[ANN] POS is Fork Wars 2.0This is a part of an organized, large-scale social, economic, and political attack being built against Bitcoin. The overarching goal:
Make Bitcoin go POS.Since Bitcoin survived the Fork Wars, this is the next iteration of an attempt to usurp Bitcoin. To corrupt it. To turn it into a tame market-circus animal in the service of big banks and VCs.
Some Bitcoiners (
ahem, Jay) are too complacent about this. They underestimate the threat, and overestimate Bitcoin’s robustness against such threats. They forget that Bitcoin only won the Fork Wars because the Bitcoin community fought tooth and nail against a hostile takeover by liars and thieves. Not because of “King Daddy” bravado.
You may well be correct in regards to my not considering the matter as urgently as you seem to be considering it. I doubt that my head is in the sand, and for sure a lot of us can differ in regards to how high of a probability that we might assign to a certain set of events such as either a POS attack or that there would be any snowball's chance in hell such an attack would be successful in the ways that you suggest that it would be successful.
There are a lot of variations too, so I would hate to presume various kinds of success that the POS attackers might be able to have in terms of actually convincing any bitcoiners that POS is better or that POW is bad and all that bullshit.
I don't claim to be any kind of technical genius when it comes to various bitcoin intricacies, but I already commented quite a few times on the fact that POW is Bitcoin's innovation, so without POW, there is no bitcoin, so why the fuck would anyone with even half a brain want to concede any ground on that bullshit.
Did you see how far the Chris Larsen of Ripple campaign got? Yeah.. you might be suggesting that those same Larsen campaigners have the ear of the US president, and sure maybe they do, but do you believe that miners in the USA are just going to concede? Sure there are likely some overly compliant miners.. .. but miners are going to relocate too..
Anyhow.. I am not going to presume that everyone is just going to roll over, and if they create another bitcoin that has POS, then wouldn't most of us just stay on the POW system?
Others are pessimistic. I have spoken privately to people who have already given up: “POS will take over everything.” I have made to them the same argument: “What if we had said the same about Bcash?”
This is an “all hands on-deck” moment.
this is your pre-call to action? What do you want normies to do? Get involved in the anti-POS campaign and the pro-POW campaigns?
On a personal note, this is why I restarted posting a few days ago with what was supposed to be a throwaway account.
Between May 12 and May 29, I had some nightmare experiences with altcoins that showed me just how bad POS is—no really, it’s worse than you think. However bad you think it is, it is worse! POS means centralization and total corruption, period. My case against POS is far beyond the scope of this post. Rest assured that I am not exaggerating, and I can make the case point by point.
I doubt that you need to make any case that POS is not a good thing.. or that it is baloney or that it is a scam or that it does not work..
But I get a feeling that you are going to want to do that anyhow, even if you don't have to do that.. we already know it is bad.. so fucking what? Bitcoin is not going to POS..
All the POS chains, including any fork of bitcoin that goes to POS can suck a bag of dicks.. if not more than one bag of dicks.
I don’t idealize POW.
I do. POW is what made bitcoin... Bitcoin became a paradigm shifting invention based on POW.. that is the invention and the other aspects of it including the difficulty adjustment and a few other tweaks.. so POW.. seems to be the thing.. and there is about a snowball's chance in hell that bitcoin abandons POW.. retarded idea.. and sure, I don't doubt that people are going to try to get it to convert to POS.. but so fucking what.. they can fork off and do their POS chain, and bitcoin will continue as POW.. with only 1 million people rather than 20 million or whatever other crazy numbers that you want to suggest would migrate over to some kind of scam /nonsense chain that does not have any invention except for keeping the already rich rich.. that would not solve any of the things that bitcoin solves.. helrow? you really believe people are that dumb DW?
(I am gonna call you DW from now on to save on my number of characters that I have to type.. I don't want to go over my quota and then get in trouble from my bot handlers, if you know what I am trying to say.) - apparently you do otherwise you would not be being so dramatic about the whole topic.
I do recognize that it is the best solution yet invented to the problem to which Satoshi applied it. Criticizing POW to pump POS is a logical fallacy: POS doesn’t actually solve the same problem, and it creates new problems. To the most corrupt proponents of POS, that’s a feature, not a bug. But most POS believers are innocently naïve about this: Most people lack the requisite technical knowledge for a rigorous understanding of what POW achieves
I doubt that understanding the difference between POW and POS is as technical as you are making it out to be. Probably a 5-year old could understand the difference... or maybe an 11 year old.. whatever.. normies can understand the difference.. .maybe it follows an 80/20 distribution, and only 20% of the population understands the difference? Then so what, let the 80% of dumb twats go over and fuck around with the POS version of bitcoin.. who cares? We can still roll with the punches, and individually decide the extent to which we want to change our bitcoin investment thesis and go over to POS with the other dumb twats or stay invested in bitcoin (or should I say POW bitcoin?). What's the problem? people can decide what they want to do.. which one (or both) they want to invest in, and how much too, no?
, and why POS fails to achieve it. Until recently, I myself had only a moderate distaste for POS; I have invested in POS coins, considering it a minor flaw to be weighed against other factors. The corruption of POS is subtle and pernicious.
Maybe you are fighting against your own open-mindedness to POS, and you believe a lot of people will be "open-minded" like you? instead of just saying fuck POS. Don't get involved in that shit, even if "everyone else" is.
In the same time period, I came across something that I had missed while I was busy struggling not to get wrecked on margin:
The jackals are circling.*And one of my longtime favorite altcoins, a POW coin, announced that its dev team is actively working on a switch to POS!
POS has been growing like a cancer in the crypto ecosystem. I see it, because
I am not living in a Bitcoin echo-chamber. And I see the next step, because
I think strategically. When I put on my Evil Hat(TM), I ask myself,
How would I tame Bitcoin? The answer: Isolate Bitcoin as the only major POW coin, then make mass-propaganda that eventually places Bitcoin in the position of either switching to POS, or losing users to POS coins—
just as Solana’s founder has explicitly proclaimed on CNBC. Add in legal and regulatory attacks on POW—the threat is of a magnitude that Bitcoin has never yet encountered.
I am having some troubles understanding why we give more than one shit about what any of the shitcoiners are predicting is going to happen in regards to bitcoin in comparison to their shitcoin.. The various shitcoin promoters (lead scammers) have been making bullshit proclaiming in regards to the success of their coin and the failure of bitcoin since at least the time that I have been in bitcoin.. and sure.. it got worse in around 2015 after ethereum was around for a bit of time... but so still don't understand why we should care about their various proclamations, and it is starting to even seem to be distracting talking points that we should not even be addressing in this thread. Fuck that shit and fuck what the shitcoiners say.. hardly even relevant absent some actually compelling empirical facts rather than their mere wishenings.. and I do not consider loss of dominance or the supposed gain of dominance of their coin on coinmarket cap to be even close to compelling of evidence if they can get that to move in their preferred direction... blah blah blah.
It is irrelevant to me whether Bitcoin switches to POS, or Bitcoin is economically replaced by POS coins.
It's not irrelevant to me.
i doubt it is going to happen.. but sure there could be a fork of bitcoin into a POS coin.. and sure some of the miners could go over to that (if there is such a thing as a miner migration in such circumstances?).. and whatever, the POS miners or the sell out miners or whatever the fuck you want to call them can migrate their hashpower over to the new chain.. or maybe you speculate that the rebel miners are going to suddenly start attacking bitcoin blah blah blah.. ok.. it could happen.. but we have heard that nonsense before too.. so maybe we should cross that bridge if it happens.. we don't want to be caught off guard ... so sell all your bitcoins.. then . Good luck with that.
A POS “Bitcoin” would not be Bitcoin: It would be a tamed, denatured, corrupted fake-Bitcoin that serves Goldman Sachs, FTX, and VCs running P&D on crypto-Twitter, all at my expense. Its economics would become dishonest, because POS is an economic shell game—and it would be effectually centralized, under a thin veneer of fake “decentralization”.
At least you understand that.. A lot of other peeps understand that too.. so you want to educate people because we do not sufficiently understand? I am having my doubts about any kind of lack of understanding that is material and sufficient enough to make a difference.. and sure there might be a decent number of folks (back to the 80/20 rule) who might decide to go over to the new coin.. let them go.. and wish them luck making all of their POS money.. Even in the 80/20 scenario, we're still going to have 20%, no? Or do you consider the migration potential in a worser case scenario to be at higher levels than that?
Seeing the writing on the wall, I came home to the Bitcoin Forum
** and tried to settle in, let people get to know me a bit—then prepare here for my next step, a carefully planned multi-prong strategy I have in mind for
all-out, all-fronts defense against the POSification of all “crypto”. It’s a shame that some low-grade trolls wish to deter positive community contributions.
As I remarked before, they do not care about Bitcoin.Maybe this forum has degenerated into utter uselessness. We’ll see.
Hm? So if we do not agree with the urgency of your campaign, then we are useless? Even if you are even engaging in a preferred campaign, just like Don Quixote was engaged in a preferred campaign also.. No?
Disclosures:
If Bitcoin ever goes POS, I will dump BTC. I don’t know to what. There is no alternative, no backup plan. I don’t know what the hell I will do. This is a fight to the finish—all-in, no compromises.
You really believe that it is all or nothing? BTC is not fucking going to POS.. what the fuck? are you delusional?
Sure, some folks are going to campaign for bitcoin to go POS. and there might be some convincing campaigns of misinformation that could lead to a hardfork..
Then we don't necessarily need to sell our BTC (original - or our BTC POW or whatever we are calling it... BTC classic).. Again, cross that bridge when we get there or we can see how the whole campaign evolves, if it even gets to 1st base.. those disingenuine POS twats likely don't have as great of odds as you are giving them.
I have no past or present economic interest or investment in POW. I never did mining; my involvement in Bitcoin and in some POW altcoins has only been in other ways. Maybe I will get into mining in the future. If so, that will be motivated primarily by the principle of supporting POW decentralization—not primarily motivated by money, other than “I must do break-even or better here.” A high-risk, effort-intensive, hypercompetitive business with high upfront capital investment and razor-thin operating margins is not exactly what I personally enjoy doing. Some people love it—I’m glad they do!
Sure.. you can mine. or run a node or both or buy bitcoin.. or campaign against POS.. or just sit back and sure there are a variety of options and some of them are more involved than others.
Footnotes:
* That’s a double blow to me, because I have been excited about Solana’s technology. The implementation is a dumpster fire compared to Bitcoin Core; but it has some interesting ideas, and much potential.
I’m not criticizing it to please the WO crowd. To the contrary. In April, I spent weeks avidly studying Solana’s rusty source code—foremost trying to learn enough so that I could do something to make money in their ecosystem, pay off my margin debt, and save my BTC.
I like their ideas on a crypto-nerd “wow, cool” level, and I enjoy coding for their runtime. But I am disappointed by the code quality and, in practice, the absurd unreliability. When my standards for the quality of financial software engineering are set by Bitcoin Core, it spoils everything else.
Fuck discussions of that shitcoin Solana.. who fucking cares? Take that somewhere else.
I was planning that once I stabilize myself financially, I wanted to pitch in, contribute to Solana, help to improve it. I have fresh ideas for mitigating the account lock contention issues in the TPU; lock contention is the primary cause of Solana’s “degraded performance” under high load. Solana devs have been struggling with this for months, to no avail; check their GH issues. It’s a hard problem, but not intractable. Fix lock contention, close a few more DOS vectors, do some network optimization, improve code quality, tighten up the security of the development process, and Solana will be awesome!
Any Solana dev who reads this will understand what I just said. Any Solana dev who reads this will know that I am an earnest, competent potential contributor. Not a WO Solana-hater.
But now, I am furious at Solana. Solana’s founder should have considered that if he attacks Bitcoin, then instead of Bitcoin losing users, Solana loses people like me. And I’d wager I am not alone in that. There must be not a few developers who may be attracted to Solana’s technology, but who will be outraged and disgusted by what its founder said about Bitcoin.
Again, who fucking cares about your explorations with that shitcoin, aka Solana.. ? It's hardly inspiring to find out details of your wasting your time with one of the many (20k of them, no?) shitcoins.
** I obviously have long experience with
many accounts on this forum.
Not only one or two. I will neither acknowledge the accounts that are mine, nor deny wrong guesses; why should I?
This is a privacy forum, founded by a pseudonymous Tor user.
The administration explicitly allows, and sometimes encourages the use of alt accounts. I have never done anything wrong. I have never had any accounts banned; I can freely wake any of them, anytime I want. I have never abused multiple identities for fraudulent purposes. I have never bought or sold accounts; I am strongly opposed to account sales, even though it is technically allowed by the forum rules. And I have never sock-puppetted; those who accuse me of “sock-puppetting” do not know what the term means.
My identities and pseudonyms are nobody’s business but my own.
If they are nobody's business, then why are you spending so much time explaining them? Also if you don't know what sock-puppeting is, then how would you know that you have never done it? #asking for a friend.. hahahahahaha
Again.. did I remember not to forget to say.... fuck your shitcoin discussions in this thread... you seem to be polluting our minds with that irrelevant and distracting nonsense.
