Can you tell me the names of the known people who own 6mil bitcoins together? or even 2mil? or 1mil?
Net says that Satoshi owns 1 M pre-mined BTC, perhaps other "founding fathers" too? Although of course they are not "known people".
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29550. (Read 26609743 times)
February 17, 2014, 09:37:23 PM
Net says that Satoshi owns 1 M pre-mined BTC, perhaps other "founding fathers" too? Although of course they are not "known people".
February 17, 2014, 09:37:02 PM
In case you haven´t noticed this is the "SPECULATION" sub-forum. It´s about trading here.
Not speculating about its philosophy....
Not speculating about its philosophy....
February 17, 2014, 09:34:11 PM
Or, he thinks long-term.
The more long-term you predict bitcoin, the more you gamble. There are so many real factors that rise probability, that in the coming years, bitcoin will die. Only thing special about bitcoin is that it was the first popular outlet of an very good idea. It's like believing in the 80s that Apple will always dominate the personal computer market, because it was the first to succeed with Macintosh. You can't hold onto this idea alone. Other can better that idea or just market that idea better with their products.Quote
Bitcoin value is only held up by speculation
- Definitely not true. Bitcoin adds a great deal of economic value.
Sadly it is. Bitcoin has very little economic value, the idea has a lot of potential for value, but bitcoin itself is an economic gimmick. Mainly because of the overly simplified proof-of-work system to introduce new coins. Because of that, bitcoin will never be a stand-alone currency and it needs fiat to give it value.- Definitely not true. Bitcoin adds a great deal of economic value.
Right now, with adopting bitcoin payments at your shop has no value in financial efficiency. You will only gain the trouble in converting your money. Only reason why some companies decide to accept bitcoin payment, is for marketing reasons. Starting to accept bitcoin will get you lot's of free press and it will also get you some new loyar customers among those who are loyal to bitcoin. It won't make your financial dealings less efficent, not more.
Quote
If you want to store value, then buy resources like rare-earth metals, that are in constant demand together with technological advancements and their supply is constantly getting tighter.
-"Rare-earth" is a bit of a misnomer. They aren't actually all that rare. And the supply-demand equation fluctuates a great deal. I would definitely consider bitcoin to be a much safer investment than rare-earth commodities, which are not so easy to physically hold, by the way. There may be some rare-earth supply-chain enterprises which are fairly safe investments, but they are unlikely to qualify as stores of value, or to provide such speculative upside as bitcoin.
With Rare-earth metals, it's not hard to find geographical places from where to extract the ore, but it will be difficult to find places that let mining and processing with this environmental impact to happen on their soil. And also to consider the growing demand, I think that picking the right element is the best store of value investment that one can currently do.-"Rare-earth" is a bit of a misnomer. They aren't actually all that rare. And the supply-demand equation fluctuates a great deal. I would definitely consider bitcoin to be a much safer investment than rare-earth commodities, which are not so easy to physically hold, by the way. There may be some rare-earth supply-chain enterprises which are fairly safe investments, but they are unlikely to qualify as stores of value, or to provide such speculative upside as bitcoin.
Quote
Bitcoin is not rare, it's only decided by a group of people that it is rare. And you are also trusting a group of unknown people that it will stay rare.
- A very large group of mostly known people whose interests are fairly predictably aligned with my own.
There are about 12,37mil bitcoins in circulation. Can you tell me the names of the known people who own 6mil bitcoins together? or even 2mil? or 1mil?- A very large group of mostly known people whose interests are fairly predictably aligned with my own.
Last time I remember that some big bitcoin holder came into public with his coins was when Winklevosses declared that they have about 1% of total bitcoin circulation. Can you please give me other names that have declared how big their stake is in bitcoin, so I can see on who are these people who I am supposed to trust then?
So, we get it. You are a trader. You don't believe in the fundamentals of the technology. You are just here to make money trading. Ok. Great. Take your profits and get some more precious rocks. Bye.
February 17, 2014, 09:30:02 PM
History absolutely makes you wise.
Perhaps. At least it certainly makes you jaded. I am very disappointed with the lackadaisical attitude towards criminal attacks on bitcoin which I see manifested in long-term traders and holders alike. Apathy is never healthy or empowering to a constituency, and it is precisely crap like that which gives governments the excuse they want to infringe upon, and potentially eviscerate, the freedom to transact.
February 17, 2014, 09:27:42 PM
Daily volumes of BTC trade to/from USD and other national currencies (in kBTC):
! Sun ! Mon ! Tue ! Wed ! Thu ! Fri ! Sat ! Sun ! Mon !
EXCHANGE ! 02/09 ! 02/10 ! 02/11 ! 02/12 ! 02/13 ! 02/14 ! 02/15 ! 02/16 ! 02/17 ! Currencies considered
Bitstamp | 15.06 | 71.86 | 40.06 | 15.51 | 28.15 | 63.38 | 20.76 | 26.40 | 19.90 | USD
BitFinEx | 12.07 | 41.98 | 39.54 | 12.85 | 17.17 | 53.68 | 10.83 | 16.75 | 15.69 | USD
BTC-e | 12.51 | 47.04 | 28.64 | 9.97 | 18.53 | 52.18 | 9.16 | 21.75 | 15.07 | USD,EUR,RUR
Kraken | 0.45 | 1.45 | 1.11 | 0.58 | 0.93 | 1.79 | 0.41 | 0.91 | 0.89 | EUR
Bitcoin.DE | 0.47 | 1.54 | 0.67 | 0.51 | 0.78 | 1.63 | 0.22 | 0.57 | 0.57 | EUR
CaVirtEx | 0.23 | 0.77 | 0.53 | 0.29 | 0.41 | 1.16 | 0.15 | 0.15 | 0.15 | CAD
CampBX | 0.24 | 0.37 | 0.11 | 0.10 | 0.21 | 0.41 | 0.05 | 0.07 | 0.28 | USD
SUBTOTAL | 41.03 | 165.01 | 110.66 | 39.81 | 66.18 | 174.23 | 41.58 | 66.60 | 52.55 |
Huobi | 64.08 | 134.09 | 120.08 | 131.86 | 82.39 | 236.27 | 122.80 | 110.57 | 130.41 | CNY
OKCoin | 34.63 | 70.49 | 64.22 | 60.79 | 62.49 | 147.26 | 51.45 | 63.63 | 63.05 | CNY
BTC-China | 5.75 | 18.23 | 11.17 | 11.01 | 8.02 | 24.87 | 7.55 | 9.08 | 7.86 | CNY
Bter | 0.33 | 0.85 | 0.76 | 0.69 | 0.65 | 1.54 | 0.74 | 0.56 | 0.48 | CNY
SUBTOTAL | 104.79 | 223.66 | 196.23 | 204.35 | 153.55 | 409.94 | 182.54 | 183.84 | 201.80 |
MtGOX | 23.48 | 50.07 | 18.70 | 25.21 | 33.85 | 79.56 | 60.15 | 104.46 | 65.69 | USD,EUR,GBP,AUD,JPY
TOTAL | 169.30 | 438.74 | 325.59 | 269.37 | 253.58 | 663.73 | 284.27 | 354.90 | 320.04 |
All numbers were collected by hand from the site http://bitcoinwisdom.com. Beware of possible errors.
For each exchange, the numbers include only the trade volume to/from the currencies listed in the rightmost column. Trade between BTC and other cryptocoins, such as LiteCoin, is NOT included.
The exchange Bter was added to Bitcoinwisdom's menu on 2014-02-15; its volumes for 02/07 to 02/14 have been added
retroactively to the table.
Coinbase is said to use Bitstamp for currency conversion.
Dates on the header line are UTC. Specifically, "01/15" means "from 01/15 00:00:00 UTC to 01/15 23:59:59 UTC". (Beware that Bitcoinwisdom uses your local time, so the date may appear to be off by 1 day. For example, if you are 2 hours west of Greenwich, it may show "01/14 22:00" when the UTC time is "01/15 00:00".)
NOTE: A few days ago, MtGOX has suspended withdrawals of Bitcoins and national currencies. Therefore it is essentially isolated from other markets, and its price is completely out of the norm. The exceptional trade volumes above may be meaningless.
February 17, 2014, 09:26:51 PM
Or, he thinks long-term.
The more long-term you predict bitcoin, the more you gamble. There are so many real factors that rise probability, that in the coming years, bitcoin will die. Only thing special about bitcoin is that it was the first popular outlet of an very good idea. It's like believing in the 80s that Apple will always dominate the personal computer market, because it was the first to succeed with Macintosh. You can't hold onto this idea alone. Other can better that idea or just market that idea better with their products.Quote
Bitcoin value is only held up by speculation
- Definitely not true. Bitcoin adds a great deal of economic value.
Sadly it is. Bitcoin has very little economic value, the idea has a lot of potential for value, but bitcoin itself is an economic gimmick. Mainly because of the overly simplified proof-of-work system to introduce new coins. Because of that, bitcoin will never be a stand-alone currency and it needs fiat to give it value.- Definitely not true. Bitcoin adds a great deal of economic value.
Right now, with adopting bitcoin payments at your shop has no value in financial efficiency. You will only gain the trouble in converting your money. Only reason why some companies decide to accept bitcoin payment, is for marketing reasons. Starting to accept bitcoin will get you lot's of free press and it will also get you some new loyar customers among those who are loyal to bitcoin. It will make your financial dealings less efficent, not more.
Quote
If you want to store value, then buy resources like rare-earth metals, that are in constant demand together with technological advancements and their supply is constantly getting tighter.
-"Rare-earth" is a bit of a misnomer. They aren't actually all that rare. And the supply-demand equation fluctuates a great deal. I would definitely consider bitcoin to be a much safer investment than rare-earth commodities, which are not so easy to physically hold, by the way. There may be some rare-earth supply-chain enterprises which are fairly safe investments, but they are unlikely to qualify as stores of value, or to provide such speculative upside as bitcoin.
With Rare-earth metals, it's not hard to find geographical places from where to extract the ore, but it will be difficult to find places that let mining and processing with this environmental impact to happen on their soil. And also to consider the growing demand, I think that picking the right element is the best store of value investment that one can currently do.-"Rare-earth" is a bit of a misnomer. They aren't actually all that rare. And the supply-demand equation fluctuates a great deal. I would definitely consider bitcoin to be a much safer investment than rare-earth commodities, which are not so easy to physically hold, by the way. There may be some rare-earth supply-chain enterprises which are fairly safe investments, but they are unlikely to qualify as stores of value, or to provide such speculative upside as bitcoin.
Quote
Bitcoin is not rare, it's only decided by a group of people that it is rare. And you are also trusting a group of unknown people that it will stay rare.
- A very large group of mostly known people whose interests are fairly predictably aligned with my own.
There are about 12,37mil bitcoins in circulation. Can you tell me the names of the known people who own 6mil bitcoins together? or even 2mil? or 1mil?- A very large group of mostly known people whose interests are fairly predictably aligned with my own.
Last time I remember that some big bitcoin holder came into public with his coins was when Winklevosses declared that they have about 1% of total bitcoin circulation. Can you please give me other names that have declared how big their stake is in bitcoin, so I can see on who are these people who I am supposed to trust then?
February 17, 2014, 09:24:32 PM
February 17, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
Would you like a nice Cheddar to go with that whine?
To my point. You bought in October/November. You are new to bitcoin. No one is trying to convince you that we are going to the moon tomorrow. Read my posts. Over and over and over again I state we are in a bear market and we might hit the 200 sma average on Stamp before reversing. That average is at $450+ today and in about 4-5 weeks it will be at around $550. So we are well on our way to full correction, in my opinion.
There. You happy now?
Btw, China doesn't matter. You think that was Chinese money going into Bistamp and Gox? It was money from all over the world.
It doesn't mater how new I am. Before 2013 bitcoin was just play money for buying drugs and the entire market system revolved around that utility. Right now bitcoin is at the doorstep in becoming a legal financial tool. This moment is crucial, if it succeeds it will rise much higher, but if it fails, then it won't get another chance. So, I don't really care about your bitcoin experience pre-2013. I just care if bitcoin will get past that doorstep or not. And currently it seems like it is slowly falling back.
And based on what, do you see that the price is actually rising not just preparing another deeper drop?
All I can see is relatively strong bottom resistance and very little lift. But without lift the bottom resistance is weakening and we can see this through most of January. There won't be a rise just because there is strong support at the bottom, there also has to be strong support for lift, but it aint there. Without lift the bottom will only weaken and weaken until it breaks.
This is precisely why you are wrong. You think nothing matters before you arrived on the scene. Bitcoin isn't at a make or break point. That is only your immature (time reference) view point. Bitcoin is still in its infancy. It can go to $100 and still be worth $100k one day.
You think the hundreds of millions of VC developing the current eco-system cares whether bitcoin is $100 or $1200 right now? Fuck no. They are innovating for the future. You think wall street cares? Nope. Except that $100 is more attractive than $1000. Too bad its not going back to $100. Its going, maybe to the 200 SMA and that is all. So quit worrying so much and acting like this hasn't all happened before. Its happened over and over and over. History absolutely makes you wise.
February 17, 2014, 09:23:04 PM
we just see the tip of the iceberg.
Just the tip? Promise?
she said
February 17, 2014, 09:10:18 PM
we just see the tip of the iceberg.
Just the tip? Promise?
February 17, 2014, 09:09:21 PM
Poetry to fill a Dull Chart Moment:
Naive you are
if you believe
life favours those
who aren't naive.
--Piet Hein
Anyone fancy a go at a MtGox/Karpeles haiku? Naive you are
if you believe
life favours those
who aren't naive.
--Piet Hein
February 17, 2014, 09:08:27 PM
We need lots of buy-hold-buy-mores, and lots of successful daytraders.
... and we need the bad daytraders to feed the good daytraders, and we need the ignorant nay-sayers to slow down the rise, so the visionary late-comers have a chance.
for such a nice person you sure make a terrible president of turkey.
February 17, 2014, 09:07:19 PM
Poetry to fill a Dull Chart Moment:
Naive you are
if you believe
life favours those
who aren't naive.
--Piet Hein
Naive you are
if you believe
life favours those
who aren't naive.
--Piet Hein
February 17, 2014, 09:06:06 PM
I spy panic on the horizon.
Nah, it's an epiphany and it's heading your way. 
February 17, 2014, 09:03:00 PM
February 17, 2014, 09:02:08 PM
I spy panic on the horizon.
February 17, 2014, 09:01:14 PM
No offend, but a speculater like you contributes nothing to bitcoin, no matter you win or lose money. Therefore, your interest on BTC really matters no so much. If anyone interested in bitcoin is just want to buy low and sell high, then BTC better to die now.
So why do you buy Bitcoin, and not just donate to Bitcoin related start ups, if it´s not about making profit?
If you buy bitcoins to store value, then you probably don't know much about money.
Bitcoin value is only held up by speculation, so trusting bitcoin to hold your wealth is giving your money to the bitcoin hodlers and trust that they won't cash out. That is naive as an investment and a naive way to deal with wealth.
If you want to store value, then buy resources like rare-earth metals, that are in constant demand together with technological advancements and their supply is constantly getting tighter. Bitcoin is not rare, it's only decided by a group of people that it is rare. And you are also trusting a group of unknown people that it will stay rare.
I think you have confused value with price. The price of bitcoin now is manipulated by a few people with the help of the exchanges. The value of Bitcoin, however, lies in that it's the only scheme which provides a reliable accountant system without requiring trust on any centralized authority, shared all over the world, and backed up by a huge computing power.
You can speculate on its price as much as you want, but the value of bitcoin is much more than that. How it will change the world is still largely unknown and we just see the tip of the iceberg. That's again why I said the speculators really do not matter to the future of bitcoin.
February 17, 2014, 08:59:09 PM
We need lots of buy-hold-buy-mores, and lots of successful daytraders.
... and we need the bad daytraders to feed the good daytraders, and we need the ignorant nay-sayers to slow down the rise, so the visionary late-comers have a chance.
February 17, 2014, 08:59:00 PM
I don't think that the Bitcoin Foundation can or should be salvaged. Since the other board members haven't given any sign that they are displeased with Mark's actions at MtGOX, one cannot assume that they are better than him.
Besides, it is not clear whose interests the Foundation is supposed to represent: small investors, big investors, traders, exchange owners, developers, or people who just want bitcoin to be used for commerce?
Methinks that bitcoin owners should create an independent Bitcoin Investors Association, supported by fixed low fees and accepting no donations (so that it does not become a Bitcoin Whales Association). Its first priority should be to write a set of standards for exchanges (including transparent accounting), audit them, and certify them for compliance.
February 17, 2014, 08:58:29 PM
If you buy bitcoins to store value, then you probably don't know much about money.
Or, he thinks long-term.
Quote
Bitcoin value is only held up by speculation
Definitely not true. Bitcoin adds a great deal of economic value.
Quote
If you want to store value, then buy resources like rare-earth metals, that are in constant demand together with technological advancements and their supply is constantly getting tighter.
"Rare-earth" is a bit of a misnomer. They aren't actually all that rare. And the supply-demand equation fluctuates a great deal. I would definitely consider bitcoin to be a much safer investment than rare-earth commodities, which are not so easy to physically hold, by the way. There may be some rare-earth supply-chain enterprises which are fairly safe investments, but they are unlikely to qualify as stores of value, or to provide such speculative upside as bitcoin.
Quote
Bitcoin is not rare, it's only decided by a group of people that it is rare. And you are also trusting a group of unknown people that it will stay rare.
A very large group of mostly known people whose interests are fairly predictably aligned with my own.
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