Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 31844.

nanobrain

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Dumb broad

Quote from: hlynur on November 20, 2013, 02:55:19 AM

noob question: how important is parabolic sar as an indicator?
1d charts for stamp and gox show that it flipped.
don't want to spread FUD, just want hear your opinions.

I'm not familiar with SAR (??) but I find EMA can give a good indication of trends; however, I don't think a daily chart provides particularly accurate info - the longer the time frame the more accurate TA becomes IMHO.

Indeed, there are a number of people here who argue that BTC is too new/volatile for TA and that fundamentals are a better guide.

NB I've only been trading since the beginning of the year although I've been aware of BTC since 2011 (I just stupidly didn't invest) - so what do I know Cry

tHash

sr. member

Activity: 260

Merit: 250

Quote from: BitThink on November 20, 2013, 03:05:26 AM

Yes, I agree. In my opinion, this kind of dump could be explained by one of the follows
1) failed manipulation
2) desperate for cash in urgent (doubt it due to the withdraw problem there)
3) insider trading (I don't know which news can dramatically crash BTC market now)
4) stolen BTCs (I heard Gox needs identification?)
5) arbitrage (are there some big buys that time in other exchanges?)
6) ... just crazy.

Any more explanations?

7) Someone who missed a chance to sell at a profit after the April correction, and thinks it is happening again and panics.
8 ) Manipulation that didn't fail, causes doubt about the market, follows up with more dumps, waits for full on panic.

maz

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: hlynur on November 20, 2013, 03:05:20 AM

Quote from: maz on November 20, 2013, 02:59:52 AM

Withdrew btc from Gox an hour ago and still not showing on the block chain. Here we go again, more gox-games.

sorry to hear that, waited for a withdrawal more than 24h some time ago. Undecided

perhaps you can post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324918.140
won't make your coins show up faster, but at least more users are informed this way

Cheers mate, I've posted up on it.

CoinDox

full member

Activity: 192

Merit: 100

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 03:02:17 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:48:54 AM

Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.

Yes, and the amount of interest drummed up in the last few days has assured that many people are trying to get money in. They may wait to see where we land, but everyone knows we will be back up to $900+ eventually. It would be awesome to consolidate for a few weeks, but I doubt we will be so lucky. You are new, listen to the likes of Nemesis. Not Blitz, he is not so bright with his "2011 all over" talk. Everything is crazy bullish right now. This is the best buying opportunity we will have for quite a while. Watch closely if you are waiting for a bottom, they happen fast and are gone. It may take a few days to sort this correction out, but it will be history soon enough. If I had any more fiat handy, I would be getting it ready to spend, alas I spent the last little bit I had at $180 after the crash from $233. At least I still have some $2 coins Grin

Seriously though, be careful, what you want is more BTC, not more fiat. Don't miss the boat because you are too bearish.

It is late and my apologies if I sound over-all bearish - I am but momentarily a bear. Crypto currencies are the future of commerce, that is clear, for many technical reasons. The question I wrestle with is will it be BTC in which the value of that technology will be stored?

BitThink

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

Quote from: DaRude on November 20, 2013, 02:57:03 AM

Well the only reason i can think of why someone would try to sell BTC10k around midnight US east coast time (and 0500 - 0600 in Europe) is to manipulate the market. Think we can all agree that if he wanted to cash out he could slowly sell of in smaller chunks and get MUCH more $ out. The sell brought gox down from 590 to 500 and subsequently to 475 on lower volume following up. If the goal was to induce panic so the whale could reenter at lower position think it's safe to say that so far he failed as the market held out pretty reasonably so far, and i feel will recover soon. Now if Gox had 70% of the market as in April this would've been much uglier. So unless the price drops down to $400s that manipulation stunt will cause our whale A LOT of $, and hopefully will deter other a$$holes from trying to manipulate the market (and we can get back to a more natural mass panic snow ball effects instead of one person instigating the avalanche) just my 2c

Yes, I agree. In my opinion, this kind of dump could be explained by one of the follows
1) failed manipulation
2) desperate for cash in urgent (doubt it due to the withdraw problem there)
3) insider trading (I don't know which news can dramatically crash BTC market now)
4) stolen BTCs (I heard Gox needs identification?)
5) arbitrage (are there some big buys that time in other exchanges?)
6) ... just crazy.

Any more explanations?

hlynur

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 501

Quote from: maz on November 20, 2013, 02:59:52 AM

Withdrew btc from Gox an hour ago and still not showing on the block chain. Here we go again, more gox-games.

sorry to hear that, waited for a withdrawal more than 24h some time ago. Undecided

perhaps you can post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324918.140
won't make your coins show up faster, but at least more users are informed this way

tHash

sr. member

Activity: 260

Merit: 250

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:48:54 AM

Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.

Yes, and the amount of interest drummed up in the last few days has assured that many people are trying to get money in. They may wait to see where we land, but everyone knows we will be back up to $900+ eventually. It would be awesome to consolidate for a few weeks, but I doubt we will be so lucky. You are new, listen to the likes of Nemesis. Not Blitz, he is not so bright with his "2011 all over" talk. Everything is crazy bullish right now. This is the best buying opportunity we will have for quite a while. Watch closely if you are waiting for a bottom, they happen fast and are gone. It may take a few days to sort this correction out, but it will be history soon enough. If I had any more fiat handy, I would be getting it ready to spend, alas I spent the last little bit I had at $180 after the crash from $233. At least I still have some $2 coins Grin

Seriously though, be careful, what you want is more BTC, not more fiat. Don't miss the boat because you are too bearish.

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

maz

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Withdrew btc from Gox an hour ago and still not showing on the block chain. Here we go again, more gox-games.

CoinDox

full member

Activity: 192

Merit: 100

Quote from: BitThink on November 20, 2013, 02:57:33 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:48:54 AM

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:44:41 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:40:16 AM

Quote from: BitThink on November 20, 2013, 02:34:37 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:26:56 AM

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:11:47 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:05:44 AM

Quote from: octaft on November 20, 2013, 01:52:24 AM

Quote from: molecular on November 20, 2013, 01:44:54 AM

It's still trading at these prices, though. They volume may be "fake", but not the price.

I'm not saying the volume is faked, because I really have no idea, but couldn't a big player use the lack of trading fees to their advantage by setting up big sell walls, buying them out, and creating the illusion of incredible buying pressure at no cost? Or vice versa, I suppose.

Someone gets it!

So, while the manipulators were hard at work at Gox, why did they not paint red tape in China, creating the illusion of incredible selling pressure? That would have helped drop the price quite a bit more. It could be done, but how much is it actually done? All we can do is speculate, and speculation by very nature is wrong at least as much as it is right.

This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.

Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.

Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.

For BTC prices to increases further, a lot of early adopters (holding with 2 digits cost BTCs) have to sell out their holdings. If they don't sell now, they will sell at $1000, $2000, ... eventually. Therefore, dumping actually means coins exchanged from people buying them at low price to those buying them high. Then the average cost of coins increases significantly, and that means we can expect stable increase to next height.

What?

It makes perfect sense. Coins that could have been acquired for much less, who knows maybe even pre 2013 prices, are sold for a handsome profit. Those coins now have a burden at the new purchase price. They are no longer $10 coins, they are $500 coins.

Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.

Yes, you are right. So the key is whether you are bullish or bearish in the long term, or in other words whether you believe BTC will finally go to mainstream (means much more $$ than now). If you believe in that, then all these up and downs do not matter so much and we know that all these big dumps along the way are inevitable. They are only meaningful to traders.

For trading, since BTC market is 24/7, it is better to rely on bot softwares. Otherwise, it's not worth sacrificing our life on it.

Agreed

BitThink

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:48:54 AM

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:44:41 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:40:16 AM

Quote from: BitThink on November 20, 2013, 02:34:37 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:26:56 AM

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:11:47 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:05:44 AM

Quote from: octaft on November 20, 2013, 01:52:24 AM

Quote from: molecular on November 20, 2013, 01:44:54 AM

It's still trading at these prices, though. They volume may be "fake", but not the price.

I'm not saying the volume is faked, because I really have no idea, but couldn't a big player use the lack of trading fees to their advantage by setting up big sell walls, buying them out, and creating the illusion of incredible buying pressure at no cost? Or vice versa, I suppose.

Someone gets it!

So, while the manipulators were hard at work at Gox, why did they not paint red tape in China, creating the illusion of incredible selling pressure? That would have helped drop the price quite a bit more. It could be done, but how much is it actually done? All we can do is speculate, and speculation by very nature is wrong at least as much as it is right.

This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.

Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.

Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.

For BTC prices to increases further, a lot of early adopters (holding with 2 digits cost BTCs) have to sell out their holdings. If they don't sell now, they will sell at $1000, $2000, ... eventually. Therefore, dumping actually means coins exchanged from people buying them at low price to those buying them high. Then the average cost of coins increases significantly, and that means we can expect stable increase to next height.

What?

It makes perfect sense. Coins that could have been acquired for much less, who knows maybe even pre 2013 prices, are sold for a handsome profit. Those coins now have a burden at the new purchase price. They are no longer $10 coins, they are $500 coins.

Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the system needs new $$ to operate.

Yes, you are right. So the key is whether you are bullish or bearish in the long term, or in other words whether you believe BTC will finally go to mainstream (means much more $$ than now). If you believe in that, then all these up and downs do not matter so much and we know that all these big dumps along the way are inevitable. They are only meaningful to traders.

For trading, since BTC market is 24/7, it is better to rely on bot softwares. Otherwise, it's not worth sacrificing our life on it.

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2833

Merit: 1851

In order to dump coins one must have coins

Well the only reason i can think of why someone would try to sell BTC10k around midnight US east coast time (and 0500 - 0600 in Europe) is to manipulate the market. Think we can all agree that if he wanted to cash out he could slowly sell of in smaller chunks and get MUCH more $ out. The sell brought gox down from 590 to 500 and subsequently to 475 on lower volume following up. If the goal was to induce panic so the whale could reenter at lower position think it's safe to say that so far he failed as the market held out pretty reasonably so far, and i feel will recover soon. Now if Gox had 70% of the market as in April this would've been much uglier. So unless the price drops down to $400s that manipulation stunt will cause our whale A LOT of $, and hopefully will deter other a$$holes from trying to manipulate the market (and we can get back to a more natural mass panic snow ball effects instead of one person instigating the avalanche) just my 2c

hlynur

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 501

noob question: how important is parabolic sar as an indicator?
1d charts for stamp and gox show that it flipped.
don't want to spread FUD, just want hear your opinions.

BitThink

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Marbit on November 20, 2013, 02:38:57 AM

you guys think this rally has steam left? we havent broken 400 yet. im holding but cant help but think this might be a long slow slide to <300

Then it will be a great chance to increase the holding.

CoinDox

full member

Activity: 192

Merit: 100

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:44:41 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:40:16 AM

Quote from: BitThink on November 20, 2013, 02:34:37 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:26:56 AM

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:11:47 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:05:44 AM

Quote from: octaft on November 20, 2013, 01:52:24 AM

Quote from: molecular on November 20, 2013, 01:44:54 AM

It's still trading at these prices, though. They volume may be "fake", but not the price.

I'm not saying the volume is faked, because I really have no idea, but couldn't a big player use the lack of trading fees to their advantage by setting up big sell walls, buying them out, and creating the illusion of incredible buying pressure at no cost? Or vice versa, I suppose.

Someone gets it!

So, while the manipulators were hard at work at Gox, why did they not paint red tape in China, creating the illusion of incredible selling pressure? That would have helped drop the price quite a bit more. It could be done, but how much is it actually done? All we can do is speculate, and speculation by very nature is wrong at least as much as it is right.

This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.

Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.

Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.

For BTC prices to increases further, a lot of early adopters (holding with 2 digits cost BTCs) have to sell out their holdings. If they don't sell now, they will sell at $1000, $2000, ... eventually. Therefore, dumping actually means coins exchanged from people buying them at low price to those buying them high. Then the average cost of coins increases significantly, and that means we can expect stable increase to next height.

What?

It makes perfect sense. Coins that could have been acquired for much less, who knows maybe even pre 2013 prices, are sold for a handsome profit. Those coins now have a burden at the new purchase price. They are no longer $10 coins, they are $500 coins.

Right... And as soon as those people who bought the coin for 500-1000-10000 whatever don't get 501-1001-10001 in return after X time then what happens? You see again, the market system needs new $$ to operate.

tHash

sr. member

Activity: 260

Merit: 250

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:40:16 AM

Quote from: BitThink on November 20, 2013, 02:34:37 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:26:56 AM

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:11:47 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:05:44 AM

Quote from: octaft on November 20, 2013, 01:52:24 AM

Quote from: molecular on November 20, 2013, 01:44:54 AM

It's still trading at these prices, though. They volume may be "fake", but not the price.

I'm not saying the volume is faked, because I really have no idea, but couldn't a big player use the lack of trading fees to their advantage by setting up big sell walls, buying them out, and creating the illusion of incredible buying pressure at no cost? Or vice versa, I suppose.

Someone gets it!

So, while the manipulators were hard at work at Gox, why did they not paint red tape in China, creating the illusion of incredible selling pressure? That would have helped drop the price quite a bit more. It could be done, but how much is it actually done? All we can do is speculate, and speculation by very nature is wrong at least as much as it is right.

This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.

Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.

Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.

For BTC prices to increases further, a lot of early adopters (holding with 2 digits cost BTCs) have to sell out their holdings. If they don't sell now, they will sell at $1000, $2000, ... eventually. Therefore, dumping actually means coins exchanged from people buying them at low price to those buying them high. Then the average cost of coins increases significantly, and that means we can expect stable increase to next height.

What?

It makes perfect sense. Coins that could have been acquired for much less, who knows maybe even pre 2013 prices, are sold for a handsome profit. Those coins now have a burden at the new purchase price. They are no longer $10 coins, they are $500 coins.

CoinDox

full member

Activity: 192

Merit: 100

Quote from: BitThink on November 20, 2013, 02:34:37 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:26:56 AM

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:11:47 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:05:44 AM

Quote from: octaft on November 20, 2013, 01:52:24 AM

Quote from: molecular on November 20, 2013, 01:44:54 AM

It's still trading at these prices, though. They volume may be "fake", but not the price.

I'm not saying the volume is faked, because I really have no idea, but couldn't a big player use the lack of trading fees to their advantage by setting up big sell walls, buying them out, and creating the illusion of incredible buying pressure at no cost? Or vice versa, I suppose.

Someone gets it!

So, while the manipulators were hard at work at Gox, why did they not paint red tape in China, creating the illusion of incredible selling pressure? That would have helped drop the price quite a bit more. It could be done, but how much is it actually done? All we can do is speculate, and speculation by very nature is wrong at least as much as it is right.

This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.

Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.

Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.

For BTC prices to increases further, a lot of early adopters (holding with 2 digits cost BTCs) have to sell out their holdings. If they don't sell now, they will sell at $1000, $2000, ... eventually. Therefore, dumping actually means coins exchanged from people buying them at low price to those buying them high. Then the average cost of coins increases significantly, and that means we can expect stable increase to next height.

What?

*edit* Read this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323988.0;all

Marbit

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

you guys think this rally has steam left? we havent broken 400 yet. im holding but cant help but think this might be a long slow slide to <300

CoinDox

full member

Activity: 192

Merit: 100

Quote from: BitThink on November 20, 2013, 02:27:58 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:12:58 AM

Can I also add to the conversation that fact that one of the most popular (and profitable) btc gambling sites went down MOMENTS into the first big crash from 900 levels on gox? I refer to primedice.

Some suspect he absconded with the funds and sold when he could https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.2140 (I know some may think of the commenter as a troll, but there is often truth hidden within the "spam" of some people). If that and the fact that some very established members have sold the majority of their holdings tells you nothing about what is will happen within the next little while... Well you are on your own.

You have emphasized that this is just for the 'next little while', so most people will not care so much. Yes, it may crash to $300, but it was the price just 3 days ago. What's the big deal?

If you want to sell now and buy back low enough, You have to watch the market 24/7 because no one could know when it will suddenly shoot up again.

Perhaps I misrepresented my former statement when I said " within the next little while," since a while in BTC terms now goes to mean hours lol

. But seriously, the events of this weekend will carry into the weeks ahead as the major catalyst for the BTC price (new-money) stagnates and reflects on the opportunity before them.

BitThink

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1000

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:26:56 AM

Quote from: tHash on November 20, 2013, 02:11:47 AM

Quote from: CoinDox on November 20, 2013, 02:05:44 AM

Quote from: octaft on November 20, 2013, 01:52:24 AM

Quote from: molecular on November 20, 2013, 01:44:54 AM

It's still trading at these prices, though. They volume may be "fake", but not the price.

I'm not saying the volume is faked, because I really have no idea, but couldn't a big player use the lack of trading fees to their advantage by setting up big sell walls, buying them out, and creating the illusion of incredible buying pressure at no cost? Or vice versa, I suppose.

Someone gets it!

So, while the manipulators were hard at work at Gox, why did they not paint red tape in China, creating the illusion of incredible selling pressure? That would have helped drop the price quite a bit more. It could be done, but how much is it actually done? All we can do is speculate, and speculation by very nature is wrong at least as much as it is right.

This last sell off was not market manipulation nor was it intended to drive prices down to buy the dip... It was stated earlier that the gox errors were due to a fail-safe put in place to protect against large dumps. What this last day or two represents is an actual transfer of major btc holdings to fiat as large holders sold into the demand built up over the last week.

Let me put it this way. In a market in which holding is more profitable than shorting, driving price up significantly requires actual people buying into the market, which means it requires a lot of capital $$. Driving price down however, requires dumping a "few" (what were once very cheap and plentiful) coins into the market.

Ask yourselves, how can it be that BTC increases in value? It is none other than more people ($$) entering the system.

For BTC prices to increases further, a lot of early adopters (holding with 2 digits cost BTCs) have to sell out their holdings. If they don't sell now, they will sell at $1000, $2000, ... eventually. Therefore, dumping actually means coins exchanged from people buying them at low price to those buying them high. Then the average cost of coins increases significantly, and that means we can expect stable increase to next height.

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 31844. (Read 26712838 times)