Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 27010.

Erdogan

legendary

Activity: 1512

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Quote from: ShroomsKit on June 26, 2014, 07:37:15 AM

Quote from: h3speros on June 26, 2014, 07:34:13 AM

Has this been here already? Just a rumor, but still this is HUGE.

http://nypost.com/2014/06/25/its-david-vs-goliath-in-race-to-launch-nys-first-regulated-bitcoin-exchange/

No one cares.

They have to show the webpage, the KYC standard, the fees, the ease to deposit and withdraw, and that the matching and everything in fact works. Only then it will be interesting.

ChartBuddy

legendary

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

JayJuanGee

legendary

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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: Asrael999 on June 26, 2014, 09:24:02 AM

Quote from: ShroomsKit_Disgrace on June 26, 2014, 09:11:51 AM

Reading about mmitech issue makes me wonder...

How do the Muslims deal with banks? Interest = 0%??

serious question.

If I understand it correctly , Muslims are not permitted to earn interest on money, this is "Riba" and is forbidden.
What they can do is receive rent for an asset they own - so a Muslim may buy an apartment, a physical good, and receive rent for allowing someone else to use it.
Given that bitcoin is not a physical thing on which one can earn a return I would have thought it was a bit of a grey area for Islamic finance anyway. Equities are ok as are securitizations as in those you buy the right to a series of cashflows that derive from a real asset, bitcoin hmm, tricky.

Yeah... the IRS rule clarification may have helped to declare bitcoin as property rather than as a currency... but in any event it is very conflicting to weave through the incorporation of such a practice in the modern world while maintaining various financial investments.

empowering

legendary

Activity: 1078

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Quote from: Torque on June 26, 2014, 10:42:44 AM

Quote from: N12 on June 26, 2014, 10:34:24 AM

Quote from: mmitech on June 26, 2014, 10:25:48 AM

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/26/bitcoin-bitstamp/

Interesting tidbit for many here:

"They make the obvious prediction that the Bitcoin will be sold for under-market value"

Are you guys going to be flaming the Bitstamp owners now?

Can someone on this subforum answer this one simple question, instead of completely ignoring it:

Q: In a closed door auction, where no one outside of it will know what the selling price was, how can Bitstamp, you, or anyone else know what the winning price was?

And don't just reply "The selling price will get leaked out" or some silly crap, as we know hearsay FUD is completely unreliable.

Roll Eyes

Why is it so improbable that the price gets leaked by one party or another? (if you trust them is another thing) or that the USM will at some point publish/account for at least the price that they acheived for the total auction/lots ? (which one would have thought would become public information via FOIA) They will not publish the whos but they might publish/need to account for the how much at least, but not the identity of the buyers)

oda.krell

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Activity: 1470

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Quote from: Erdogan on June 26, 2014, 10:52:40 AM

Quote from: oda.krell on June 26, 2014, 05:19:50 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on June 26, 2014, 05:10:09 AM

Quote from: oda.krell on June 26, 2014, 04:40:47 AM

Why Bitcoin’s Scoring in Argentina
Now this is the kind of news I like to read. [ ... ]

What I see is a marketing push by SecondMarket and Pantera to convince Argentinians that bitcoin is a hedge against inflation (!) and therefore they should invest in SMBIT and PBP. Which are not doing well in the US, meh?

It is Neo & Bee for Argentina, only with marketing and muscle upped an order of magnitude. And not managed by a small-time crook.

You conflate the 'investment opportunity to shady types' aspect with the 'additionals options through technology' one. Ignore, if you will, all of that article except for the localbitcoins aspect.

Quote

There’s no way for sure to measure the uptake of bitcoins in any country, but the evidence suggests Argentina is outpacing most. The number of traders listed on Local Bitcoins Buenos Aires is often three times that of Manhattan, for example, and the Fundacion Bitcoin Argentina is known to run the largest bitcoin meetup in the world.

You will then still (I suspect) argue that it's only a marketing ploy. I doubt that, though. If Argentinians are as cynical about promises as I got the impression they are*, no Pantera marketing push was the cause for this uptake in usage. It's more likely that the investment opportunity arose from the usage increase.

* source: Argentinian friend. Extremely skeptical of Bitcoin, though Cheesy

It looks like there is uptake. Good article (but could of course be made up). Even with good progress, bitcoin will still be small when the peso hyperinflates. Only the people able and ready to act quickly can frontrun the demise of the peso.

True. Possible I got a bit too excited about it. There's just something... satisfying... to see Bitcoin used for perhaps the strongest reason that cryptos should exist - not as a speculative vehicle, not to avoid inflation (booh!, yeah I know), not to minimize transaction costs (important, but not as vital as the next point) - but to allow the near instantaneous transfer of ownership information & rights without distortion.

Erdogan

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1005

Quote from: ShroomsKit on June 26, 2014, 07:13:13 AM

Also i wonder you mention below or above market price. Is that the price the minute the auction closes?The price it was when the bids had to be in? The price on Stamp or somewhere else? Who decides what the market price actually is?

Could it be that noone really has a clue?

Absoulutely true. Bitcointalk posters are the experts, you know. Does anyone have respect for a so called wall street professional who hasn't got around to buy in already?

Richy_T

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Activity: 2576

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1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Quote from: Cassius on June 26, 2014, 10:50:12 AM

Quote from: Richy_T on June 26, 2014, 10:46:26 AM

Quote from: Cassius on June 26, 2014, 10:38:22 AM

Done properly there's a big advantage. Since you're effectively hire-purchasing a house, you cannot ever be in negative equity. Naturally, most banks don't like the idea of shifting liability onto themselves, hence the interest-driven model prevails elsewhere.

I am sure it's not quite as simple as that. At the least the "bank" will charge extra to cover their risk. Then your house could still be worth less than you paid for it when all is done. I bet there's some hefty penalty clause for early termination too.

"Properly" meaning according to the spirit of the law. Ijara mortgages tend to be slightly more expensive than regular ones, in any case - unless you are foreclosed, I imagine. I don't know the details, but they're not competitive financially with standard mortgages.

Seems to me like the spirit of the law is already pretty heavily subverted just by making a profit from lending money. You can dress it up how you like but it's all the same when you peek under the covers. What there appears to be is a heavy effort to conform to the letter of the law.

N12

donator

Activity: 1610

Merit: 1010

Quote from: oda.krell on June 26, 2014, 10:49:57 AM

Quote from: N12 on June 26, 2014, 10:41:16 AM

It does line up with the fact that noone has been buying Bitcoins at SecondMarket for almost two months. See: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gbtc-bitcoin-investment-trust-observer-337486

Where do you get the 2 months from?

I understand that the 2 digit changes are just some rounding errors, but what about the 3 digit entry on June 3rd?

It wasn't meant literally, but comparatively. Barry Shillbert better do some quality shilling … perhaps his auction syndicate was a sore attempt at that? Cheesy

Quote from: Torque on June 26, 2014, 10:47:59 AM

Quoted for truth. Yeah, I'm starting to seriously dislike the "Speculation" subforum because the participants want to completely ignore reality in favor of some made up fantasy.

Agreed, many here just seem intent to lend importance where there is none, meanwhile making up things that suit them and disregarding evidence.

Cassius

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Activity: 1764

Merit: 1031

Quote from: Torque on June 26, 2014, 10:42:44 AM

Quote from: N12 on June 26, 2014, 10:34:24 AM

Quote from: mmitech on June 26, 2014, 10:25:48 AM

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/26/bitcoin-bitstamp/

Interesting tidbit for many here:

"They make the obvious prediction that the Bitcoin will be sold for under-market value"

Are you guys going to be flaming the Bitstamp owners now?

Can someone on this subforum answer this one simple question, instead of completely ignoring it:

Q: In a closed door auction, where no one outside of it will know what the selling price was, how can Bitstamp, you, or anyone else know what the winning price was?

And don't just reply "The selling price will get leaked out" or some silly crap, as we know hearsay FUD is completely unreliable.

Roll Eyes

Oh, go on, I'll have a stab then.
Freedom of information request. Would take some time and may not be granted, but it's been mentioned by USMS.
Buyers may want to boast about their new purchase for one reason or another, perhaps to stabilise the market or show how clever they were to make a theoretical profit. Again, not a given but entirely possible.

Erdogan

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1005

Quote from: oda.krell on June 26, 2014, 05:19:50 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on June 26, 2014, 05:10:09 AM

Quote from: oda.krell on June 26, 2014, 04:40:47 AM

Why Bitcoin’s Scoring in Argentina
Now this is the kind of news I like to read. [ ... ]

What I see is a marketing push by SecondMarket and Pantera to convince Argentinians that bitcoin is a hedge against inflation (!) and therefore they should invest in SMBIT and PBP. Which are not doing well in the US, meh?

It is Neo & Bee for Argentina, only with marketing and muscle upped an order of magnitude. And not managed by a small-time crook.

You conflate the 'investment opportunity to shady types' aspect with the 'additionals options through technology' one. Ignore, if you will, all of that article except for the localbitcoins aspect.

Quote

There’s no way for sure to measure the uptake of bitcoins in any country, but the evidence suggests Argentina is outpacing most. The number of traders listed on Local Bitcoins Buenos Aires is often three times that of Manhattan, for example, and the Fundacion Bitcoin Argentina is known to run the largest bitcoin meetup in the world.

You will then still (I suspect) argue that it's only a marketing ploy. I doubt that, though. If Argentinians are as cynical about promises as I got the impression they are*, no Pantera marketing push was the cause for this uptake in usage. It's more likely that the investment opportunity arose from the usage increase.

* source: Argentinian friend. Extremely skeptical of Bitcoin, though Cheesy

It looks like there is uptake. Good article (but could of course be made up). Even with good progress, bitcoin will still be small when the peso hyperinflates. Only the people able and ready to act quickly can frontrun the demise of the peso.

Cassius

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1031

Quote from: Richy_T on June 26, 2014, 10:46:26 AM

Quote from: Cassius on June 26, 2014, 10:38:22 AM

Done properly there's a big advantage. Since you're effectively hire-purchasing a house, you cannot ever be in negative equity. Naturally, most banks don't like the idea of shifting liability onto themselves, hence the interest-driven model prevails elsewhere.

I am sure it's not quite as simple as that. At the least the "bank" will charge extra to cover their risk. Then your house could still be worth less than you paid for it when all is done. I bet there's some hefty penalty clause for early termination too.

"Properly" meaning according to the spirit of the law. Ijara mortgages tend to be slightly more expensive than regular ones, in any case - unless you are foreclosed, I imagine. I don't know the details, but they're not competitive financially with standard mortgages.

oda.krell

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1007

Quote from: N12 on June 26, 2014, 10:41:16 AM

Quote from: N12 on June 26, 2014, 10:34:24 AM

Quote from: mmitech on June 26, 2014, 10:25:48 AM

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/26/bitcoin-bitstamp/

Interesting tidbit for many here:

"They make the obvious prediction that the Bitcoin will be sold for under-market value"

Are you guys going to be flaming the Bitstamp owners now?

It does line up with the fact that noone has been buying Bitcoins at SecondMarket for almost two months. See: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gbtc-bitcoin-investment-trust-observer-337486

Where do you get the 2 months from?

I understand that the 2 digit changes are just some rounding errors, but what about the 3 digit entry on June 3rd?

Richy_T

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 2267

1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Quote from: Richy_T on June 26, 2014, 10:46:26 AM

I am sure it's not quite as simple as that. At the least the "bank" will charge extra to cover their risk. Then your house could still be worth less than you paid for it when all is done. I bet there's some hefty penalty clause for early termination too.

http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewarticle.php?articleID=1291

Quote

If the home-buying client later decides that he can no longer afford the rental, both the HSBC and Ahli United `ijara contracts require that he or she must guarantee to repay the cash sum initially provided by the bank to fund the purchase of the property. In those cases where the property has to be sold to achieve this, the possibility arises that, if property prices have fallen in the meantime, the sale proceeds may not be sufficient to repay the financed amount. In this case, by requiring the client to make up any shortfall to the bank, the possibility of "negative equity" arises, a position in which the client owes more to the bank than the property is worth.
Clause 6.3 (d) of the United Bank of Kuwait `ijara agreement from 1998 provides an example of the way in which banks seek to protect themselves from capital loss. Here, the bank is allowed to sell the client's property in the event of default and to subtract such amounts as are necessary from both the proceeds of sale and the on-account payments made by the client in order to protect the bank from a loss on its investment.

tarmi

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Activity: 1232

Merit: 1011

Quote from: Nicholas-Carraway on June 26, 2014, 10:34:29 AM

I'm still seeing a bearish wedge.

+1

Parazyd

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 587

Space Lord

Will the winning bidders be announced publicly?

Torque

legendary

Activity: 3780

Merit: 5429

Quote from: N12 on June 26, 2014, 10:43:58 AM

I don't expect the price to be released anytime soon, if ever. It'll probably be irrelevant for the purposes of market sentiment, that's why it is so astonishing to me that people are seriously debating this, but I won't say no to joining the fun. Cheesy

Quoted for truth. Yeah, I'm starting to seriously dislike the "Speculation" subforum because the participants want to completely ignore reality in favor of some made up fantasy.

I'll probably be leaving it behind sometime soon, as it's usefulness has almost completely run it's course for me.

Quote from: Torque on June 26, 2014, 10:42:44 AM

Again? Where did I avoid answering one of your questions? I'd like to do so now, sorry if I missed it.

Edit: Oh, and I wasn't referring to you Blitz. I meant others on this sub that just want to flat out ignore that question, because it suits them to completely just ignore it and continue the silly debate ad nauseum.

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