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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 33588. (Read 26495078 times)

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
"to be or not to be, that is the bitcoin"

anyone care to speculate what happens to all the orders from 80-90ish down to $10 if we don't start heading that way in the coming weeks?

My understanding, mostly from reading this thread filled with comments from bitcoiners who've been around longer than myself, is that cheap coins are wanted.


If cheap coins slowly become less of a possiblity, does this make expensive coins more attractive, or the price too high and fiat preferable?

(aside: looks like I'm developing a habit to dig up older posts. oh well)

That's the million dollar question, I'd say. Here's a somewhat related observation I made during the last days:

Take the order book. (ignore for a moment the objection that some/many/all of the orders are fake). The last days saw a rather drastic increase of the bid sum/ask sum ratio (visualized nicely on blockchained). There's another calculation I make routinely, seeing how far the price would go in either directions if the entire bid sum or ask sum (or parts of it) were executed as market orders. Don't know if that technique has a fancy name (maybe 'market execution price'?), but it takes into account not only the order totals but also the price distribution.

Okay, here's the observation: the average of that execution price was rising even more sharply than the bid sum/ask sum ratio lately. Which means not only did more money enter the order book (and/or coins left it), but that order prices appreciated as well.

The conclusion I draw is that a big reason why we saw the current upward breakout is that a) new orders were placed (duh!), and b) buyers adjusted their existing orders after realizing that their overly optimistic price setting for entering the market won't be met anytime soon (less of a duh). And I suspect this trend will continue.

brilliant, thanks for the response. This makes sense
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
117.61 to 118.35

so boring
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
This account was recently hacked
ClarkMoody tracker seems to be down, maybe it got bored and fell asleep.  Not much happening right now anyway.  Bitcoinity is still working though
Our old friend ChartBuddy's still awake it seems
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
My gut is screaming bull trap

My gut is screaming bull trap, bear market, capitulation, and bear trap all at the same time.


Getting mixed signals here.

Once, when asked about his gut feeling, Carl Sagan said: "I'd really rather not think with my gut, my brain does the job a lot better"  Grin

Don't prodigies and athletes use the least amount of brain power? In fact high level operation has often been (curiously) linked to lower brain activity. Perhaps this has something to do with the subconscious. Anyways, I'm sticking to what I thought 10 or so days ago: downtrend.

Edit: that being said... I'm getting super impatient.

This pretty much sums up the market at the moment. Everyone thinks they will be able to get cheaper coins... but the longer they wait, the less likely that becomes. Once the bids exceed the all time high (not far off), I can see a massive spell of panic buying ensuing.

I'm willing to buy back in at a loss, even if it makes me bleed out, it's been far too long for the case to be otherwise, however, I'm still kind of thinking that BTC is overvalued at the moment. I'm leaving emotion out of this. It seems like bulls are always the same, and while I'm not a bear I just can' see sustainable growth right now.

The Venture capital, techcrunch activity and China are all massive, massive indicators on a medium/ long term... which is why I'm surprised we are not seeing more activity. Seems many are like you, not noticing how big these impacts will be. When the products/ deals/ whatever they spawn are announced (or before they are announced), make no mistake, it will be vicious and many hoping for cheap coins will be left on the sidelines.

As you said those are all medium to long term plays, which means little incremental ups over a long extended period of time as milestones are met.  

Contrast that to Cyprus which was very short term, in your face, get your f--kin money out NOW! As that new flow came in, more people jumped on the band wagon.


See the difference?

Cyprus thing is a joke. That was just speculative mania. I will ask you something: have you invested significant money in Bitcoin? If the answer is yes, how long did it take from the first moment you heard about it?

Again: entering into Bitcoin is a lengthy process - first you have to understand, not only what is Bitcoin but also how to keep your bitcoins safe. Then you have to find out how to buy them, and then you slowly start pouring money, just a little a the beginning.

That's everybody's process. When it will come the day that the average citizen will have the understanding and the means to quickly throw a lot of fiat into Bitcoin after the kind of news we had in March, then.... Well, you cannot imagine the kind of huge motherfucking bubbles we are going to see.

I am only stating through those examples that you ought not be surprised that news has little significant immediate impact and that it correlates with insignificant up or down swings in the price of BTC since as you point out it is long term.  People will not learn this stuff over night.  

As for me I have not put 1 red cent into bitcoin.  Only sweat and brain power.  And it has treated me well. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1819
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1007

anyone care to speculate what happens to all the orders from 80-90ish down to $10 if we don't start heading that way in the coming weeks?

My understanding, mostly from reading this thread filled with comments from bitcoiners who've been around longer than myself, is that cheap coins are wanted.


If cheap coins slowly become less of a possiblity, does this make expensive coins more attractive, or the price too high and fiat preferable?

(aside: looks like I'm developing a habit to dig up older posts. oh well)

That's the million dollar question, I'd say. Here's a somewhat related observation I made during the last days:

Take the order book. (ignore for a moment the objection that some/many/all of the orders are fake). The last days saw a rather drastic increase of the bid sum/ask sum ratio (visualized nicely on blockchained). There's another calculation I make routinely, seeing how far the price would go in either directions if the entire bid sum or ask sum (or parts of it) were executed as market orders. Don't know if that technique has a fancy name (maybe 'market execution price'?), but it takes into account not only the order totals but also the price distribution.

Okay, here's the observation: the average of that execution price was rising even more sharply than the bid sum/ask sum ratio lately. Which means not only did more money enter the order book (and/or coins left it), but that order prices appreciated as well.

The conclusion I draw is that a big reason why we saw the current upward breakout is that a) new orders were placed (duh!), and b) buyers adjusted their existing orders after realizing that their overly optimistic price setting for entering the market won't be met anytime soon (less of a duh). And I suspect this trend will continue.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
This account was recently hacked
ClarkMoody tracker seems to be down, maybe it got bored and fell asleep.  Not much happening right now anyway.  Bitcoinity is still working though
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
Ultrabull is the default character selection in the Bitcoin MMO. Pretty much everyone starts out as one. Grin

Yeah, the ones who convert to the perma-bear side are the ones who already significantly cashed out - those really feel their butt hurt.

 Grin

lol! rage quitting is no way to go through life
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
Ultrabull is the default character selection in the Bitcoin MMO. Pretty much everyone starts out as one. Grin

Yeah, the ones who convert to the perma-bear side are the ones who already significantly cashed out - those really feel their butt hurt.

 Grin
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
Ultrabull is the default character selection in the Bitcoin MMO. Pretty much everyone starts out as one. Grin
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
Cyprus thing is a joke. That was just speculative mania. I will ask you something: have you invested significant money in Bitcoin? If the answer is yes, how long did it take from the first moment you heard about it?

Again: entering into Bitcoin is a lengthy process - first you have to understand, not only what is Bitcoin but also how to keep your bitcoins safe. Then you have to find out how to buy them, and then you slowly start pouring money, just a little a the beginning.

That's everybody's process. When it will come the day that the average citizen will have the understanding and the means to quickly throw a lot of fiat into Bitcoin after the kind of news we had in March, then.... Well, you cannot imagine the kind of huge motherfucking bubbles we are going to see.

I have to agree with this 100%.

It took me 1 week to put $17 cash into an envelope and mail it to canada to buy my first coins. 2 more weeks to have a miner setup and initiated a bank transfer to gox. I consider that pretty fast and that was only possible because I had all kinds of prerequisites already in place (understanding of crypto, understanding of double spend problem, understanding of p2p network). I had to talk to noone to confirm this thing was legit and most likely functional. There was no misleading press or ponzi accusations all over the net either, which should slow the process even more in this day and age.

Average nowadays is probably more like 6 weeks from first exposure to first substantial buy.

We're thinking too short-term. There's all kinds of buffers (delays) and feedback loops in this system that need time to play out.
Seconded.  If you're a goldbug libertarian with technical background and high risk tolerance, it's possible you might "get it" and buy relatively quickly, within a few weeks.  But that would be very unusual.  My experience with anyone lacking that magical quatrifecta, is that it takes months of investigating and being prodded before any action.  There are people I've been talking to about Bitcoin for almost two years, are positive about it, but still haven't pulled the trigger.

It took me more than a year of constant (weekly) highly intelligent exposure to bitcoin, before I bought any. It took an additional year and more, before I allocated a significant % of my holdings to it. I even knew of Bitcoin before Mt.Gox opened, and that was purely theoretical and did not interest me.

So expect a large percent of the ones who heard in early 2013, to buy in with significant money in 2015-2016. Unless they are slower to understand than I was, in which case it takes even longer.

I'm a little different. I first heard about bitcoin 15.11.2012.  ... 22.11.2012 I was bitcoin perma bull. :-)

Don't worry disillusion comes to you as well eventually.
FYI: I was a ultra-bull at the start too.
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
Cyprus thing is a joke. That was just speculative mania. I will ask you something: have you invested significant money in Bitcoin? If the answer is yes, how long did it take from the first moment you heard about it?

Again: entering into Bitcoin is a lengthy process - first you have to understand, not only what is Bitcoin but also how to keep your bitcoins safe. Then you have to find out how to buy them, and then you slowly start pouring money, just a little a the beginning.

That's everybody's process. When it will come the day that the average citizen will have the understanding and the means to quickly throw a lot of fiat into Bitcoin after the kind of news we had in March, then.... Well, you cannot imagine the kind of huge motherfucking bubbles we are going to see.

I have to agree with this 100%.

It took me 1 week to put $17 cash into an envelope and mail it to canada to buy my first coins. 2 more weeks to have a miner setup and initiated a bank transfer to gox. I consider that pretty fast and that was only possible because I had all kinds of prerequisites already in place (understanding of crypto, understanding of double spend problem, understanding of p2p network). I had to talk to noone to confirm this thing was legit and most likely functional. There was no misleading press or ponzi accusations all over the net either, which should slow the process even more in this day and age.

Average nowadays is probably more like 6 weeks from first exposure to first substantial buy.

We're thinking too short-term. There's all kinds of buffers (delays) and feedback loops in this system that need time to play out.
Seconded.  If you're a goldbug libertarian with technical background and high risk tolerance, it's possible you might "get it" and buy relatively quickly, within a few weeks.  But that would be very unusual.  My experience with anyone lacking that magical quatrifecta, is that it takes months of investigating and being prodded before any action.  There are people I've been talking to about Bitcoin for almost two years, are positive about it, but still haven't pulled the trigger.

It took me more than a year of constant (weekly) highly intelligent exposure to bitcoin, before I bought any. It took an additional year and more, before I allocated a significant % of my holdings to it. I even knew of Bitcoin before Mt.Gox opened, and that was purely theoretical and did not interest me.

So expect a large percent of the ones who heard in early 2013, to buy in with significant money in 2015-2016. Unless they are slower to understand than I was, in which case it takes even longer.

I'm a little different. I first heard about bitcoin 15.11.2012.  ... 22.11.2012 I was bitcoin perma bull. :-)
legendary
Activity: 1449
Merit: 1001



It took me more than a year of constant (weekly) highly intelligent exposure to bitcoin, before I bought any. It took an additional year and more, before I allocated a significant % of my holdings to it. I even knew of Bitcoin before Mt.Gox opened, and that was purely theoretical and did not interest me.

So expect a large percent of the ones who heard in early 2013, to buy in with significant money in 2015-2016. Unless they are slower to understand than I was, in which case it takes even longer.

It will be to late.



What I see is a very rapid growth. Today is only 5th of May, after all. I'd say hundreds of people understand it in May, and millions in June. In July it is too late to buy bitcoins for investment probably.


member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
something is missing, wouldn't be surprised to see 112-115 again
maybe then we see more buying volume and hence a more sustained rise above 120
if not we may well be back where we come from rather soon ...

weekend ahead doesn't make things easier neither

edit: typo
legendary
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Trusted Bitcoiner
legendary
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N12
donator
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Obviously, reptile is one of the smartest persons on the planet, so I'm afraid we will have to wait with 300k USD until next Easter, and not Christmas.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
Cyprus thing is a joke. That was just speculative mania. I will ask you something: have you invested significant money in Bitcoin? If the answer is yes, how long did it take from the first moment you heard about it?

Again: entering into Bitcoin is a lengthy process - first you have to understand, not only what is Bitcoin but also how to keep your bitcoins safe. Then you have to find out how to buy them, and then you slowly start pouring money, just a little a the beginning.

That's everybody's process. When it will come the day that the average citizen will have the understanding and the means to quickly throw a lot of fiat into Bitcoin after the kind of news we had in March, then.... Well, you cannot imagine the kind of huge motherfucking bubbles we are going to see.

I have to agree with this 100%.

It took me 1 week to put $17 cash into an envelope and mail it to canada to buy my first coins. 2 more weeks to have a miner setup and initiated a bank transfer to gox. I consider that pretty fast and that was only possible because I had all kinds of prerequisites already in place (understanding of crypto, understanding of double spend problem, understanding of p2p network). I had to talk to noone to confirm this thing was legit and most likely functional. There was no misleading press or ponzi accusations all over the net either, which should slow the process even more in this day and age.

Average nowadays is probably more like 6 weeks from first exposure to first substantial buy.

We're thinking too short-term. There's all kinds of buffers (delays) and feedback loops in this system that need time to play out.
Seconded.  If you're a goldbug libertarian with technical background and high risk tolerance, it's possible you might "get it" and buy relatively quickly, within a few weeks.  But that would be very unusual.  My experience with anyone lacking that magical quatrifecta, is that it takes months of investigating and being prodded before any action.  There are people I've been talking to about Bitcoin for almost two years, are positive about it, but still haven't pulled the trigger.

It took me more than a year of constant (weekly) highly intelligent exposure to bitcoin, before I bought any. It took an additional year and more, before I allocated a significant % of my holdings to it. I even knew of Bitcoin before Mt.Gox opened, and that was purely theoretical and did not interest me.

So expect a large percent of the ones who heard in early 2013, to buy in with significant money in 2015-2016. Unless they are slower to understand than I was, in which case it takes even longer.
legendary
Activity: 2492
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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
member
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Bitcoin Mininode...and proud!
Cyprus thing is a joke. That was just speculative mania. I will ask you something: have you invested significant money in Bitcoin? If the answer is yes, how long did it take from the first moment you heard about it?

Again: entering into Bitcoin is a lengthy process - first you have to understand, not only what is Bitcoin but also how to keep your bitcoins safe. Then you have to find out how to buy them, and then you slowly start pouring money, just a little a the beginning.

That's everybody's process. When it will come the day that the average citizen will have the understanding and the means to quickly throw a lot of fiat into Bitcoin after the kind of news we had in March, then.... Well, you cannot imagine the kind of huge motherfucking bubbles we are going to see.


This is what I was thinking aswell. I was actually thinking about doing a startup, a website where you can only buy Bitcoins. That's it, nothing else. Make it work INSTANTLY without any delays whatsoever, with common payment methods including Paypal (I think people can't put money in BTC's because Paypal is mostly unavailable, thats the problem I had when I first started) - Right now getting Bitcoins is a very long process that can take weeks if you take the Mt.Gox verification into account. On that website I could sell Bitcoins instantly, but maybe at a higher price than the current market situation [+5%] so I still make a profit.

I thought about maybe making a kickstarter for it or something similar but I don't know...
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