Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 26021. (Read 26609512 times)

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
TROLL QUOTE DENIED

However wanted to address his comment...not quite sure how you equate price to being the defining factor of bitcoin's growth

I think it has to do with thinking of Bitcoin primarily as some kind of investment.

That's a trap into which many noobs and ill-informed people fall.

I do NOT see anything wrong with thinking about bitcoin as an investment, so long as the assets of the "investor" are sufficiently diversified and the "investor" maintains some kind of strategy that accounts for the probable ongoing volatility factors.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1029
Guys we're gonna see 10k by winter for sure.

(Pages on this thread that is)
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
I don't know anyone who owns a single satoshi anymore.  All 5 of my friends have sold and won't be back when they saw they were down $60-120/coin, somewhere around $50k in investors.  The 2 guys who used to talk to me about btc think I am trying to scam them.  My neighbor used btc to get a discount on a new laptop; he bought them literally at the last possible second so that they price would not drop during the time that they were in his address.

There are 3 main classes of btc owners, IMO:
- the majority with less than 5 coins
- the middle with 5-300 coins
- the bigger guys

These drops are not about btc value.  They are not about price discovery.  It has nothing to do with TA.  It is just the big guys taking money from the smaller guys.  I have spent 7 months staring at the charts and watching buy/sells scroll buy.  Every drop is started by 200, 250, 300, 350 coins market sells, followed by more large sells, then the rest with 1-10 coins trying frantically not to lose money (which of course the always do).  The big guys have their buy orders a few percent off the top, buy back in.  Rinse and repeat day after day, as the price drops day after day, so the big guys can make their easy profits.  And then defend the 7k dump on Bitfinex as natural market movement.  And defend the big dump on BTC-e a few days later as a natural market movement.  And complain that people refuse to buy the price up for your next dump.

We are not in a bear market.  We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases.  And dumps are SO much easier.

The smug big guys in this thread like to say we are in accumulation phase.  No, we aren't.  We are in the "take the newbies' money" stage.  They are also the guys who encourage trading, instead of holding.  See, they don't make money from you when you only hold your coins, they need you on an exchange.  Goldman, etc., are replaced by anyone who holds 1 or 2k coins and can initiate dumps or walls.

Some of the big guys here are talking about $300 coins.  Good luck with that, I hope you achieve it.  Everyone except you will have sold and left btc.  Everyone else will have lost half their money and left the technology for good.  You will likely get $50, $25, $10, $1 coins, too.  A Pyrrhic victory.

This short term thinking drives the price down, hinders new adoption, and drives out anyone who has adopted recently.  Remember that when you see the charts that say btc adoption has stagnated: why would the average person hold coins that have dropped over 20% in the last 2 months and 60% in 9 months, for exactly no reason?  Why would a newbie even CONSIDER buying btc when he is guaranteed to lose money?

I am thinking about dropping out of trading myself.  I will keep a percentage of my coins in a cold wallet, sell the rest.  This crap happening in the market is unbearable.  I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.

And no, I haven't lost coins trading.  That is only because my trades rarely last over an hour.


Don't be stupid and just hold. This is a necessary test anyway as people who sell now would have lost the wealth at some point anyway. A fool and his money are soon parted Wink (Btw I don't trade. At all)

Yeah, I agree!!!   Sandia seems to have made a lot of stupid assumptions and misdescriptions of the facts and bitcoin dynamics.  It is hardly even worth responding to stupid-ass ideas about selling now and that BTC is doomed... blah blah blah..
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Unlike Bitcoin hodlers, they plan to *sell* their shares if the market's right.  If they have no plans to sell in your hypothetical, then you have a valid question--what the hell are they doing?

Collectig dividends (although Apple has been notorious for holding back dividends as reinvestment and cash reserves, IIRC).

The are paying a dividend now.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
ripple is the future, not bitcoin, you're all fools !!!
Glad to see you're well.
I'll never forget the crash after your last recommendation.
What do you say to the total inflation in ripple (fixed supply untill it's not)

Now trading at $0.005. How much was it trading before total inflation?
Just wanted to know. Thanks
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Unlike Bitcoin hodlers, they plan to *sell* their shares if the market's right.  If they have no plans to sell in your hypothetical, then you have a valid question--what the hell are they doing?

Collectig dividends (although Apple has been notorious for holding back dividends as reinvestment and cash reserves, IIRC).
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
2014! Year of bitcoin!

So who's first to admit that they were completely, utterly wrong?

A prudent bear will wait until 2015-01-01 to ask that question.  Wink
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
... going to continue to put upward BTC price pressures because they are going to want to get their money back and they are going to want to make a hefty profit, too.

The miners want the most they could get for their coin, regardless of how badly they need the money or what they paid for their gear.  The buyers want to pay the least for their coin, again regardless of all that stuff.  Absolutely no more pressure if the miners are mining at a loss.
A pawn shop won't pay you more for your wedding ring just because you *really* need the money.  It's likely to pay you less.

I think his point was that any miner who pays more for the kit than will allow for a positive ROI is obviously not under pressure to sell.  They are happy to pay above market for future bitcoin. They are clearly not requiring a positive return, so they must be finding utility in other factors.  They are clearly very interested in acquiring bitcoin, and there is no reason to think they will sell them, unless perhaps to introduce others to their hobby.

Your assumption is that their costs are higher than BTC cost. Why do you think so? I'd think the ones who are adding this enormous hashrate actually have a way of making profits, perhaps they have insanely cheap and efficient hardware.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
... going to continue to put upward BTC price pressures because they are going to want to get their money back and they are going to want to make a hefty profit, too.

The miners want the most they could get for their coin, regardless of how badly they need the money or what they paid for their gear.  The buyers want to pay the least for their coin, again regardless of all that stuff.  Absolutely no more pressure if the miners are mining at a loss.
A pawn shop won't pay you more for your wedding ring just because you *really* need the money.  It's likely to pay you less.

I think his point was that any miner who pays more for the kit than will allow for a positive ROI is obviously not under pressure to sell.  They are happy to pay above market for future bitcoin. They are clearly not requiring a positive return, so they must be finding utility in other factors.  They are clearly very interested in acquiring bitcoin, and there is no reason to think they will sell them, unless perhaps to introduce others to their hobby.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
...
The current prices are indicating that only the true believers are going to stay into the game.
...

This is very bearish, because bitcoin price needs new bagholders, with plenty of fiat and willing to buy high.
True believers have millions of bitcoins, and a fair amount of fiat, but way to little fiat to pump the price into another mania.

Very bad logic, and even inaccurate factual renditions.  It is pretty likely that few people or entities hold more than 100k coins.... you may have meant millions of dollars in bitcoins rather than millions of bitcoin.. because I believe the largest holder is satoshi (or at least the coins attributed to him of a little less than 1 million)... there is NOT enuff coins to go around for others to hold millions.

Surely people will hesitate to buy while the price seems to be going down... but once the trend reverses (and it will reverse someday - hopefully soon), then there will be buyers... The only problem is if the price goes (or stays) so low as to undermine confidence in BTC, then that would be another story..  To me, BTC prices and decline in prices seems quite far from the point to irreversibly undermine confidence in BTC....   In the coming months, we will see how these prices and perceived trends evolve, though.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
... going to continue to put upward BTC price pressures because they are going to want to get their money back and they are going to want to make a hefty profit, too.

The miners want the most they could get for their coin, regardless of how badly they need the money or what they paid for their gear.  The buyers want to pay the least for their coin, again regardless of all that stuff.  Absolutely no more pressure if the miners are mining at a loss.
A pawn shop won't pay you more for your wedding ring just because you *really* need the money.  It's likely to pay you less.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
ripple is the future, not bitcoin, you're all fools !!!
Glad to see you're well.
I'll never forget the crash after your last recommendation.
What do you say to the total inflation in ripple (fixed supply untill it's not)
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
No hardware is profitable now in mining, unless you can get it for FREE.  Not even Gen 3 hardware can ROI 35-40% back of hardware cost when they come out.   Or you have no cost for electricity and can get hardware at big discount because the capital investment for the equipment will never mine it back.

Descriptions like this seem to lend support to the inclination that many of these miners are continuing to invest in mining equipment and in mining operations that are going to cause pressures for BTC prices to go up - and the miners are likely banking upon BTC prices going up.  Maybe they are going to gamble wrong, but the rising difficulties is going to continue to put upward BTC price pressures because they are going to want to get their money back and they are going to want to make a hefty profit, too.
X7
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1009
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
While everyone is busy being right and fighting trivial points, we know the code has flaws, we know it needs to be fixed and worked on, we know it is in it's infancy and this will take time and dedication...

So how about we all just take a step back - Ignore all the FUD, realize that we finally have a way to legally circumvent the domination the banking world has had over us for a long.. long time... fucking +1 in my book.  Grin Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 4200
Merit: 4887
You're never too old to think young.
TROLL QUOTE DENIED

However wanted to address his comment...not quite sure how you equate price to being the defining factor of bitcoin's growth

I think it has to do with thinking of Bitcoin primarily as some kind of investment.

That's a trap into which many noobs and ill-informed people fall.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1441
All you bears and trolls might not believe on Santa Bitcoin, but he believes in you. He rewards the good little bitcoiners with whales that buy us lots of presents and punishes the bad ones with lumps of litecoin.

talking of litecoin.....
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1029
2014! Year of bitcoin!

So who's first to admit that they were completely, utterly wrong? Risto, any of the bulltards... waiting...

I'm sorry is it xmas already?
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
I don't know anyone who owns a single satoshi anymore.  All 5 of my friends have sold and won't be back when they saw they were down $60-120/coin, somewhere around $50k in investors.  The 2 guys who used to talk to me about btc think I am trying to scam them.  My neighbor used btc to get a discount on a new laptop; he bought them literally at the last possible second so that they price would not drop during the time that they were in his address.

There are 3 main classes of btc owners, IMO:
- the majority with less than 5 coins
- the middle with 5-300 coins
- the bigger guys

These drops are not about btc value.  They are not about price discovery.  It has nothing to do with TA.  It is just the big guys taking money from the smaller guys.  I have spent 7 months staring at the charts and watching buy/sells scroll buy.  Every drop is started by 200, 250, 300, 350 coins market sells, followed by more large sells, then the rest with 1-10 coins trying frantically not to lose money (which of course the always do).  The big guys have their buy orders a few percent off the top, buy back in.  Rinse and repeat day after day, as the price drops day after day, so the big guys can make their easy profits.  And then defend the 7k dump on Bitfinex as natural market movement.  And defend the big dump on BTC-e a few days later as a natural market movement.  And complain that people refuse to buy the price up for your next dump.

We are not in a bear market.  We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases.  And dumps are SO much easier.

The smug big guys in this thread like to say we are in accumulation phase.  No, we aren't.  We are in the "take the newbies' money" stage.  They are also the guys who encourage trading, instead of holding.  See, they don't make money from you when you only hold your coins, they need you on an exchange.  Goldman, etc., are replaced by anyone who holds 1 or 2k coins and can initiate dumps or walls.

Some of the big guys here are talking about $300 coins.  Good luck with that, I hope you achieve it.  Everyone except you will have sold and left btc.  Everyone else will have lost half their money and left the technology for good.  You will likely get $50, $25, $10, $1 coins, too.  A Pyrrhic victory.

This short term thinking drives the price down, hinders new adoption, and drives out anyone who has adopted recently.  Remember that when you see the charts that say btc adoption has stagnated: why would the average person hold coins that have dropped over 20% in the last 2 months and 60% in 9 months, for exactly no reason?  Why would a newbie even CONSIDER buying btc when he is guaranteed to lose money?

I am thinking about dropping out of trading myself.  I will keep a percentage of my coins in a cold wallet, sell the rest.  This crap happening in the market is unbearable.  I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.

And no, I haven't lost coins trading.  That is only because my trades rarely last over an hour.


This is also what I have been noticing. The invisible "bullying" is occurring and has been for at least a few weeks now. Smaller guys are being bent over on trades and then double fucked by the FUD on the forums. Its like knocking a guy down but instead of allowing his head to hit the floor blast him with a massive uppercut so that his head goes back up and then come down on him with a tremendous hammer fist to knock him back down and repeat. In the end what you have is a comatosed rag doll being ping ponged up and down. If you are a hodler, you will be psychologically attacked to shake the coins loose, if you are on the fence, the price and the FUD will most likely do you in. In this environment, what you have is a trapped bunch of rats who don't know whether to burn in a sinking ship or drown in the freezing water. As I've said before keep your wits about you. This is a game of destabililzation and you should choose wisely what your moves are going to be. Amateur traders...don't play this game, hodlers...hodl, the rest...sell and cry doomsday. Free country free choice.
Jump to: