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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 30047. (Read 26709945 times)

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
The latter has the potential of actually creating new wealth by doing a useful service to society, namely allowing cheap international payments without direct bank intervention.  It is debatable how much that service will be worth (in concrete terms; say, how much more bread and wine the world will produce thanks to it).  It coud be a lot --- but certainly a lot less than what Bitcoin salesmen claim.

Not merely International payments.  Card swipe fees are a 3% tax on the GDP.  Financialization has created some small efficiencies at a vast social and economic cost, which can be slowly removed through the deleveraging effects of counterparty-free cryptographic economy.

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Investing and speculating in bitcoins does not create any wealth.  

That observation may be a bit facile.  Liquidity is a huge boon, for example.  Comparing bitcoin to equities is more likely to lead you astray than to guide you to a useful conclusion.

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Bitcoin trade is pure speculation, since none of the money that people spent buying bitcoins, from day zero, was loaned to the network to build its infrastructure or to pay his workers.  


Where do you think the profits of the miners come from?  From buyers of bitcoin.  Speculators are among the major buyers of bitcoin.  Indeed, until very recently, only speculators and drug users were meaningful purchasers.  They paid for the network.

I am sure that you are making an intellectually honest effort to assess the facts and import of Bitcoin technology, but I get the impression that your political preconceptions are undermining those efforts in some ways, to some degree.
sr. member
Activity: 346
Merit: 250
the question is:

Will the Chinese dump all their money into the market before its illegal or will they pump out all their money that is left.

Question of if its going to a big rise or a big fall.

A more pertinent question is:  Do you, or even I, who consider myself well informed on PRC internal matters, even have the ability to understand the meaning of "legal" in China, let alone the legal status of BTCChina's current arrangement with Shanghai Pudong.

imho its just a matter of mass interpretation. no need to get the right information, the market should move before it even gets it. after all, we, humans, are mostly led by our emotions. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005

Interesting. I can see why distress in emerging markets would be good for Bitcoin, and I predict a whole lot more distress to come. Not happy about that even if it will be good for my bottom line. Lotta people gonna get hurt. They'll get less hurt if they buy some bitcoin.

All headlines about financial events are always composed in the following manner:

[as|after|despite]

The second part after the "as" is chosen randomly. Its sole purpose is to make it appear as if they were able to understand or explain what is going on. You will not find a single news source that would ever publish an article about a currency or commodity or stock rising or falling without the obligatory "as"-clause attached to it in the headline, no matter how absurd it may seem:

"Bitcoin drops as emerging market concerns ease"
"Bitcoin drops as Fed is cutting stimulus further"
"Bitcoin drops after disappointing Apple report"
"Bitcoin drops despite disappointing Apple report"
"Bitcoin drops as Google Doodle celebrates Year of the Horse"
"Bitcoin drops despite 6-time All-Star Lance Berkman announcing retirement"
"Bitcoin drops as Justin Bieber is charged with Toronto limo driver assault"

"Bitcoin rallies as emerging market concerns ease"
"Bitcoin rallies despite Fed cutting stimulus further"
"Bitcoin rallies after disappointing Apple report"
"Bitcoin rallies despite disappointing Apple report"
"Bitcoin rallies as Google Doodle celebrates Year of the Horse"
"Bitcoin rallies as 6-time All-Star Lance Berkman announces retirement"
"Bitcoin rallies as Justin Bieber is charged with Toronto limo driver assault"



This is correct. We need a name for this syndrome.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
the question is:

Will the Chinese dump all their money into the market before its illegal or will they pump out all their money that is left.

Question of if its going to a big rise or a big fall.

A more pertinent question is:  Do you, or even I, who consider myself well informed on PRC internal matters, even have the ability to understand the meaning of "legal" in China, let alone the legal status of BTCChina's current arrangement with Shanghai Pudong.
sr. member
Activity: 346
Merit: 250
Huabi has fake traffic.

Gox and okcoin too, I wonder what percentage of trades aren't fake - mine are real, I promise Smiley

stamp isnt that much moving anyway Smiley
full member
Activity: 187
Merit: 100
Sorry if this is old, wish I could have watched this live, but at 34:15 (1st panel of day 2) that second law guy nearly slips up and uses the term crypto currency instead of the term he was told to use, "virtual currency"

Virtual currency is another catch phrase that they want to embed in the subconscious. Virtual currency is very different from crypto currency. Crypto is the term I would use to define a currency protected by cryptography, like bitcoin. Virtual is the term I would use to define Amazon bucks, or WoW gold, or USD; these are currencies that are centralized and controlled. Crypto currency is neither centralized, nor controlled, and I think that would scare them to death, if they only understood.

Yep. I think the endgame for them is probably a virtual dollar. No more hiding stacks of bills in the mattress. When they want to give you a haircut, they just press the button and bam, you're worth 80% of what you were.

That's a good argument for gold and silver.  I wonder how many posting here also invest in physical precious metals?

The U.S. Government stole most of the private gold held by Americans in 1933. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 The precedent was set and they could easily do it again. Good luck trying to steal bitcoins. Private keys? What private keys? I lost/destroyed/exposed/ate them. Good luck hiding gold in a brain wallet.
  I had heard that most people did not turn in their gold during the U.S. confiscation.  Silver was untouched.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
The U.S. Government stole most of the private gold held by Americans in 1933. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 The precedent was set and they could easily do it again. Good luck trying to steal bitcoins. Private keys? What private keys? I lost/destroyed/exposed/ate them. Good luck hiding gold in a brain wallet.


Yes, i lost my PM's on a boating trip last year. PM's will soar once the paper and physical price decouples, but they can probably extent the manipulation a few more years, and will do this again after a major collapse, PM's are NOT the solution, it's just my insurance, BTC could be the solution.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
This is pretty funny.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-29/difference-between-gold-and-bitcoin-explained-elliotts-paul-singer

in other words, "don't invest your money in these new-fangled automobiles. Horses have stood the test of time." this from a guy managing a 23.3 billion dollar horse farm.

Talk your book, much?

The human brain is fantastic at rationalizing stuff. It's a learned skill to step outside of that and examine ones beliefs. Self examination brings insight. Most people aren't even aware of what they're doing.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
Sorry if this is old, wish I could have watched this live, but at 34:15 (1st panel of day 2) that second law guy nearly slips up and uses the term crypto currency instead of the term he was told to use, "virtual currency"

Virtual currency is another catch phrase that they want to embed in the subconscious. Virtual currency is very different from crypto currency. Crypto is the term I would use to define a currency protected by cryptography, like bitcoin. Virtual is the term I would use to define Amazon bucks, or WoW gold, or USD; these are currencies that are centralized and controlled. Crypto currency is neither centralized, nor controlled, and I think that would scare them to death, if they only understood.

Yep. I think the endgame for them is probably a virtual dollar. No more hiding stacks of bills in the mattress. When they want to give you a haircut, they just press the button and bam, you're worth 80% of what you were.

That's a good argument for gold and silver.  I wonder how many posting here also invest in physical precious metals?

The U.S. Government stole most of the private gold held by Americans in 1933. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 The precedent was set and they could easily do it again. Good luck trying to steal bitcoins. Private keys? What private keys? I lost/destroyed/exposed/ate them. Good luck hiding gold in a brain wallet.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Sorry if this is old, wish I could have watched this live, but at 34:15 (1st panel of day 2) that second law guy nearly slips up and uses the term crypto currency instead of the term he was told to use, "virtual currency"

Virtual currency is another catch phrase that they want to embed in the subconscious. Virtual currency is very different from crypto currency. Crypto is the term I would use to define a currency protected by cryptography, like bitcoin. Virtual is the term I would use to define Amazon bucks, or WoW gold, or USD; these are currencies that are centralized and controlled. Crypto currency is neither centralized, nor controlled, and I think that would scare them to death, if they only understood.

Yep. I think the endgame for them is probably a virtual dollar. No more hiding stacks of bills in the mattress. When they want to give you a haircut, they just press the button and bam, you're worth 80% of what you were.

That's a good argument for gold and silver.  I wonder how many posting here also invest in physical precious metals?

Yes, I was a PM stacker before i discovered bitcoin and i still own PM.
full member
Activity: 187
Merit: 100
Sorry if this is old, wish I could have watched this live, but at 34:15 (1st panel of day 2) that second law guy nearly slips up and uses the term crypto currency instead of the term he was told to use, "virtual currency"

Virtual currency is another catch phrase that they want to embed in the subconscious. Virtual currency is very different from crypto currency. Crypto is the term I would use to define a currency protected by cryptography, like bitcoin. Virtual is the term I would use to define Amazon bucks, or WoW gold, or USD; these are currencies that are centralized and controlled. Crypto currency is neither centralized, nor controlled, and I think that would scare them to death, if they only understood.

Yep. I think the endgame for them is probably a virtual dollar. No more hiding stacks of bills in the mattress. When they want to give you a haircut, they just press the button and bam, you're worth 80% of what you were.

That's a good argument for gold and silver.  I wonder how many posting here also invest in physical precious metals?
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
I think the reason they are going to try to vilify bitcoin and try to regulate the shit out of it is so that they can maintain their monopoly on the money laundering business.  


They want their slice of the pie. Preferably a bigger slice than yours.

Government is a monopoly on force. They are little better than bandits.

Worse. Bandits don't expect you to be grateful, don't pretend to be acting in your best interest.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
Cyrus R. Vance
The guy I compared to Hitler, yes.
Quote
they are going to try to ... regulate the shit out of it is so that they can maintain their monopoly on the money laundering business.  
Close enough, yeah.  But try is an illusion.  There is no try.  There is only fail.

I knew that would be out there already... Smiley

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
Sorry if this is old, wish I could have watched this live, but at 34:15 (1st panel of day 2) that second law guy nearly slips up and uses the term crypto currency instead of the term he was told to use, "virtual currency"

Virtual currency is another catch phrase that they want to embed in the subconscious. Virtual currency is very different from crypto currency. Crypto is the term I would use to define a currency protected by cryptography, like bitcoin. Virtual is the term I would use to define Amazon bucks, or WoW gold, or USD; these are currencies that are centralized and controlled. Crypto currency is neither centralized, nor controlled, and I think that would scare them to death, if they only understood.

Yep. I think the endgame for them is probably a virtual dollar. No more hiding stacks of bills in the mattress. When they want to give you a haircut, they just press the button and bam, you're worth 80% of what you were.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2373
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
I think the reason they are going to try to vilify bitcoin and try to regulate the shit out of it is so that they can maintain their monopoly on the money laundering business.  


They want their slice of the pie. Preferably a bigger slice than yours.

Government is a monopoly on force. They are little better than bandits.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Huobi just exploded..

thought it might, back to 1200 tomorrow!
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
Ye except poker is a job for a decent chunk of people playing on these sites. I myself have friends who were forced to move outside of US just to continue playing.

I just wanted to emphasise the fact that there is a big creation of wealth with bitcoin that other activities don't provide.

How? It's made some individuals wealthy, but only because other individuals have put money in, and those individuals are reliant on other new individuals putting money in to make their own returns. Bitcoin does not create money, it just moves it around. Only governments create money.

Bitcoin increases transactional efficiency, therefore in creates wealth or more accurately destroys less wealth than alternative forms of value transfer. There is a difference between wealth and money. Money is a representation of wealth, but by increasing the money supply, governments dilute the value of each unit of currency.
full member
Activity: 294
Merit: 100
Huobi just exploded..
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
I was just checking out the Troll Box at BTC-E.  One of the trolls was saying; Stupid BTC, why won't you crash!  lol

Yes, classic case of bear tears.
full member
Activity: 187
Merit: 100
I was just checking out the Troll Box at BTC-E.  One of the trolls was saying; Stupid BTC, why won't you crash!  lol
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