think I understand a bit about the market now, but not not enough to predict the price.

For instance, I bet that the Esteemed Colleague who predicted "10$ by mid 2014" was not quite aware of the situation in China. In my view, the Chinese traders may continue their gambling for many months still, and the price may wander between 300$ (or less) to 1200$ (or more), depending mainly on their mood.

Torque

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 04, 2014, 10:54:42 PM

Quote from: mooncake on September 04, 2014, 10:35:47 PM

As for economical, political, social and practical issues, wouldn't it be better for your colleagues in these other fields to comment? You are entitied to your views in these areas, of course, just saying these areas may not be your expertise.

The problems and argument flaws that I see are simple enough that one does not need to be a specialist in those fields to understand them. On the other hand, some of them (such as the risk of theft) require knowledge of computers and cryptography that experts in those fields rarely have. Moreover, few of them seem to care enough about bitcoin to learn about its economic and social fabric (exchanges, funds, payment processors, scams, miners, castles, frappucinos, ...)

Everyone knows you are a paid troll here to stir negativity and doubt. Otherwise you wouldn't have a reason to spend so much time here.

Wary

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Who's there?

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 04, 2014, 10:06:48 PM

Quote from: Wary on September 04, 2014, 10:04:06 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on September 04, 2014, 09:09:20 PM

It's a ponzi.
It's a pyramid.
There is no intrinsic value.
...
I should not go to bed now

we cannot go to bed

the next 8 hours are critical

Wink

We should postpone going to bed till the next halving. At least.

shmadz

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@theshmadz

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 04, 2014, 10:56:56 PM

if i have a bitcoin wallet, and my friend living on mars has a bitcoin wallet, and i sent him a bitcoin, does the bitcoin travel faster than the speed of light?

Haha, trick question, bitcoins don't travel Tongue

shmadz

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@theshmadz

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 04, 2014, 03:46:58 PM

Just for curiosity, if some day you use bitcoin to buy a car, how will you make sure that the address that you are sending the bitcoins to is indeed the car dealer's? What will you do if the car dealer tells you that they did not receive any bitcoins, and that their payment address is not the one you used?

Jorge Lolfi ladies and gentlemen, he'll be here all week.

mooncake

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Quote from: adamstgBit on September 04, 2014, 10:56:56 PM

if i have a bitcoin wallet, and my friend living on mars has a bitcoin wallet, and i sent him a bitcoin, does the bitcoin travel faster than the speed of light?

You may have sent, but has he received?

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

Walsoraj

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Ultranode

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 04, 2014, 10:56:56 PM

if i have a bitcoin wallet, and my friend living on mars has a bitcoin wallet, and i sent him a bitcoin, does the bitcoin travel faster than the speed of light?

Yes. Please send more fiat to your favorite exchange.

adamstgBit

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Activity: 1904

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Trusted Bitcoiner

if i have a bitcoin wallet, and my friend living on mars has a bitcoin wallet, and i sent him a bitcoin, does the bitcoin travel faster than the speed of light?

Walsoraj

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Ultranode

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 04, 2014, 10:26:21 PM

Quote from: jaberwock on September 04, 2014, 10:03:57 PM

would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol

We went through this, perhaps 4000 pages ago...

I have no technical criticisms about the protocol. I am satisfied that it works as it was claimed to do. There may be some efficiency problems, but I am willing to assume that they can be solved in due time.

My skepticism about its longterm success is due to economical, political, social and practical issues. Many of the predictions that bitcoiners take for granted seem highly improbable to me. They minimize, or ignore altogether, many problems (such as the risk of theft) that I believe are quite serious. And so on.

Bitcoin's attraction to informal fallacies reminds me of numerous pseudosciences. Some of the most insightful articles I've read about Bitcoin highlight the community's cultish attitude.

Jorge, you are looking at this in the wrong light. Cults and pseudosciences can persist through almost any obstacle. In fact, obstacles typically embolden the followers.

Thus, Bitcoin may survive and thrive for quite a while longer. For all the wrong reasons of course. But, that doesn't mean it isn't a good investment. Cheesy

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: mooncake on September 04, 2014, 10:35:47 PM

As for economical, political, social and practical issues, wouldn't it be better for your colleagues in these other fields to comment? You are entitied to your views in these areas, of course, just saying these areas may not be your expertise.

The problems and argument flaws that I see are simple enough that one does not need to be a specialist in those fields to understand them. On the other hand, some of them (such as the risk of theft) require knowledge of computers and cryptography that experts in those fields rarely have. Moreover, few of them seem to care enough about bitcoin to learn about its economic and social fabric (exchanges, funds, payment processors, scams, miners, castles, frappucinos, ...)

adamstgBit

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Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: mooncake on September 04, 2014, 10:35:47 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 04, 2014, 10:26:21 PM

Quote from: jaberwock on September 04, 2014, 10:03:57 PM

would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol

We went through this, perhaps 4000 pages ago...

I have no technical criticisms about the protocol. I am satisfied that it works as it was claimed to do. There may be some efficiency problems, but I am willing to assume that they can be solved in due time.

My skepticism about its longterm success is due to economical, political, social and practical issues. Many of the predictions that bitcoiners take for granted seem highly improbable to me. They minimize, or ignore altogether, many problems (such as the risk of theft) that I believe are quite serious. And so on.

Given that you are a computer scientist, we are glad to hear that you are satisfied with its technicalities.

As for economical, political, social and practical issues, wouldn't it be better for your colleagues in these other fields to comment? You are entitied to your views in these areas, of course, just saying these areas may not be your expertise.

like this guy?

no one has a F'ing clue!

vuduchyld

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Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: adamstgBit on September 04, 2014, 10:06:48 PM

Quote from: Wary on September 04, 2014, 10:04:06 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on September 04, 2014, 09:09:20 PM

It's a ponzi.
It's a pyramid.
There is no intrinsic value.
...
I should not go to bed now

we cannot go to bed

the next 8 hours are critical

Wink

8 hours? Did you forget? The Next 24 Hours are Critical for Bitcoin^TM

mooncake

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 04, 2014, 10:26:21 PM

Quote from: jaberwock on September 04, 2014, 10:03:57 PM

would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol

We went through this, perhaps 4000 pages ago...

I have no technical criticisms about the protocol. I am satisfied that it works as it was claimed to do. There may be some efficiency problems, but I am willing to assume that they can be solved in due time.

My skepticism about its longterm success is due to economical, political, social and practical issues. Many of the predictions that bitcoiners take for granted seem highly improbable to me. They minimize, or ignore altogether, many problems (such as the risk of theft) that I believe are quite serious. And so on.

Given that you are a computer scientist, we are glad to hear that you are satisfied with its technicalities.

As for economical, political, social and practical issues, wouldn't it be better for your colleagues in these other fields to comment? You are entitied to your views in these areas, of course, just saying these areas may not be your expertise.

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: xyzzy099 on September 04, 2014, 10:04:26 AM

I would like to offer you my public apology, Jorge, for my characterization of you as 'an old dog who won't learn a new trick'. It really wasn't fair or particularly accurate, and, in retrospect, I would like to think my rhetorical skills are good enough that I could have made my argument without the need for that characterization.

You have my deepest apologies, and, in the future I will strive to keep my arguments at a less personal level.

Thanks, no grudge kept. I will say a good word for you to the Bitcoin Goddess next time I meet her. All the best.

adamstgBit

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Activity: 1904

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Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 04, 2014, 10:26:21 PM

Quote from: jaberwock on September 04, 2014, 10:03:57 PM

would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol

We went through this, perhaps 4000 pages ago...

I have no technical criticisms about the protocol. I am satisfied that it works as it was claimed to do. There may be some efficiency problems, but I am willing to assume that they can be solved in due time.

My skepticism about its longterm success is due to economical, political, social and practical issues. Many of the predictions that bitcoiners take for granted seem highly improbable to me. They minimize, or ignore altogether, many problems (such as the risk of theft) that I believe are quite serious. And so on.

just wait till the bail-in and we can talk about risk of theft.

its inevitable poeple... banks are gonna fail because the gamble with cheap money, and government said they would no longer bail them out , and so banks will start to do bail-in's

what you should worry about is 3rd party risk.

grappa_barricata

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Merit: 100

playing pasta and eating mandolinos

You can't solve theft, be it cash, sandwiches or bitcoin private keys. Agreed?

JorgeStolfi

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: jaberwock on September 04, 2014, 10:03:57 PM

would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol

We went through this, perhaps 4000 pages ago...

I have no technical criticisms about the protocol. I am satisfied that it works as it was claimed to do. There may be some efficiency problems, but I am willing to assume that they can be solved in due time.

My skepticism about its longterm success is due to economical, political, social and practical issues. Many of the predictions that bitcoiners take for granted seem highly improbable to me. They minimize, or ignore altogether, many problems (such as the risk of theft) that I believe are quite serious. And so on.

JayJuanGee

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Activity: 3920

Merit: 11299

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: xyzzy099 on September 04, 2014, 10:04:26 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 04, 2014, 09:46:55 AM

Quote from: mooncake on September 04, 2014, 07:41:44 AM

He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject.present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject.

Sorry if the sarcasm was not clear; you must not have seen what people wrote here about me. Wink

I would like to offer you my public apology, Jorge, for my characterization of you as 'an old dog who won't learn a new trick'. It really wasn't fair or particularly accurate, and, in retrospect, I would like to think my rhetorical skills are good enough that I could have made my argument without the need for that characterization.

You have my deepest apologies, and, in the future I will strive to keep my arguments at a less personal level.

Good luck!!! You have proven to be a fairly emotional kind of poster, so far from what I have seen. Cheesy

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 25973. (Read 26607976 times)