Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 30604.

Richy_T

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Quote from: mellowyellow on December 30, 2013, 07:56:00 PM

I've no doubt manipulation is going on, that's what happens when humans trade in something with no regulation. As a trader I need to be aware of it and profit from it when I can. It does make trading difficult atm though with such low volume because all it takes it ONE whale to sell a couple of hundred btc and all of a sudden we're crashing.

My biggest fear for btc in the very long term is not manipulation but the 173k btc the FBI have confiscated from the closing of Silk Rd. I understand Ulbricht has claimed the return of the btc, claiming that as virtual currency they cannot be forfeit as a proceed of crime, but seeing that judges confiscate anything of value in such cases he's on pretty thin ice. I believe these coins will eventually end up in the hands of the US government who will have far too much power - just think, 173k coins all sold on same day. It's a while off (I've no idea when this is coming to court or how the US government usually deal with liquidation of confiscated assets) but this is what we should be worried about.

One question related to those funds is if some of them might belong to people who committed no crimes (or at least have not been convicted of them). I'm have little doubt (in fact, I pretty much know for sure) that there's precedent for the cops just keeping the whole lot but still.

F-bernanke

sr. member

Activity: 308

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Some action at stamp, guessing via bitfinex?

Erdogan

legendary

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Quote from: shmadz on December 31, 2013, 12:04:13 AM

[...]
I say gloves off, anything goes, let bitcoin regulate itself.

That's perfect. Gloves off. Bitcoin, the only gloves off-market.

ChartBuddy

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Macno

legendary

Activity: 984

Merit: 1000

Thx. Yes, I will stop using Gox, I promise, as soon as I`ve got everything out of there....Posted it in the withdrawal thread though it`s about Fiat. Did not know they where fucking up BTC withdrawals as well now. Never had that problem before.

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: macsga on December 31, 2013, 08:33:56 AM

Quote from: NewLiberty on December 31, 2013, 08:08:18 AM

Quote from: aminorex on December 31, 2013, 03:53:49 AM

mind you the bitcoin foundation would love it, say it legitimized bitcoin. i think they have no reason to live if they don't file an anti-trust action against APPL.

Picking an anti-trust fight with AAPL? Even if fun to watch it would sink them completely and gain us very little. Bitcoin doesn't need AAPL as much as AAPL needs bitcoin. Let them be the late adopters.

Bitcoin is the means; ie: the protocol, on which applications run; like messages/monetary transactions and probably many more to come in the future. Or if you prefer "the river" that many "boats" will be floating. Whether a company (no matter how big or small) decides to (or not to) incorporate it to their marketing philosophy it's really their call. Eric Schmidt from Google yesterday said in an interview that "We should have been into social networking earlier". Maybe it's Apple's turn to pay (or not) the price for not getting into bitcoin.

This new year will really be a huge turn for Bitcoin. I'm not sure if it's $10000 or $10 by this time next year; but what I have to stand for is this: It's a brand new innovative tech that it's similar to no other. The thing we have to answer to ourselves is: Is the world ready for such a technology? Only time will tell. Roll Eyes

AAPL can afford the US$10000 coins a lot more easily than most.

Luzio

newbie

Activity: 51

Merit: 0

Quote from: Macno on December 31, 2013, 08:23:16 AM

Does anyone know where to post that a 5 BTC withdrawal I did 3,5 hours ago on MtGox hasn`t still been processed? Their customer service does not answer yet. On Gox is does not show up as pending, but as done (in the history).

There is a thread somewhere in service discussions. Unfortunately this is normal, it happened to me quite a few times. You will have your coins tomorrow hopefully and support will reply in a week. Just stop using Gox.

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

Quote from: NewLiberty on December 31, 2013, 08:08:18 AM

Quote from: aminorex on December 31, 2013, 03:53:49 AM

mind you the bitcoin foundation would love it, say it legitimized bitcoin. i think they have no reason to live if they don't file an anti-trust action against APPL.

Picking an anti-trust fight with AAPL? Even if fun to watch it would sink them completely and gain us very little. Bitcoin doesn't need AAPL as much as AAPL needs bitcoin. Let them be the late adopters.

Bitcoin is the means; ie: the protocol, on which applications run; like messages/monetary transactions and probably many more to come in the future. Or if you prefer "the river" that many "boats" will be floating. Whether a company (no matter how big or small) decides to (or not to) incorporate it to their marketing philosophy it's really their call. Eric Schmidt from Google yesterday said in an interview that "We should have been into social networking earlier". Maybe it's Apple's turn to pay (or not) the price for not getting into bitcoin.

This new year will really be a huge turn for Bitcoin. I'm not sure if it's $10000 or $10 by this time next year; but what I have to stand for is this: It's a brand new innovative tech that it's similar to no other. The thing we have to answer to ourselves is: Is the world ready for such a technology? Only time will tell. Roll Eyes

NewLiberty

legendary

Activity: 1204

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: Macno on December 31, 2013, 08:23:16 AM

Does anyone know where to post that a 5 BTC withdrawal I did 3,5 hours ago on MtGox hasn`t still been processed? Their customer service does not answer yet. On Gox is does not show up as pending, but as done (in the history).

There is a 136 page thread on that here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179586.2700;topicseen

Macno

legendary

Activity: 984

Merit: 1000

Does anyone know where to post that a 5 BTC withdrawal I did 3,5 hours ago on MtGox hasn`t still been processed? Their customer service does not answer yet. On Gox is does not show up as pending, but as done (in the history).

NewLiberty

legendary

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: aminorex on December 31, 2013, 03:53:49 AM

mind you the bitcoin foundation would love it, say it legitimized bitcoin. i think they have no reason to live if they don't file an anti-trust action against APPL.

Picking an anti-trust fight with AAPL? Even if fun to watch it would sink them completely and gain us very little. Bitcoin doesn't need AAPL as much as AAPL needs bitcoin. Let them be the late adopters.

NewLiberty

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: OldGeek on December 31, 2013, 02:47:59 AM

Interesting discussions these last few hours.

Let me ask you, who are smarter than I, what do you think would be the effect on the western markets if, say Huobi, crashed to zero in the next 24 hours?

Silly question, but OK...
We'd buy their coins cheaply. Some would be sold to pay for the cost (but at a cost of "zero" probably not many sold at all)

ChartBuddy

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wachtwoord

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Quote from: molecular on December 31, 2013, 07:54:28 AM

There's a german (maybe universal, don't know) saying in support of your "flow" argument: "Geld muss fliessen" (money must flow).

Geld moet rollen Cheesy

(money should roll)

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

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Quote from: NewLiberty on December 31, 2013, 07:47:15 AM

Quote from: Walsoraj on December 30, 2013, 07:07:34 PM

Quote from: virtualfaqs on December 30, 2013, 07:05:05 PM

Quote from: Walsoraj on December 30, 2013, 06:56:14 PM

If major retailers, such as Overstock.com, intend to immediately convert bitcoins to fiat, then is spending bitcoins equivalent to selling on an exchange? If so, there is little incentive to spend because it adversely impacts your investment, unless sufficient new fiat is flowing into the exchanges to offset your bitcoin purchases.

2014 could turn out to be a very bad year for bulls if too many large merchants decide to accept bitcoin. Cheesy

Isn't what BitPay does with its BTC more important then what Overstock does with it? Or maybe we can start a whole new group of activists who support merchants who don't instantly covert their BTC to fiat at the POS.

Well, the point is that more merchants accepting bitcoin is typically viewed as bullish. I disagree if the merchants intend to immediately convert back to fiat. Overstock has already announced it intends to do this to avoid price volatility.

Money flow, the speed of money.
What makes a currency, is the flow of it's current. If there is no flow, there is no currency.
More merchants make for more money flow. So yes It is bullish, even if you disagree.
A merchant converting to fiat does not reduce that flow, it just doesn't add to it as much as when the merchant uses it in their supply chain. Then it increases the flow further. It is a difference between a +1 and a +2 not the difference between a 0 and a +1.

There's a german (maybe universal, don't know) saying in support of your "flow" argument: "Geld muss fliessen" (money must flow).

I view merchant adoption as bullish in the mid/long-term (for the reason NewLiberty stated and because it increases adoption/visibility), although I have to attribute some truth to what Walsoraj says (*looks at goats Lamborghini*): people that already hold BTC will be increasingly tempted to spend at merchant who will usually insta-convert to USD via a payment service provider. Not all of them buy back the spent coins, so this can have a short-term downward impact on the exchange market.

;tldr: merchant adoption may be short-term bearish, but is certainly mid-/long-term bullish.

NewLiberty

legendary

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: Walsoraj on December 30, 2013, 07:07:34 PM

Quote from: virtualfaqs on December 30, 2013, 07:05:05 PM

Quote from: Walsoraj on December 30, 2013, 06:56:14 PM

If major retailers, such as Overstock.com, intend to immediately convert bitcoins to fiat, then is spending bitcoins equivalent to selling on an exchange? If so, there is little incentive to spend because it adversely impacts your investment, unless sufficient new fiat is flowing into the exchanges to offset your bitcoin purchases.

2014 could turn out to be a very bad year for bulls if too many large merchants decide to accept bitcoin. Cheesy

Isn't what BitPay does with its BTC more important then what Overstock does with it? Or maybe we can start a whole new group of activists who support merchants who don't instantly covert their BTC to fiat at the POS.

Well, the point is that more merchants accepting bitcoin is typically viewed as bullish. I disagree if the merchants intend to immediately convert back to fiat. Overstock has already announced it intends to do this to avoid price volatility.

Money flow, the speed of money.
What makes a currency, is the flow of it's current. If there is no flow, there is no currency.
More merchants make for more money flow. So yes It is bullish, even if you disagree.
A merchant converting to fiat does not reduce that flow, it just doesn't add to it as much as when the merchant uses it in their supply chain. Then it increases the flow further. It is a difference between a +1 and a +2 not the difference between a 0 and a +1.

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

Slow NYE. Bot's apocalypse in all exchanges...

Happy new year everyone. It's been a great one for us bitcoiners. Let's hope 2014 will be even better. Love peace and prosperity to all of you and your beloved ones.

ChartBuddy

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Davyd05

hero member

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Quote from: EuroTrash on December 31, 2013, 06:22:58 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

panic bought 710 coins and then panic sold 724 coins.

bitcoins give me too much stress at the moment. can't hodl them for too long. Sad

Go buy a Lambo if you're the legal age for driving one. That's likely more exciting than pouring your bored ego on a half dead bitcoin talk forum on NYE.

+1

buy two, one for fun and another to sell later Cheesy

EuroTrash

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

panic bought 710 coins and then panic sold 724 coins.

bitcoins give me too much stress at the moment. can't hodl them for too long. Sad

Go buy a Lambo if you're the legal age for driving one. That's likely more exciting than pouring your bored ego on a half dead bitcoin talk forum on NYE.

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