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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 30027. (Read 26710035 times)

hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
Spanish Bitcoin trader

Not a chance.  It removes the option of "cross trades".

e.g You are a broker who has order to buy 200 and sell 100.

The broker would then buy 100 and then "cross" 100, resulting in 200 bought and 100 sold.

This is critical in open outcry exchanges.

plz, could you explain that for a 5year old? thx

Let's use Corn Futures as our commodity.

Broker X has 2 clients.

Client 1 makes breakfast cereals.
Client 2 is Jo Farmer with 5000 acres of corn that will mature in 2 months.

Client 1 wants to buy 200 tonnes in 2 months.
Client 2 wants to sell 100 tonnes in 2 months.

Broker X enters the market place and offers to buy 100 tonnes.
Broker Y sells him 100 tonnes.  Broker X immediately "crosses" 100 tonnes.

The "crossed" trade is a buy and sell at the same price.

Broker X has now bought 200 tonnes and sold 100 tonnes fulfilling both orders.

I was lucky enough to work in the Australian Futures Exchange during the "open out cry" era.  "Open out cry" is trading directly with a bunch of people that is monitored by officials who then relay the trades to the outside world.

Imagine 200 people in a circle 30 feet wide all trying to trade.   I was on the desk relaying buy and sell orders to the traders in the circle.   It was up to the traders to figure out when to "cross" or not.

The movie Trading Places shows this type of exchange.  HTH.


Thanks, but that's for two different brokers. We are talking about an account buying to himself.
legendary
Activity: 2833
Merit: 1851
In order to dump coins one must have coins
Get your tinfoil hats on! Whomever is manipulating the price to keep it in this narrow range is going to run out of bitcoins eventually ;-)

I hear bitcoin days destroyed is goin crazy so maybe it's some of the early adopters at work... trying to keep the financial apocalypse at bay for just a little while longer...  Grin Grin Grin

Close but not quiet there. So Winterflosss' have how many BTC? How about the SecondMarket (think i remember BTC70K been throwing around). That's a lot of BTC. At the meeting IIRC someone from the panel asked where they get their BTC, answer was muffled early adopters and other sources. I doubt early adopters are business people and what price do you offer them? If it was me to entice i'd offer some % on top of current exchange rate who would pass that up? And dump say 10% of the acquired BTC on the market. 70k bought, 7k BTC are dumped on market to guarantee the lower buying price. Small price to pay so you get as many coins and hold it from CCMFing. It'll continue as long as they'll be major trades off the market while relying on the exchange rates (what else would you use).

Edit: and for early adopter why sell on exchange and loose on slippage when you can sell for a premium and without slippage
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1002
Strange, yet attractive.
Happy Chinese New Year. Wonder where the horse will take us, but I am very tempted to go all in at this time.

I think I might wait for the year of the Goat Tongue

I'm so waiting for this.

I'm going to have to host a massive party somewhere Smiley

bitcoin island comes to mind...

Best place evar! as I'm the local tyrant!

I'm gonna nominate for your PM. Free BTCooze for everyone. Yeah!
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250

Not a chance.  It removes the option of "cross trades".

e.g You are a broker who has order to buy 200 and sell 100.

The broker would then buy 100 and then "cross" 100, resulting in 200 bought and 100 sold.

This is critical in open outcry exchanges.

plz, could you explain that for a 5year old? thx

Let's use Corn Futures as our commodity.

Broker X has 2 clients.

Client 1 makes breakfast cereals.
Client 2 is Jo Farmer with 5000 acres of corn that will mature in 2 months.

Client 1 wants to buy 200 tonnes in 2 months.
Client 2 wants to sell 100 tonnes in 2 months.

Broker X enters the market place and offers to buy 100 tonnes.
Broker Y sells him 100 tonnes.  Broker X immediately "crosses" 100 tonnes.

The "crossed" trade is a buy and sell at the same price.

Broker X has now bought 200 tonnes and sold 100 tonnes fulfilling both orders.

I was lucky enough to work in the Australian Futures Exchange during the "open out cry" era.  "Open out cry" is trading directly with a bunch of people that is monitored by officials who then relay the trades to the outside world.

Imagine 200 people in a circle 30 feet wide all trying to trade.   I was on the desk relaying buy and sell orders to the traders in the circle.   It was up to the traders to figure out when to "cross" or not.

The movie Trading Places shows this type of exchange.  HTH.

EDIT:  You cannot perform a cross trade unless you are already in a trade. 
In the example above, Broker X could not simply cross 100 without first trading with Broker Y.

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
had some fun with charts.



 Tongue
full member
Activity: 147
Merit: 100
Realbitcoin.info
Happy Chinese New Year. Wonder where the horse will take us, but I am very tempted to go all in at this time.

I think I might wait for the year of the Goat Tongue
full member
Activity: 798
Merit: 100
i was promised cheap coins. are they coming or not? i sold some in 770s.  Cry
You have to hope for some bad news.  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 250
We got trolled by China thats for sure.

New exchange opening in Hong Kong in march. Thats what I call a crash...to the moon !
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Look at the 10-day/15-minute chart with enabled Parabolic SAR on http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg10zig15-minztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzps

It really looks like a dragon!  Shocked And its snout seems to point up

Happy Chinese New Year. Wonder where the horse will take us, but I am very tempted to go all in at this time.
KFR
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Per ardua ad luna
Those darned Internet promises again.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
i was promised cheap coins. are they coming or not? i sold some in 770s.  Cry
KFR
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Per ardua ad luna
LOL.  When I first read that I thought you were calling my explanation a piece of ....

That's how I first read it too.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007

what does "bitcoin days destroyed" mean exactly???


It's really simple once you "get it" but it took me a while to wrap my head around it too.  I'll try:

If you send me 1 BTC and I spend it tomorrow, when I spend it, I will have destroyed 1 bitcoin-days.

If I wait till next month to spend it, when I spend it it will destroy 30 bitcoin-days.  

But I you send my 60 BTC and I spend them 12 hours from now, it would also destroy 30 bitcoin-days.  

So, it's a combined measure of the magnitude and oldness of the coins that are being spent.  If we see a huge spike in the amount of bitcoin-days destroyed, it's a good indication that someone just moved a lot of old coins.  

Interestingly: something akin to bitcoin-days is used by the bitcoin-network to determine the priority of a transaction.  AFAIK:

   priority = (# of BTC) * (age) / (size of TX in bytes)
This sounds like POS to me... Does this mean that the Bitcoin code could be changed to implement POS easily (if the miners agreed)

LOL.  When I first read that I thought you were calling my explanation a piece of ....

I don't know much about Proof of Stake, but I understand that the current priority scheme is one of the denial-of-service protection measures in bitcoin.  It makes is so that legitimate 10 mBTC transactions built from coins that have been sitting in your wallet for a few days have a higher priority than someone ping-ponging coins back and forth every block trying to bloat the "unconfirmed transaction" and increase confirmation times for the average user: https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions
sr. member
Activity: 560
Merit: 250
"Trading Platform of The Future!"
exchanges should make it impossible to fill your own orders.

Not a chance.  It removes the option of "cross trades".

e.g You are a broker who has order to buy 200 and sell 100.

The broker would then buy 100 and then "cross" 100, resulting in 200 bought and 100 sold.

This is critical in open outcry exchanges.
Why not cancel the sell 100 order, buy 100, and avoid paying fees on 100?  Huh
sr. member
Activity: 560
Merit: 250
"Trading Platform of The Future!"

what does "bitcoin days destroyed" mean exactly???


It's really simple once you "get it" but it took me a while to wrap my head around it too.  I'll try:

If you send me 1 BTC and I spend it tomorrow, when I spend it, I will have destroyed 1 bitcoin-days.

If I wait till next month to spend it, when I spend it it will destroy 30 bitcoin-days.  

But I you send my 60 BTC and I spend them 12 hours from now, it would also destroy 30 bitcoin-days.  

So, it's a combined measure of the magnitude and oldness of the coins that are being spent.  If we see a huge spike in the amount of bitcoin-days destroyed, it's a good indication that someone just moved a lot of old coins.  

Interestingly: something akin to bitcoin-days is used by the bitcoin-network to determine the priority of a transaction.  AFAIK:

   priority = (# of BTC) * (age) / (size of TX in bytes)
This sounds like POS to me... Does this mean that the Bitcoin code could be changed to implement POS easily (if the miners agreed)
sr. member
Activity: 288
Merit: 250
ManualMiner
exchanges should make it impossible to fill your own orders.

Not a chance.  It removes the option of "cross trades".

e.g You are a broker who has order to buy 200 and sell 100.

The broker would then buy 100 and then "cross" 100, resulting in 200 bought and 100 sold.

This is critical in open outcry exchanges.

plz, could you explain that for a 5year old? thx
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007

what does "bitcoin days destroyed" mean exactly???


It's really simple once you "get it" but it took me a while to wrap my head around it too.  I'll try:

If you send me 1 BTC and I spend it tomorrow, when I spend it, I will have destroyed 1 bitcoin-days.

If I wait till next month to spend it, when I spend it it will destroy 30 bitcoin-days.  

But I you send my 60 BTC and I spend them 12 hours from now, it would also destroy 30 bitcoin-days.  

So, it's a combined measure of the magnitude and oldness of the coins that are being spent.  If we see a huge spike in the amount of bitcoin-days destroyed, it's a good indication that someone just moved a lot of old coins.  

Interestingly: something akin to bitcoin-days is used by the bitcoin-network to determine the priority of a transaction.  AFAIK:

   priority = (# of BTC) * (age) / (size of TX in bytes)
hero member
Activity: 531
Merit: 501
Get your tinfoil hats on! Whomever is manipulating the price to keep it in this narrow range is going to run out of bitcoins eventually ;-)

I hear bitcoin days destroyed is goin crazy so maybe it's some of the early adopters at work... trying to keep the financial apocalypse at bay for just a little while longer...  Grin Grin Grin

Looks normal to me, perhaps even a bit low: https://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed

It does feel like the price is being stabilized through some active effort.  But, if that's the case, are they running out of bitcoins or dollars?

Hmm, that's an interesting idea: run a "market stabilizer bot" for a month (with really deep pockets).  Eventually you'll either have too many bitcoins or too many USDs.  You now know the direction the market wants to move before every one else.  I wonder (but doubt) if such a scheme could be profitable....

what does "bitcoin days destroyed" mean exactly???


If an address with 1 BTC which hasn't moved for 100 days is spent today then "100 Bitcoin days" have been destroyed or if 0.5 BTC hasn't been spent for 1000 days and it's spent today then "500 Bitcoin days" have been destroyed. You sum up all the days destroyed to get a total and people try to draw inferences from the number.
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