Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 28268.

jl2012

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Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 12:11:16 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on April 11, 2014, 12:05:21 PM

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

Jorge, Danny may have ponzi'd

I don't think he did. To me it looks like just incompetence and arrogance, at least until the failure became too obvious to ignore. But some foul play probably happened after that point.

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

but the real idea about bitcoin is not to trust someone else with your money. I don't think anyone lost money from Danny unless they backed his business venture. To my knowledge they didn't get to the point where they had bitcoin savings accounts with deposits in existence.

That is correct, but the bare protocol is not enough. Even of bitcoin succeeds (in my definition, not just as a black market currency) ther will be a need for banks and such things.

If you're not well informed yet Jorge you should know the U.S$ is the king of black market and that is unlikely to change. No.. we are our own banks...if you mean keeping our btc funds safe from thrives yeah maybe we will need safer places to access our bitcoin storage than our houses but this is no different that keeping cash at home.

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

and its not we will see, its we're witnessing they're growth.

I see many promises. As for Silbert's fund, esterday I posted a rough analysis. It seems that the average investor lost money so far (although some have already made nice profits, and the rest may too if the BTC price goes up). On the other hand, SecondMarket will profit in any case from fees, and perhaps more if they can buy coins below market price, e.g. from a private mining outfit.

I don't trust your analysis of second market but that is just me.

You don't need to trust him. It's just common sense as most bitcoins in BIT was bought over $400.

Details: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gbtc-bitcoin-investment-trust-observer-337486

Davyd05

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on April 11, 2014, 12:05:21 PM

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

Jorge, Danny may have ponzi'd

I don't think he did. To me it looks like just incompetence and arrogance, at least until the failure became too obvious to ignore. But some foul play probably happened after that point.

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

but the real idea about bitcoin is not to trust someone else with your money. I don't think anyone lost money from Danny unless they backed his business venture. To my knowledge they didn't get to the point where they had bitcoin savings accounts with deposits in existence.

That is correct, but the bare protocol is not enough. Even of bitcoin succeeds (in my definition, not just as a black market currency) ther will be a need for banks and such things.

If you're not well informed yet Jorge you should know the U.S$ is the king of black market and that is unlikely to change. No.. we are our own banks...if you mean keeping our btc funds safe from thieves, then maybe we will need safer places to access our bitcoin storage than our houses but this is no different that keeping cash at home.

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

and its not we will see, its we're witnessing they're growth.

I see many promises. As for Silbert's fund, esterday I posted a rough analysis. It seems that the average investor lost money so far (although some have already made nice profits, and the rest may too if the BTC price goes up). On the other hand, SecondMarket will profit in any case from fees, and perhaps more if they can buy coins below market price, e.g. from a private mining outfit.

I don't trust your analysis of second market but that is just me.

Mervyn_Pumpkinhead

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Quote from: oda.krell on April 11, 2014, 11:52:53 AM

Quote from: Mervyn_Pumpkinhead on April 11, 2014, 11:48:13 AM

Quote from: magicmexican on April 11, 2014, 11:36:39 AM

I sense the bear fear of being left behind, if huobi gets to like 2730'ish i expect mass panic buybacks

I won't buy into this even if the price rises to 700. If I didn't see 500 as cheap when the price fell to this level from 600, then I certainly don't see it as cheap when it rose there from 340. I'm quite positive that this rise isn't sustainable because nothing has really changed to the better. "But everyone else are buying" isn't a strong enough reason for me.

Which is precisely why you will (as I predicted a few pages ago) continue whining all the way upwards during the next rally.*

For the record, there are people in here who I buy their % gains from (tera, even billy).

Yours, not one second.

* This is not an endorsement of the current upward swing. I think it's a bull trap.

Well, after all, you are a donkey..
With all jokes aside, I just want the market to be more efficient. For that to happen, people need to smarten up, so they could distinguish what is important and what is not. These "recoveries" that are fuelled by denial, desperation and foolish hopes, just make this long term downtrend longer, and making the market ugly longer then needed. This, in turn, will scare away experienced and educated people that in all probability would have the most funds to spend. So, because of these temporal dumb pumps, everyone involved will earn less money because the market isn't efficient and therefore isn't attractive for people who have a clue.

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

Jorge, Danny may have ponzi'd

I don't think he did. To me it looks like just incompetence and arrogance, at least until the failure became too obvious to ignore. But some foul play probably happened after that point.

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

but the real idea about bitcoin is not to trust someone else with your money. I don't think anyone lost money from Danny unless they backed his business venture. To my knowledge they didn't get to the point where they had bitcoin savings accounts with deposits in existence.

That is correct, but the bare protocol is not enough. Even of bitcoin succeeds (in my definition, not just as a black market currency) ther will be a need for banks and such things.

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

and its not we will see, its we're witnessing they're growth.

I see many promises. As for Silbert's fund, esterday I posted a rough analysis. It seems that the average investor lost money so far (although some have already made nice profits, and the rest may too if the BTC price goes up). On the other hand, SecondMarket will profit in any case from fees, and perhaps more if they can buy coins below market price, e.g. from a private mining outfit.

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

Guinpen

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Quote from: oda.krell on April 11, 2014, 11:52:53 AM

* This is not an endorsement of the current upward swing. I think it's a bull trap.

Why do you think that, if you don't mind me asking?

magicmexican

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Activity: 812

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2666 on Huobi

BBmodBB

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Activity: 154

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BTC = FREEDOM IS OUR ONLY HOPE!

Quote from: NewLiberty on April 11, 2014, 11:44:48 AM

Quote from: dreamspark on April 11, 2014, 05:28:30 AM

How do you distinguish between distribution and accumulation?

http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php?id=chart_school:technical_indicators:accumulation_distrib

It is a volume weighted metric.
Volume manipulation is much more expensive to accomplish than price manipulation (except on exchanges where the transactions are free).
It tends to be a much more reliable indication of trend reversals than price, when the preponderance of trade volume is on up time rather than down time.
When we go down on big volume and up on small volume, its just whales setting the price up for the next dump. When we go up on volume, whales aren't going to dump but are going to wait for the run to go as far as it can before we sell.
This indicated the November climb in October, and the 2013 spring rally almost 2 months ahead.
These early warnings are things we need in the US especially because we have no real exchange and it takes so long to move fiat money around unless you are rippling it.

g'morning Chief! good to see ya!!! We need to get this Beverly Hills exchange going soon!..i'm telling you bruv~*trust*~>>weeee can do it! Wink

blessed Owlz

wachtwoord

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Quote from: magicmexican on April 11, 2014, 11:51:43 AM

There are several factors why people do not daytrade :

1) They feel safer to have their coins in the coldstorage and not on the exchange - nothing wrong with that
2) They understand that trading is a serious deal, that you cant just jump in right into it and make money - nothing wrong with that
3) They have other job and its more profitable/comfortable for them to just focus on their job and buy more coins when the price is right - nothing wrong with that

4) They feel that in the best case trading is a zero sum game in which they have no edge and worst case pure gambling (with a preference for the latter theory)

sonofliberty

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Market Integration Platform

Giving 25% discount on my web shop for purchases with bitcoin. Scooping up those coins with ease.

oda.krell

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Quote from: Mervyn_Pumpkinhead on April 11, 2014, 11:48:13 AM

Quote from: magicmexican on April 11, 2014, 11:36:39 AM

I sense the bear fear of being left behind, if huobi gets to like 2730'ish i expect mass panic buybacks

I won't buy into this even if the price rises to 700. If I didn't see 500 as cheap when the price fell to this level from 600, then I certainly don't see it as cheap when it rose there from 340. I'm quite positive that this rise isn't sustainable because nothing has really changed to the better. "But everyone else are buying" isn't a strong enough reason for me.

Which is precisely why you will (as I predicted a few pages ago) continue whining all the way upwards during the next rally.*

For the record, there are people in here who I buy their % gains from (tera, even billy).

Yours, not one second.

* This is not an endorsement of the current upward swing. I think it's a bull trap.

magicmexican

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 11:41:24 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on April 11, 2014, 11:35:27 AM

Quote from: aminorex on April 11, 2014, 10:06:44 AM

Jorge has jumped the shark with rockets and bells on. He is indistinguishable from any other bear troll trying to panic suckers to take their money. Time to ignore.

At least I am distinguishable from the standard bull troll who tries to convince suckers to buy AND HOLD so that the price can go up to the level where he can sell at a profit. Angry

Hodling is recommended mainly to those who have no clue how to trade, and or have no TA understanding...I really didn't buy so I could transfer my btc back to Fiat..I bought cause I think it can revolutionize at the least payment systems.

I dont like when people try to ridicule "buy and hold" approach, nothing wrong with buying btc as longterm investment.

There are several factors why people do not daytrade :

1) They feel safer to have their coins in the coldstorage and not on the exchange - nothing wrong with that
2) They understand that trading is a serious deal, that you cant just jump in right into it and make money - nothing wrong with that
3) They have other job and its more profitable/comfortable for them to just focus on their job and buy more coins when the price is right - nothing wrong with that

If your main income is trading and you are making money - props to you, but its not the only way to do things. Some people just dont want to deal with monitoring the markets/news/TA and taking risk trying to play the unpredictable manipulative market.

Davyd05

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Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on April 11, 2014, 11:20:04 AM

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 10:17:44 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on April 11, 2014, 10:09:08 AM

What are the Canadian regulations that apply to the bitcoin trading services of Cavirtex and other Canadian exchanges (apart from common laws, such as fraud, property theft, money laundering, etc.)? (Serious question.)

They pretty much have to adhere to the same regulation as banks, if not more. They' got their MSB license as well.

Thanks! However, those regulations do not include insider trading or fractional BTC holding, correct? Banks do those things all the time, and the Canadian "Fed" surely does not regulate BTC holdings. Insider trading laws are specific to stock and commodity markets.

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 10:17:44 AM

When the market wants more tightly regulated exchange they'll occur we already have the Winklevoss and Silbert funds which are just beginning. NY or Texas will probably launch a North American exchange that will foster growth due to many people not investing because of the arguments you pointed out with regulation abroad and other uncertainties.

Great, we will see...

Quote from: Davyd05 on April 11, 2014, 10:17:44 AM

More so generally the financial markets that claim to have regulation have enough loop holes that we have already got lots of Ponzis from the likes of Madoff to Merriman, taking peoples "safer" Fiat currency.

The Euro bosses and Cypriot banks, IIRC, "stole" 6--10% from all bank accounts in Cyprus. Neo & Bee's Danny Brewster then told Cypriots that his bitcoin-based bank would keep their money safe from further bank and government theft. Eventually he disappeared, leaving behind many debts to contractors and staff, having spent all the 12,000 BTC he got from investors without any accounting or revenue, and after allegedly selling to two Cypriot citizens several thousand euros's worth of bitcoins that were not delivered. Oh, and there are also allegations of insider trading of Neo & Bee shares on his own bitcoin-based securities trading platform, which of course was unregulated.

So much for bitcoin protecting us from greedy and unscrupulous bankers.

http://www.osc.gov.on.ca/en/Investors_inv_news_20140404_real-risks-virtual-currency.htm From today...they're looking at it but again bitcoin is unique and continues to scare those who have been raping the markets with their own rules for centuries.

Jorge if you got any info you need to share with them go ahead, “The OSC is closely monitoring investment activity related to virtual currency and we’ll take action where violations of the Ontario Securities Act are concerned.”

I would also wager that most insider trading in bitcoin is most likely done by the PBoC.

Jorge, Danny may have ponzi'd but the real idea about bitcoin is not to trust someone else with your money. I don't think anyone lost money from Danny unless they backed his business venture. To my knowledge they didn't get to the point where they had bitcoin savings accounts with deposits in existence.

and its not we will see, its we're witnessing they're growth.

Mervyn_Pumpkinhead

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Activity: 876

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Quote from: magicmexican on April 11, 2014, 11:36:39 AM

I sense the bear fear of being left behind, if huobi gets to like 2730'ish i expect mass panic buybacks

I won't buy into this even if the price rises to 700. If I didn't see 500 as cheap when the price fell to this level from 600, then I certainly don't see it as cheap when it rose there from 340. I'm quite positive that this rise isn't sustainable because nothing has really changed to the better. "But everyone else are buying" isn't a strong enough reason for me.

BitChick

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Quote from: magicmexican on April 11, 2014, 11:36:39 AM

I sense the bear fear of being left behind, if huobi gets to like 2730'ish i expect mass panic buybacks

Panic buybacks sound fun to watch. Time for some popcorn and good show!

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: dreamspark on April 11, 2014, 05:28:30 AM

How do you distinguish between distribution and accumulation?

http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php?id=chart_school:technical_indicators:accumulation_distrib

It is a volume weighted metric.
Volume manipulation is much more expensive to accomplish than price manipulation (except on exchanges where the transactions are free).
It tends to be a much more reliable indication of trend reversals than price, when the preponderance of trade volume is on up time rather than down time.
When we go down on big volume and up on small volume, its just whales setting the price up for the next dump. When we go up on volume, whales aren't going to dump but are going to wait for the run to go as far as it can before we sell.
This indicated the November climb in October, and the 2013 spring rally almost 2 months ahead.
These early warnings are things we need in the US especially because we have no real exchange and it takes so long to move fiat money around unless you are rippling it.

billyjoeallen

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Activity: 1106

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Hide your women

I just had what I think is an epiphy: Our jobs as day traders, the liquidity providers, the decentral bankers of bitcoin, it to find a hole in the order book and fill it. Most of the money the good ones are going to make is when they aren't even looking.

Guinpen

newbie

Activity: 28

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I bought more BTC a few minutes ago, so if my recent luck is any indication, it's about to crash so hard, last night will seem like statistical error

Davyd05

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on April 11, 2014, 11:35:27 AM

Quote from: aminorex on April 11, 2014, 10:06:44 AM

Jorge has jumped the shark with rockets and bells on. He is indistinguishable from any other bear troll trying to panic suckers to take their money. Time to ignore.

At least I am distinguishable from the standard bull troll who tries to convince suckers to buy AND HOLD so that the price can go up to the level where he can sell at a profit. Angry

Hodling is recommended mainly to those who have no clue how to trade, and or have no TA understanding...I really didn't buy so I could transfer my btc back to Fiat..I bought cause I think it can revolutionize at the least payment systems.

Syke

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on April 11, 2014, 11:20:04 AM

So much for bitcoin protecting us from greedy and unscrupulous bankers.

I don't know what you're talking about. My bitcoins are 100% safe from anyone else, including bankers, etc. If people send their bitcoins to someone else to hold, then they don't have bitcoins anymore. Since they don't have bitcoins anymore, they're not safe anymore.

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