Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 32600. (Read 26470714 times)
July 16, 2013, 08:01:50 PM
July 16, 2013, 07:52:07 PM
Thanks Frozenlock again for 2011 charts.
Weeee.... to da _______ (moon?)
Weeee.... to da _______ (moon?)
July 16, 2013, 07:29:57 PM
I believe they call this stage 'denial'
A friendly reminder from a 2011 survivor.
I'll say again:
Weeeeee....
They never listen...
July 16, 2013, 07:27:46 PM
Price isn't driven by miners, but by traders and commodity speculation as has been amply demonstrated elsewhere.
This.
It's obvious that price is not driven by difficulty, but inflation does have an impact on price - at this stage inflation in BTC its non negligible, and its in fact built into the system to pay for the work and costs of mining during the early days of Bitcoin. Thus, looking at growing difficulty and expecting growing price is a fallacy (in fact its the other way around) - but nevertheless Bitcoin is currently inflating at a 12.5% yearly rate, and what miners do with those newly minted coints has inevitably an impact on price.
I believe that there will be lots of newly minted coins hitting the exchanges in late 2013, will just wait and see.
EDIT: in fewer words, wether miners decide to speculate (holding) or to pay for their fiat costs (selling the coins for good) has inevitably an immediate impact on price.
this is like concentrating on only one of your girlfriends butt cheaks, you know very well what the counter argument is.
Inflation rate of 12.5%, how is that even a point?
That's the fifth year in Bitcoin Survival= even if we assume linear and not exponential spread in bitcoin awareness, that's 20% more people using and storing value in BTC.
-7.5%
I love this bears latching onto a miners value case- they attribute psychological values wherever they please... when the price rose it was because everyone wanted to buy btc to buy asicminers, but asicminer wasn't selling his btc, even though 'asicminer is running it as a business' like they like to say whenever it suits them. suddenly asicminer and all the miners want to sell all their coins and only if the price dips, which is when they panic and drive the price further.
What about last year, when inflation rate was 25%, how come the price went up 1000%... and the year before when it was 40%, why did it go up 1000%? frankly if miners drive price I'm surprised it isn't at -0.1 cent
He didn't say difficulty drives price, he said it has a non negligible influence. Your numbers seem to support that. That said, I agree that counting on miners to sell out is a horrible assumption.
During the bear market in 2011 supply exceeded demand at a certain point and obviously the exchange rate tanked, and obviously the miners also had their role in that. What I never said is that miners were the ones causing the bear market, the bear market was caused by the bubble pop, and I just think that the same conditions can be met this year.
What a lot of rubbish. You haven't seen anything, you're just a bear and you've been jumping on bearish reasonings for ages.
All this aggressivity towards bearish opinions is amusing and quite telling. I'm not "jumping" on anything, I write what I see. If I'm mistaken and the price goes only UP from here, I will be very happy, I guarantee you that.
July 16, 2013, 07:25:21 PM
This is the problem. Where did the get the money for all this shit. Asicminer can't sell, as they would crash the price and nobody would buy asicminer...they must first sell their stuff and then they can sell bitcoins. The prices in bitcoins seem high, as they know they can't sell 100k bitcoins at market price.
Great! a conspiracy theory, even though they 'were acting like a business and had to sell at the time' they didn't but when the price drops a little they will panic and sell it 'because they're a business'
maybe just more investors keep investing because its finite and you can store in your brain, so everyone hoards and everyones in on the conspiracy.
hah if i were them i'd sell the shares for BTC
July 16, 2013, 07:15:28 PM
This is your daily bear FUD.
The FIRST leg down in 2011:
Which wasn't the last.
The FIRST leg down in 2011:
Which wasn't the last.
July 16, 2013, 07:14:32 PM
There was a discussion earlier about the ASIC race. This will set new levels, i think.....
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2744376
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2744376
Too many ASIC promises.
I wanna see them working.
July 16, 2013, 07:01:56 PM
July 16, 2013, 06:57:51 PM
There was a discussion earlier about the ASIC race. This will set new levels, i think.....
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2744376
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2744376
July 16, 2013, 06:48:55 PM
I've bought quite some coins from Bitstamp in the last few days, selling most of them in batches on Gox @100$ with 4-6% profit.
Now i decided to liquidate remaining coins @97$, i just don't like how charts look.
Now i decided to liquidate remaining coins @97$, i just don't like how charts look.
I did almost the same. Taking a small profit as things are starting to look like we're in for another long slide. I kept a few coins though, in case we unexpectedly go up.
Despite that, I would prefer if this bounce was the one. Don't care so much about bearish opportunities. Screw that.
July 16, 2013, 06:22:34 PM
I've bought quite some coins from Bitstamp in the last few days, selling most of them in batches on Gox @100$ with 4-6% profit.
Now i decided to liquidate remaining coins @97$, i just don't like how charts look.
Now i decided to liquidate remaining coins @97$, i just don't like how charts look.
July 16, 2013, 06:20:29 PM
This is the problem. Where did the get the money for all this shit. Asicminer can't sell, as they would crash the price and nobody would buy asicminer...they must first sell their stuff and then they can sell bitcoins. The prices in bitcoins seem high, as they know they can't sell 100k bitcoins at market price.
Great! a conspiracy theory, even though they 'were acting like a business and had to sell at the time' they didn't but when the price drops a little they will panic and sell it 'because they're a business'
maybe just more investors keep investing because its finite and you can store in your brain, so everyone hoards and everyones in on the conspiracy.
panic sell brain Ah, just Speculation July 16, 2013, 06:01:51 PM
July 16, 2013, 06:00:16 PM
This is the problem. Where did the get the money for all this shit. Asicminer can't sell, as they would crash the price and nobody would buy asicminer...they must first sell their stuff and then they can sell bitcoins. The prices in bitcoins seem high, as they know they can't sell 100k bitcoins at market price.
Great! a conspiracy theory, even though they 'were acting like a business and had to sell at the time' they didn't but when the price drops a little they will panic and sell it 'because they're a business'
maybe just more investors keep investing because its finite and you can store in your brain, so everyone hoards and everyones in on the conspiracy.
July 16, 2013, 05:34:13 PM
problem is, allot of those miners won't get ROI for many months. Knowing this, I would expect most (except for those who took out loans) to choose to wait for higher prices before getting their fiat back.
Exactly, I dont see why on this forums people seem to think that miners want to get ROI as soon as possible. I think 90% of them will just mine and hoard, for years
Most of GPU miners didn't want ROI as soon as possible, as I explained earlier - they counted on reselling their GPUs, and they were mostly hobbyist. But I'm a miner myself, I know a lot of miners, I've seen in first person who are the customers of companies like KnC and how much they are spending, and you have to understand that this last media bubble exposed Bitcoin to a lot of new and uneducated people who run profit calculators at current difficulty (without having their miners yet), they do not even understand that difficulty is growing exponentially, and at the end of the day there is a "gold rush" in which a lot of new people is entering mining because they think they will get rich quick... So we have now a) a lot of individuals investing money they cannot afford to lose on BTC miners, and as you surely know there is a "get-rich-quick" feeling on BTC - they think they will recoup their investment FAST, and this is why they are putting in this game more money they should; b) there are more and more "professional" miners that are investing money in mining with the only intention of generating profit - they will run their operations as a business. That people has to pay for huge electricity costs, renting of industrial places where they will host their operations, etc. etc. etc. A lot of fiat expenses to cover.
During the GPU era, I rarely saw a) and b) miners, most were small-time hobbyist, running their rigs in their bedrooms. During this change to ASIC, I'm seeing a lot of both a) and b). This people needs to recoup fiat ASAP.
I can't imagine too much of an influx of people that don't understand mining economics that spend money on anything more than a jalepeno
+1
The big guys know what they are doing or are at least seeking the advisement of someone who does.
July 16, 2013, 05:33:26 PM
problem is, allot of those miners won't get ROI for many months. Knowing this, I would expect most (except for those who took out loans) to choose to wait for higher prices before getting their fiat back.
Exactly, I dont see why on this forums people seem to think that miners want to get ROI as soon as possible. I think 90% of them will just mine and hoard, for years
Most of GPU miners didn't want ROI as soon as possible, as I explained earlier - they counted on reselling their GPUs, and they were mostly hobbyist. But I'm a miner myself, I know a lot of miners, I've seen in first person who are the customers of companies like KnC and how much they are spending, and you have to understand that this last media bubble exposed Bitcoin to a lot of new and uneducated people who run profit calculators at current difficulty (without having their miners yet), they do not even understand that difficulty is growing exponentially, and at the end of the day there is a "gold rush" in which a lot of new people is entering mining because they think they will get rich quick... So we have now a) a lot of individuals investing money they cannot afford to lose on BTC miners, and as you surely know there is a "get-rich-quick" feeling on BTC - they think they will recoup their investment FAST, and this is why they are putting in this game more money they should; b) there are more and more "professional" miners that are investing money in mining with the only intention of generating profit - they will run their operations as a business. That people has to pay for huge electricity costs, renting of industrial places where they will host their operations, etc. etc. etc. A lot of fiat expenses to cover.
During the GPU era, I rarely saw a) and b) miners, most were small-time hobbyist, running their rigs in their bedrooms. During this change to ASIC, I'm seeing a lot of both a) and b). This people needs to recoup fiat ASAP.
I can't imagine too much of an influx of people that don't understand mining economics that spend money on anything more than a jalepeno.
July 16, 2013, 05:01:56 PM
July 16, 2013, 04:41:48 PM
what miners do with those newly minted coints has inevitably an impact on price.
What they are doing with those coins should be fairly easy to analyse. I believe there is a site out there that shows how long coins are stagnant for.
Shhh.... we don't like facts and data here.
July 16, 2013, 04:39:19 PM
what miners do with those newly minted coints has inevitably an impact on price.
What they are doing with those coins should be fairly easy to analyse. I believe there is a site out there that shows how long coins are stagnant for.
July 16, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
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