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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 27261. (Read 26634254 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
No block for 30 minutes.  Huh

Could it be we're starting to reach hashrate saturation?

what does "hashrate saturation" mean? (serious question)

I'd imagine he's talking about the hashrate getting to a level where its not profitable to mine. However people mine at a loss for a number of reasons so its almost impossible to relate to Bitcoin in this context.

got it. thanks.

I was thinking something more complex/strange.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
No block for 30 minutes.  Huh

Could it be we're starting to reach hashrate saturation?

what does "hashrate saturation" mean? (serious question)

I'd imagine he's talking about the hashrate getting to a level where its not profitable to mine. However people mine at a loss for a number of reasons so its almost impossible to relate to Bitcoin in this context.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
No block for 30 minutes.  Huh

Ghash conducting withholding drills.  No cause for alarm.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005

... because it is the government who is engaged in these activities. The name of the action depends on who is doing the action, not on the content of the action ...


I know, equality before the law, that was cancelled some time ago.
legendary
Activity: 3934
Merit: 11405
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
My point is that ponzi scheme is NOT appropriate for either.  The government and its money system is much more complicated than some simple operation to rob the money of the poor for the rich, even though those kinds of dynamics that you describe are going on in the government.. NONETHELESS governmental systems remain much more complicated and nuanced as compared to a ponzi scheme which is generally a smaller operation designed smoke and mirrors to deceive.... surely there is some deception that is going on within government systems, as you suggest.. but ponzi scheme is NOT the correct concept and to attempt to simplify the fit into such a narrow definition is to oversimplify the various purposes and services of government....


Don't get me wrong, I am all for reform, and I am all for removing some of the corrupting influences of government and the disruption that bitcoin will be providing to potentially put more power into the hands of the people.

At the same time, I would NOT be so deluded as to believe that the government is going to disappear in some variations of its current form in any time in the very near future... transitions of systems take time... and certainly, we will be witnessing some of bitcoin's effects on various governmental and monetary institutions in the coming years.

Yes, Fiat is NOT a Ponzi and Taxes are NOT theft, because it is the government who is engaged in these activities. The name of the action depends on who is doing the action, not on the content of the action - we've been through this before, haven't we? Wink

Euphemisms are being used by our culture to obfuscate and conceal the graveness of many of societies conditions. And you've fallen for it.

St. George Carlin will explain way better than me


Yes, I get the point that calling things or practices something other than what they are can be foolish.. and euphemism can be foolish, and yes there are a lot of foolish contradictions in this world in which we live and the way that various social and governmental systems are set up are also foolish.

Nonetheless, we are NOT going to make a whole heck of a lot of progress in analyzing, understanding and/or fixing the ways of the world by calling the government and its agents and institutions either thieves or a product of a ponzi scheme.  These systems are much more innuendoed than that.

There are good people and well intentioned people carrying out a variety of governmental services, and there are also corrupt and corrupting practices and influences and behaviors within governmental institutions.. but the government has NOT been designed purposefully to engage in thievery nor as a ponzi scheme nor are the various governmental systems something that can be merely abandoned and start anew, believe it or NOT.  Even though some people use the government and its various related institutions for variou kinds of selfish and thievery purposes, it was NOT designed for such (even though there are many flaws)....

AND, yes, hopefully, some day soon good people can find various democracizing purposes for bitcoin to provide positive influences to correct some of these negative and self-serving aspects of government.





legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
No block for 30 minutes.  Huh

Could it be we're starting to reach hashrate saturation?

what does "hashrate saturation" mean? (serious question)
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Cmon guys its 10 mins average, people don't start getting worried when we find 3-4 in 20 mins.

Surprised to see Bitfinex spike a good 12-13 above Stamp. Volume is becoming a little anemic but we entered this consolidation bullish so I think we should leave it that way too.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
No block for 30 minutes.  Huh

This happens quite often, just normal.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
No block for 30 minutes.  Huh

http://blockchain.info/block-index/434046/000000000000000030b6d35803feb042cf97983eeb19ea6313fc62bc1a0e1db1

better now? Smiley

edit: I've witnessed much longer delay in block solving.. it usually happens when I'm transferring found to my cold wallet.

edit2: related https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/six-blocks-in-11-minutes-bitcoin-on-steroids-646519 (6 blocks in 11 min)
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
No block for 30 minutes.  Huh

Could it be we're starting to reach hashrate saturation?
legendary
Activity: 1178
Merit: 1014
Hodling since 2011.®
No block for 30 minutes.  Huh
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1163
Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos
My point is that ponzi scheme is NOT appropriate for either.  The government and its money system is much more complicated than some simple operation to rob the money of the poor for the rich, even though those kinds of dynamics that you describe are going on in the government.. NONETHELESS governmental systems remain much more complicated and nuanced as compared to a ponzi scheme which is generally a smaller operation designed smoke and mirrors to deceive.... surely there is some deception that is going on within government systems, as you suggest.. but ponzi scheme is NOT the correct concept and to attempt to simplify the fit into such a narrow definition is to oversimplify the various purposes and services of government....


Don't get me wrong, I am all for reform, and I am all for removing some of the corrupting influences of government and the disruption that bitcoin will be providing to potentially put more power into the hands of the people.

At the same time, I would NOT be so deluded as to believe that the government is going to disappear in some variations of its current form in any time in the very near future... transitions of systems take time... and certainly, we will be witnessing some of bitcoin's effects on various governmental and monetary institutions in the coming years.

Yes, Fiat is NOT a Ponzi and Taxes are NOT theft, because it is the government who is engaged in these activities. The name of the action depends on who is doing the action, not on the content of the action - we've been through this before, haven't we? Wink

Euphemisms are being used by our culture to obfuscate and conceal the graveness of many of societies conditions. And you've fallen for it.

St. George Carlin will explain way better than me
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
Why arbitrage is not sufficient to align prices on main exchanges ? Price difference is 20$ between bitfinex and btc-e!

Data for USD weighted average
exchange   volume %   volume ฿   last price
Bitfinex   37.38%   7,856.61   661.11 USD
Bitstamp   27.71%   5,824.30   651.21 USD
BTC-e   19.60%   4,119.46   644.01 USD
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
Warning Warning.

Mat the Cat has closed his longs...this is a good contrarian indicator.

buy buy buy!
Shocked
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007
Well anyway I don't know why people are so blind that they can't see fiat is the Ponzi and bitcoin is the way out of the Ponzi.



I herd you don't like Ponzi so we created a new Ponzi to get you out of Ponzi


CoolStoryBro:  

hehehehehe...... Smiley    

Even though you are being a little ridiculous with your comment, above, I believe that your comment highlights a decent point.

Accordingly, I would clarify that neither bitcoin nor fiat is a ponzi scheme...

To say that either bitcoin or fiat is a ponzi scheme is to overly simplify and to misapply the concept of ponzi scheme.  Neither fiat nor bitcoin is so simple an arrangement - there are too many factors influencing each.


Fiat is a ponzi scheme in the sense that the monetary system works in a way where all money in existence is created in the form of Debt - with interest. So you have to constantly grow the monetary base to repay the interests of the previously created money with new money that is itself more debt and requires more interest which requires more money as debt etc... So it truly is a Ponzi and can only collapse at some point but it is benefiting only the few that control the global monetary system. A fiat monetary system that is not a ponzi could be created by emitting the FIAT directly and without liability to this emission, the counter party of the fiat being the work of the participants in the economy. Yet it has not been designed in this way but has been designed in a way that gradually enslaves the majority of the population and shifts most of the wealth in invisible hands.

On the other hand bitcoin is not a ponzi because it is an asset that is not the liability of someone else. If you have a bitcoin, nobody owes you anything about it. You just have your bitcoin and nobody else is involved in this position. It's like gold. Who could say that gold is a ponzi ?

A ponzi implies centralisation and fraud. Centralised fraud is used to influence the expectations of the investors based on the creation of false past and present returns. The money of new investors is used to hide the fraud by actually paying these false returns to first investors instead of giving new entrants their fair share in assets.

Bitcoin does not have returns - it only appreciates or depreciates based on its current utility and anticipated-utility in the future.
Bitcoin does not have centralisation that can hide parts of the information about it's use and nature - everything is in the open in the blockchain.

It's simply an asset that can crash or explode higher without counter party liability.

Therefore, using the word ponzi for the global monetary FIAT system is appropriate. Yet using the word ponzi for the bitcoin ledger system is not appropriate.

My point is that ponzi scheme is NOT appropriate for either.  The government and its money system is much more complicated than some simple operation to rob the money of the poor for the rich, even though those kinds of dynamics that you describe are going on in the government.. NONETHELESS governmental systems remain much more complicated and nuanced as compared to a ponzi scheme which is generally a smaller operation designed smoke and mirrors to deceive.... surely there is some deception that is going on within government systems, as you suggest.. but ponzi scheme is NOT the correct concept and to attempt to simplify the fit into such a narrow definition is to oversimplify the various purposes and services of government....


Don't get me wrong, I am all for reform, and I am all for removing some of the corrupting influences of government and the disruption that bitcoin will be providing to potentially put more power into the hands of the people.

At the same time, I would NOT be so deluded as to believe that the government is going to disappear in some variations of its current form in any time in the very near future... transitions of systems take time... and certainly, we will be witnessing some of bitcoin's effects on various governmental and monetary institutions in the coming years.

Completely agree.

But you're going to be feeling a bit lonely in here, with a nuanced position towards state and government like that.

At least a vocal subsection of bitcoin enthusiasts are strongly enough anti government and/or anti central bank controlled money flow that "ponzi" would be one of the nicer words in their inventory for it Smiley


legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008
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