The owner of a properly positioned portfolio shouldn't much care where the price goes, especially in the short term. Only the best or luckiest day traders can use this market as a reliable source of income. For most of us, it is a form of investment or savings. Leverage really takes away from your ability to wait out the fluctuations, so it should be used mostly in those rare circumstances where price have moved very far and rapidly out of the trading range and a partial snap-back is almost inevitable.
If you have an outside source of income and a positive cash flow, then almost anytime is a good time to buy. It's just a question of how much. Everyone wants to maximize our return on investment, but being too greedy or stingy can cause you to miss out on opportunities. This downward momentum we are currently experiencing shouldn't bother long term holders much because it is an opportunity to distribute coins to either more people (which will widen the user base) or smarter people (which will reduce volatility and make bitcoin more useful for transactions). In either case, it's good for the long term growth of the Bitcoin economy.
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 26023. (Read 26609636 times)
September 01, 2014, 05:25:38 PM
September 01, 2014, 05:23:56 PM
Always wondered why hodlers hang out in speculation.. makes no sense. What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery.
You have not wondered hard enough. How about they are gathering info in order to decide whether it is a good time to enter / buy moar?Some of us are here for shits and giggles...general entertainment/newses , confirmed newses only of course.... and/or the missus is sick of us talking
(and to watch the chickens running around with no heads)
full member
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Colletrix - Bridging the Physical and Virtual Worl
September 01, 2014, 05:19:06 PM
Always wondered why hodlers hang out in speculation.. makes no sense. What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery.
You have not wondered hard enough. How about they are gathering info in order to decide whether it is a good time to enter / buy moar? September 01, 2014, 05:10:50 PM
Someone earlier has been implying that the purpose of tarding is to make a profit. In using this fact to justify their scepticism of those who are trying to acquire as many BTC as possible.
You are missing the fact that a lot of people are trading to make a BTC profit, not a dollar profit.
You are missing the fact that a lot of people are trading to make a BTC profit, not a dollar profit.
September 01, 2014, 05:01:38 PM
Quote
Um, no. If the big guys (aka whales) would sell a lot we would see much better BTC liquidity and much lower prices. Most whales can afford to wait for the second half of 2016, when they'll dump big.
... yeah dump right before the next block halving ... sounds just like a nasty whale plan huh?
Not before, the next block halving is going to happen during the second half of 2016 and if the stage of the market at that time will be a slow bull market
(which is possible) it will only take another 2 - 3 months to reach mania stage, possibly up to 10k$, before the end of 2016.
But of course whales won't want suckers to believe that they'll be bagholders at 10k$, they'll want suckers to believe the price will soon reach 100k$.
people registered in 2013 are just so dumb, RIPPLE IS THE FUTURE
Ripple is what is left in the toilet after the shit drops
Better flush quickly then.
September 01, 2014, 05:01:01 PM
Quote
Um, no. If the big guys (aka whales) would sell a lot we would see much better BTC liquidity and much lower prices. Most whales can afford to wait for the second half of 2016, when they'll dump big.
... yeah dump right before the next block halving ... sounds just like a nasty whale plan huh?
Not before, the next block halving is going to happen during the second half of 2016 and if the stage of the market at that time will be a slow bull market
(which is possible) it will only take another 2 - 3 months to reach mania stage, possibly up to 10k$, before the end of 2016.
But of course whales won't want suckers to believe that they'll be bagholders at 10k$, they'll want suckers to believe the price will soon reach 100k$.
people registered in 2013 are just so dumb, RIPPLE IS THE FUTURE
Ripple is what is left in the toilet after the shit drops
September 01, 2014, 04:59:18 PM
September 01, 2014, 04:52:36 PM
Quote
Many people here are invested into bitcoins and always try to find excuses and wild theories why the BTCUSD exchange rate should be higher.
Let's not forget that the only reason people trade is to make profit. And right now this is not on the LONG side. It's that simple.
At least the short and mid term trends are fully DOWN and it's a bear market until it breaks the resistances we monitor.
Thank god for a voice of reason in here. So rare. Always wondered why hodlers hang out in speculation.. makes no sense. What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery. Let's not forget that the only reason people trade is to make profit. And right now this is not on the LONG side. It's that simple.
At least the short and mid term trends are fully DOWN and it's a bear market until it breaks the resistances we monitor.
September 01, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
Quote
Um, no. If the big guys (aka whales) would sell a lot we would see much better BTC liquidity and much lower prices. Most whales can afford to wait for the second half of 2016, when they'll dump big.
... yeah dump right before the next block halving ... sounds just like a nasty whale plan huh?
Not before, the next block halving is going to happen during the second half of 2016 and if the stage of the market at that time will be a slow bull market
(which is possible) it will only take another 2 - 3 months to reach mania stage, possibly up to 10k$, before the end of 2016.
But of course whales won't want suckers to believe that they'll be bagholders at 10k$, they'll want suckers to believe the price will soon reach 100k$.
September 01, 2014, 04:42:25 PM
Quote
That's the essence of human biodiversity. One can give whatever meaning he likes to a gesture and there's absolutely no problem what the other one thought what that gesture was. Same with signs, books, even money! It's all a matter of perspective. Keep your fiat. I'll stick with my BTCs. We'll meet at the end of the hall. I assure you we will leave with the same profit when the game ends. 
So you agree with me
Ok, happy that you changed your mind. You can't reduce money to just paper (or whatever is representing it). But of course I agree with you. That's because you're smarter than most of us here and you're choosing fiat over BTCs. What else could I do?
Nice sarcastic rebuttal about something completely different. Folly yet again. Stick to the topic young silly one.
The topic flipped from fiat to BTCs or vice versa to who's the smartest of us two. You won. Folly because I admitted my ignorance and bowed in front of your superior intelligence? Don't forget, you just typed it! I'm just a silly one (not so young though).
September 01, 2014, 04:41:10 PM
We are not in a bear market. We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases. And dumps are SO much easier.
Of course it is a bear market. If you are supposing that some wealthy entities are enforcing intentionally the bear market. Yes, very likely. But they can only do this as the demand is not strong enough. One other wealthy entity saying "Okay, fine. This price is more then a fair value, I will buy all coins offered for this price" bear market is done instantly. Why it did not happen yet? Are all big players (early adopters, institutional buyers, hedge funds, VCs etc.) are forming a conspiracy? All of them?
I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.
Bitcoin is a hardcore market. Let the bear market, or in your term "manipulation market" do what it wants to do. You can sell, you can buy, you can hold, but one thing you better should prevent - to get effected by it.
you are so right.
Many people here are invested into bitcoins and always try to find excuses and wild theories why the BTCUSD exchange rate should be higher.
Let's not forget that the only reason people trade is to make profit. And right now this is not on the LONG side. It's that simple.
At least the short and mid term trends are fully DOWN and it's a bear market until it breaks the resistances we monitor.
September 01, 2014, 04:40:15 PM
actually the odds changed back to a "normal" level regarding $500 at Oct. 1st. 50/50 if above or below is pretty much what you would expect at the current price level.
https://www.fairlay.com/predict/registered/new/bitcoin-price-500-on-oct-1st/
https://www.fairlay.com/predict/registered/new/bitcoin-price-500-on-oct-1st/
September 01, 2014, 04:39:17 PM
Quote
That's the essence of human biodiversity. One can give whatever meaning he likes to a gesture and there's absolutely no problem what the other one thought what that gesture was. Same with signs, books, even money! It's all a matter of perspective. Keep your fiat. I'll stick with my BTCs. We'll meet at the end of the hall. I assure you we will leave with the same profit when the game ends.
So you agree with me
Ok, happy that you changed your mind. You can't reduce money to just paper (or whatever is representing it). But of course I agree with you. That's because you're smarter than most of us here and you're choosing fiat over BTCs. What else could I do?
Nice sarcastic rebuttal about something completely different. Folly yet again. Stick to the topic young silly one.
September 01, 2014, 04:38:01 PM
I don't know anyone who owns a single satoshi anymore. All 5 of my friends have sold and won't be back when they saw they were down $60-120/coin, somewhere around $50k in investors. The 2 guys who used to talk to me about btc think I am trying to scam them. My neighbor used btc to get a discount on a new laptop; he bought them literally at the last possible second so that they price would not drop during the time that they were in his address.
There are 3 main classes of btc owners, IMO:
- the majority with less than 5 coins
- the middle with 5-300 coins
- the bigger guys
These drops are not about btc value. They are not about price discovery. It has nothing to do with TA. It is just the big guys taking money from the smaller guys. I have spent 7 months staring at the charts and watching buy/sells scroll buy. Every drop is started by 200, 250, 300, 350 coins market sells, followed by more large sells, then the rest with 1-10 coins trying frantically not to lose money (which of course the always do). The big guys have their buy orders a few percent off the top, buy back in. Rinse and repeat day after day, as the price drops day after day, so the big guys can make their easy profits. And then defend the 7k dump on Bitfinex as natural market movement. And defend the big dump on BTC-e a few days later as a natural market movement. And complain that people refuse to buy the price up for your next dump.
We are not in a bear market. We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases. And dumps are SO much easier.
The smug big guys in this thread like to say we are in accumulation phase. No, we aren't. We are in the "take the newbies' money" stage. They are also the guys who encourage trading, instead of holding. See, they don't make money from you when you only hold your coins, they need you on an exchange. Goldman, etc., are replaced by anyone who holds 1 or 2k coins and can initiate dumps or walls.
Some of the big guys here are talking about $300 coins. Good luck with that, I hope you achieve it. Everyone except you will have sold and left btc. Everyone else will have lost half their money and left the technology for good. You will likely get $50, $25, $10, $1 coins, too. A Pyrrhic victory.
This short term thinking drives the price down, hinders new adoption, and drives out anyone who has adopted recently. Remember that when you see the charts that say btc adoption has stagnated: why would the average person hold coins that have dropped over 20% in the last 2 months and 60% in 9 months, for exactly no reason? Why would a newbie even CONSIDER buying btc when he is guaranteed to lose money?
I am thinking about dropping out of trading myself. I will keep a percentage of my coins in a cold wallet, sell the rest. This crap happening in the market is unbearable. I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.
And no, I haven't lost coins trading. That is only because my trades rarely last over an hour.
There are 3 main classes of btc owners, IMO:
- the majority with less than 5 coins
- the middle with 5-300 coins
- the bigger guys
These drops are not about btc value. They are not about price discovery. It has nothing to do with TA. It is just the big guys taking money from the smaller guys. I have spent 7 months staring at the charts and watching buy/sells scroll buy. Every drop is started by 200, 250, 300, 350 coins market sells, followed by more large sells, then the rest with 1-10 coins trying frantically not to lose money (which of course the always do). The big guys have their buy orders a few percent off the top, buy back in. Rinse and repeat day after day, as the price drops day after day, so the big guys can make their easy profits. And then defend the 7k dump on Bitfinex as natural market movement. And defend the big dump on BTC-e a few days later as a natural market movement. And complain that people refuse to buy the price up for your next dump.
We are not in a bear market. We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases. And dumps are SO much easier.
The smug big guys in this thread like to say we are in accumulation phase. No, we aren't. We are in the "take the newbies' money" stage. They are also the guys who encourage trading, instead of holding. See, they don't make money from you when you only hold your coins, they need you on an exchange. Goldman, etc., are replaced by anyone who holds 1 or 2k coins and can initiate dumps or walls.
Some of the big guys here are talking about $300 coins. Good luck with that, I hope you achieve it. Everyone except you will have sold and left btc. Everyone else will have lost half their money and left the technology for good. You will likely get $50, $25, $10, $1 coins, too. A Pyrrhic victory.
This short term thinking drives the price down, hinders new adoption, and drives out anyone who has adopted recently. Remember that when you see the charts that say btc adoption has stagnated: why would the average person hold coins that have dropped over 20% in the last 2 months and 60% in 9 months, for exactly no reason? Why would a newbie even CONSIDER buying btc when he is guaranteed to lose money?
I am thinking about dropping out of trading myself. I will keep a percentage of my coins in a cold wallet, sell the rest. This crap happening in the market is unbearable. I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.
And no, I haven't lost coins trading. That is only because my trades rarely last over an hour.
Um, no. If the big guys (aka whales) would sell a lot we would see much better BTC liquidity and much lower prices. Most whales can afford to wait for the second half of 2016, when they'll dump big.
September 01, 2014, 04:35:46 PM
Quote
That's the essence of human biodiversity. One can give whatever meaning he likes to a gesture and there's absolutely no problem what the other one thought what that gesture was. Same with signs, books, even money! It's all a matter of perspective. Keep your fiat. I'll stick with my BTCs. We'll meet at the end of the hall. I assure you we will leave with the same profit when the game ends.
So you agree with me
Ok, happy that you changed your mind. You can't reduce money to just paper (or whatever is representing it). But of course I agree with you. That's because you're smarter than most of us here and you're choosing fiat over BTCs. What else could I do?
September 01, 2014, 04:33:55 PM
We are not in a bear market. We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases. And dumps are SO much easier.
Of course it is a bear market. If you are supposing that some wealthy entities are enforcing intentionally the bear market - yes, very likely. But they can only do this as the demand is not strong enough. One other wealthy entity saying "Okay, fine. This price is more then a fair value, I will buy all coins offered for this price" bear market is done instantly. Why it did not happen yet? Are all big players (early adopters, institutional buyers, hedge fonds, VCs etc.) are forming a conspiracy? All of them?
I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.
Bitcoin is a hardcore market. Let the bear market, or in your term "manipulation market" do what it wants to do. You can sell, you can buy, you can hold, you can trade but one thing you better should prevent - to get effected by it.
September 01, 2014, 04:28:53 PM
Quote
That's the essence of human biodiversity. One can give whatever meaning he likes to a gesture and there's absolutely no problem what the other one thought what that gesture was. Same with signs, books, even money! It's all a matter of perspective. Keep your fiat. I'll stick with my BTCs. We'll meet at the end of the hall. I assure you we will leave with the same profit when the game ends.
So you agree with me
Ok, happy that you changed your mind. You can't reduce money to just paper (or whatever is representing it). 
September 01, 2014, 04:24:04 PM
Quote
If this doesn't convince you, I really don't know what will...
You can't reduce the function and meaning to whatever is representing just that. Handshake is just two hands connecting in a certain way, but we add meaning to it do we not? What if I reduced that to nerves, muscles, fat, movement, etc and told you thats all there is to it! It's pointless! It carries no meaning at all. Let's take a statue, just a rock with a certain form, but still just rock! Meaningless!
Obviously you would disagree and explain to me that there is more to it than that! See your folly? Now stop with the nonsense.
Of course it can be explained - I just posted a link on the previous page go look at The Hidden secrets of money and research it for yourself.. Do not let someone's zealous libertarian outlook on a frustrating problem bring a negative knee jerk reaction.
You will miss the point
September 01, 2014, 04:22:37 PM
Quote
If this doesn't convince you, I really don't know what will...
You can't reduce the function and meaning to whatever is representing just that. Handshake is just two hands connecting in a certain way, but we add meaning to it do we not? What if I reduced that to nerves, muscles, fat, movement, etc and told you thats all there is to it! It's pointless! It carries no meaning at all. Let's take a statue, just a rock with a certain form, but still just rock! Meaningless!
Obviously you would disagree and explain to me that there is more to it than that! See your folly? Now stop with the nonsense.
Hell I could add bitcoin to that nonsense, its just ones and zeroes! Meaningless electrons!
That's the essence of human biodiversity. One can give whatever meaning he likes to a gesture and there's absolutely no problem what the other one thought what that gesture was. Same with signs, books, even money! It's all a matter of perspective. Keep your fiat. I'll stick with my BTCs. We'll meet at the end of the hall. I assure you we will leave with the same profit when the game ends.
September 01, 2014, 04:20:34 PM
I don't know anyone who owns a single satoshi anymore. All 5 of my friends have sold and won't be back when they saw they were down $60-120/coin, somewhere around $50k in investors. The 2 guys who used to talk to me about btc think I am trying to scam them. My neighbor used btc to get a discount on a new laptop; he bought them literally at the last possible second so that they price would not drop during the time that they were in his address.
There are 3 main classes of btc owners, IMO:
- the majority with less than 5 coins
- the middle with 5-300 coins
- the bigger guys
These drops are not about btc value. They are not about price discovery. It has nothing to do with TA. It is just the big guys taking money from the smaller guys. I have spent 7 months staring at the charts and watching buy/sells scroll buy. Every drop is started by 200, 250, 300, 350 coins market sells, followed by more large sells, then the rest with 1-10 coins trying frantically not to lose money (which of course the always do). The big guys have their buy orders a few percent off the top, buy back in. Rinse and repeat day after day, as the price drops day after day, so the big guys can make their easy profits. And then defend the 7k dump on Bitfinex as natural market movement. And defend the big dump on BTC-e a few days later as a natural market movement. And complain that people refuse to buy the price up for your next dump.
We are not in a bear market. We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases. And dumps are SO much easier.
The smug big guys in this thread like to say we are in accumulation phase. No, we aren't. We are in the "take the newbies' money" stage. They are also the guys who encourage trading, instead of holding. See, they don't make money from you when you only hold your coins, they need you on an exchange. Goldman, etc., are replaced by anyone who holds 1 or 2k coins and can initiate dumps or walls.
Some of the big guys here are talking about $300 coins. Good luck with that, I hope you achieve it. Everyone except you will have sold and left btc. Everyone else will have lost half their money and left the technology for good. You will likely get $50, $25, $10, $1 coins, too. A Pyrrhic victory.
This short term thinking drives the price down, hinders new adoption, and drives out anyone who has adopted recently. Remember that when you see the charts that say btc adoption has stagnated: why would the average person hold coins that have dropped over 20% in the last 2 months and 60% in 9 months, for exactly no reason? Why would a newbie even CONSIDER buying btc when he is guaranteed to lose money?
I am thinking about dropping out of trading myself. I will keep a percentage of my coins in a cold wallet, sell the rest. This crap happening in the market is unbearable. I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.
And no, I haven't lost coins trading. That is only because my trades rarely last over an hour.
There are 3 main classes of btc owners, IMO:
- the majority with less than 5 coins
- the middle with 5-300 coins
- the bigger guys
These drops are not about btc value. They are not about price discovery. It has nothing to do with TA. It is just the big guys taking money from the smaller guys. I have spent 7 months staring at the charts and watching buy/sells scroll buy. Every drop is started by 200, 250, 300, 350 coins market sells, followed by more large sells, then the rest with 1-10 coins trying frantically not to lose money (which of course the always do). The big guys have their buy orders a few percent off the top, buy back in. Rinse and repeat day after day, as the price drops day after day, so the big guys can make their easy profits. And then defend the 7k dump on Bitfinex as natural market movement. And defend the big dump on BTC-e a few days later as a natural market movement. And complain that people refuse to buy the price up for your next dump.
We are not in a bear market. We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases. And dumps are SO much easier.
The smug big guys in this thread like to say we are in accumulation phase. No, we aren't. We are in the "take the newbies' money" stage. They are also the guys who encourage trading, instead of holding. See, they don't make money from you when you only hold your coins, they need you on an exchange. Goldman, etc., are replaced by anyone who holds 1 or 2k coins and can initiate dumps or walls.
Some of the big guys here are talking about $300 coins. Good luck with that, I hope you achieve it. Everyone except you will have sold and left btc. Everyone else will have lost half their money and left the technology for good. You will likely get $50, $25, $10, $1 coins, too. A Pyrrhic victory.
This short term thinking drives the price down, hinders new adoption, and drives out anyone who has adopted recently. Remember that when you see the charts that say btc adoption has stagnated: why would the average person hold coins that have dropped over 20% in the last 2 months and 60% in 9 months, for exactly no reason? Why would a newbie even CONSIDER buying btc when he is guaranteed to lose money?
I am thinking about dropping out of trading myself. I will keep a percentage of my coins in a cold wallet, sell the rest. This crap happening in the market is unbearable. I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.
And no, I haven't lost coins trading. That is only because my trades rarely last over an hour.
Don't be stupid and just hold. This is a necessary test anyway as people who sell now would have lost the wealth at some point anyway. A fool and his money are soon parted
(Btw I don't trade. At all) Jump to: