Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 4703. (Read 26608813 times)

You are correct Richy, including the implication that philip may well be getting his "bitcoin"s mixed up.. to the extent that there are "other bitcoins" out there in fantasylandia.


I agree with your overall point wxa7115, but something is wrong with your lost billfold analogy.  Bitcoin is a bearer instrument like cash, so who ever has it is the presumptive owner, but changing the protocol to create a "have to spend" or "have to move" is a kind of different kind of problem that surely touches upon monetary policy that is quite unlikely to change based on currently existing consensus dynamics that are likely NOT going to significantly change merely because we go from 1% world adoption to 50% or more world adoption... or whatever scenarios are imagined to cause such desire changes in consensus in that direction.. even assuming that some folks want to change the protocol in that direction (and engage in warfare to attempt to change the protocol in that direction.. not likely to happen.).


For sure, 21 BTC was way more reachable when you first became a forum member, but still it is understandable that it can take a while to actually 1) focus on BTC accumulation or 2) even have enough resources to actually garner up to stack BTC - even if you might have known about the bullish case for bitcoin back then.  

Just think about back then (2015-ish).. some forum guys might have been saying that they were shooting to accumulate up to 21 BTC, and some other forum members might have proclaimed that they already have reached 3x those entry-level aspirations.  Keep in mind through much of 2015, BTC prices were in the mid-$200s, so it would not be unreasonable for a guy to buy BTC at $250 or even $300 per BTC, so even assuming the purchase at the higher $300 price per BTC, the 21 BTC would have cost a mere $6,300 and of course, 3x the target size of 63 BTC would have cost $18,900..  

A lot of those amounts of investment into BTC seem reasonable now, even though back then, it would have likely still seemed like a lot of money to be putting into BTC, especially considering how scared a lot of normie folks seemed to have been about BTC through much of 2015 with the BTC prices staying down there and bouncing around largely in the $200s for most of that year.

Explanation

@JJG

It was just a legit car dealer with only legit transfers in and out…

I think the bank just doesn’t wanna deal with BTC transactions anymore….

There loss imo

You are wrong especially because you are asserting that something that is speculative into the future is guaranteed to happen, and part of the thing about the future is that it has not yet happened, so there is some variation in what might happen and what ends up happening.. so for example, once it happens, it has happened, and sometimes there is dispute about that, so difficult to guarantee something in the future is going to happen unless you completely control it and the timeline that you are predicting is pretty soon^tm rather than unspecified and distant into the future.



Is this an actual bitcoin rule or something that someone is planning to propose?



Call me clueless, if you must.  Go on; do it.


Last time I checked bitcoin no does not work by vote; it works by consensus... Voting and consensus are differing concepts  You may need to tweak your language a wee bit, and maybe coming out less aggressively in terms of your supposed ability to predict the future might be a wee bit helpful too. #justsaying


Been there; done that.

You are late the party, nanobtc.. .you party poop.


That's part of the irony, no?  There are going to be guys who had been struggling to get to a portfolio of 21 BTC or even those guys who had been struggling to get to 10 BTC, like the supposed mindrust BTC portfolio situation of having had reached 10 BTC in March 2020.. and then suddenly giving up on the prospect.  

The guys who have actually accumulated into the 10 BTC to 21 BTC territory are likely soon to be going to be on the verge of having to think about where their fuck you status is going to trigger, and surely everyone's fuck you status is at a different place.. could be as low as $500k in value or could be $10 million-ish or higher in value, but using $2 million as a broad-level generalization of a entry level fuck you status does not seem to be a unrealistic number.  

If we refer to BTC spot price, it surely is not going to be too long for even some of those guys in the 10 BTC to 21 BTC territory, to be having to give serious considerations to their entry-level fuck you status....   yet, as you likely recall, I am not too fond of using BTC spot price for that kind of BTC valuation reference point, even though for sure we can be skimming off some BTC from time to time at whatever happens to be the spot prices and also considering how difficult it might be for others (such as newbie normies) to acquire BTC when we are measuring spot prices, too...

But sure, for the purpose of assessing net worth and evaluating the value of our BTC, it seems way better to be using the 104-week moving average or the 208-week moving average, so 10 BTC to 21 BTC is not going to be enough to trigger the general fuck you status when using those valuating methods.

Surely, I am not going to want to be a party poop.. even though at spot price, those guys with 10 BTC to 21 BTC should be feeling quite well these days, even if they might not feel comfortable in terms of having had gotten to a kind of entry level fuck you status base on foundational (and bottom potential BTC prices).

And, yes another irony of the more newbie normie guys are likely going to be struggling to get to 0.21 BTC and even those who have acquired 1 BTC or even 2.1 BTC are going to be moving along up the scale of wealth as well, and realizing that they are holding quantities of BTC that are becoming more and more difficult for other newbie normies to achieve absent some considerable commitment that may well include contribution of both time and money to throw at the situation for a considerable amount of time before starting to feel some comforts in the quantity of BTC within holdings.

So for sure, even if a guy takes a few months to get to 0.21BTC, he then would set goals to get to 1 BTC and then 2.1BTC, and realize that it can take a whole hell of a lot of time to stack a sufficient amount of sats to reach those quantities of BTC... but gosh, even at spot price, we are likely going to be seeing circumstances in the next 2-3 cycles that cause all three of those statuses of 0.21 BTC, 1 BTC and/or 2.1 BTC to become very difficult, if not impossible for newbie normies to achieve..

....and sure it might start making sense to be talking about these stacking goal achievement aspirational matters in terms of satoshis, so even the 0.21 BTC person will have achieved 21 million satoshis, and so in the relatively near future (including the 10-year timeline that you mentioned), we are likely going to be looking at normie newbies who are striving to get up to 1 million satoshis.. and wanting to be a satoshi millionaire in terms of their entry-level aspirations - even presuming that reaching 1 million satoshis might be possible in 10 years for newbie normies, and that level might be a bit too much of a presumption.

Of course, I am going to assert that none of these price appreciation matters are guaranteed, even though it likely remains good, reasonable and prudent practices to keep those kinds of numbers in mind when we are stacking sats and if we get to 21 million sats or 63 million sats in these times and we consider if those are high enough numbers, they may well have decent chances of being numbers that are quite a bit more difficult to achieve for newbie normies in 10 years (and even much shorter timeframes than that)... We will see.. we will see.  

Of course, even very well to do multi-millionaires in the traditional status quo circles of wealth will have easier times reallocating some of their wealth into bitcoin in the coming years when they finally see the light, but even they are going to have harder and harder times getting a decent bitcoin stake, especially if they are currently no coiners and/or they are way too reluctant, currently, to take even a reasonable stake in bitcoin.. so sure, those multi-millionaires might be able to buy 1 BTC or even 2.1 BTC, but it may well cost them several million dollars to acquire such a bitcoin stake.. and even then, they might consider that if they allocate 10% to 20% of their quasi-liquid investable wealth into bitcoin, which might add up to several million dollars, they are still only getting a couple of BTC at best.

Several of us longer term WO members will realize what I am saying is not likely to be much of a fantasy, even though to outsiders (and no coiners) and people who are having trouble grokking bitcoin, are likely having troubles considering these matters in ways that are not anything other than fantastical views about the future of finances, the economy and bitcoin's likely place within that as the soundest money known to man, so far.  But many of us realize.. even though none of this is guaranteed, we know still know that not being guaranteed still allows for preparing in ways that a lot of normies are still failing and refusing to engage in such preparations, even modestly which could actually make an enormous difference for them to get into BTC now, rather than waiting one or two more cycles or even 10 years, like you suggested, LFC.

Ok that makes sense..
Yeah I remember the usual goal being 21 BTC, then Kindof 2.1, and now 0.21 I guess..

As the price goes up by an order of magnitude, iguess a good goal should go down by the same..

I sure don’t have 21 BTC LOL..

Good luck getting people to agree on THAT change. Won't ever happen

Going for hodlsleep

Victorious evening.
R.A.F.C.
Right under full Moon.

Haiku

Explanation

That will be the death of bitcoin, besides it does not make sense as it goes against everything bitcoin stands for and it goes against common sense as well.

If I take the bus and I lose my wallet with some money inside even if the wallet is lost all the contents still belong to me, if someone finds it and then takes that money for themselves it is still stealing, the same logic applies to lost coins, even if the coins cannot be claimed by their owners they are still the legitimate owners of those coins and taking them away in any way or form is stealing, at that point I might as well open a bank account at Cyprus and let them steal my funds as they did years ago.

There are some that think that this is CSW's motive behind BSV based on various things that he has said. I don't really see it happening with BTC but it's not impossible. There's also the possibility of quantum computing meaning that private keys will no longer secure and BTC will have to be moved to a more secure scheme or be swept by those with the capability.

Make sure to check the ratings on those. They're often not that impressive. Not that I'm recommending bank boxes either.

@JJG

Quite incredible that we’re sitting here applauding the achievement of people stacking 0.21BTC. Many of us here are already esteemed gentlemen but it’ll be nice in say 10 years to see current noobs as members who have made it.

Good times, good times.

What are some of the background aspects?  Did the bank make some kind of a connection to BTC?

Were deposits or withdrawals related to BTC?  Did the guy have other sources of income and sometimes if there is some other business connected with the person (or account) then the bank will allow more high amount volumes of in and out because there is a business entity that is also connected with the account. 

Might need a few more background facts, duderino.


Exactamente, eddie.  That seems to be 3x the amount of our current generally applicable BTC accumulation goal that we would like to impose upon newbies... gotta start somewhere and surely nice to be 3x the current initial BTC accumulation goal.

Newbies coming into bitcoin are likely going to have to start out with some kind of a target BTC accumulation level, and several of us have been considering 1 BTC as a wee bit too high of a entry level target accumulation level, so a newbie is going to have to work his/her way up the ladder of BTC accumulation, and surely some normie newbies will be able to be more aggressive than others.

A kind of reasonable and practical and generally applicable starting point would be for newbies to try to set some kind of reachable goal and to get to 0.21 BTC.. it has some symbolism to it, and it is way more "reachable" than shooting for 1 BTC right from the start.  At today's BTC prices, 0.21BTC would a bit less than $10k but still reasonably reachable.

I had been asserting that older time bitcoiners have likely reached and or exceeded the target levels of newbie bitcoiners, and I have even conceded (admitted) that I have accumulated more than 3x the level of a newbie BTC investor.. so I am kind of richie status.. relatively speaking...especially compared with a newbie who is just starting to accumulate BTC.. .maybe starting with DCA investing at $10 per week or being more aggressive with $100 per week, or even if there might even be more aggressive approaches that involve lump sum investing too.... depending on how much lump sum that might be available and also depending on how much cashflow is available and other financial and psychological circumstances.

We each have to start somewhere and some times the longer that you are into bitcoin the more that you are able to accumulate.  Even with you, eddie, you have a forum registration date of October 2015, so you likely could remember that there might have been some transition between having 21 BTC as a goal or 10 BTC as a goal, but the goal amounts have been coming down through the years.. especially for newbies, and especially considering what kinds of goals might be reasonable to attempt to reach, on a broader level.. even though of course, individual circumstances can vary, too.  So we surely did go down from 10 BTC to 1 BTC and now 0.21 BTC is starting to seem like a fairly reasonable BTC accumulation point, especially for a newbie, and then if the goal is achieved, then to perhaps create higher and higher BTC accumulation targets that of course would be attempted to be reasonably tailored to personal circumstances, too.

Here is gist of it...PTB cannot hold their wealth in rapidly inflating fiat..it's just a fact, everything else is secondary.
I choose bitcoin to have some say in my monetary situation.
All those worries about poor consumer 'protection' are as fake as it gets.
5-6% inflation, 0.01% in bank deposits interest. Is there something wrong with these numbers, lol?
Pay us on cash deposits, and NOT in 2024!

Explanation

No, Dear God no......

Zero reason to do it. No benefit.

I can guarantee you that lost btc address will eventually be subject to forfeit much like an old bank account with no action gets grabbed.

An untouched btc address in terms of no funds ever removed will be considered lost .


The funds will be folded back into mining rewards for blocks.

To anyone that thinks I am wrong I simply laugh.

Zero reason not to do it. Say in 2059 all 2009 address must show some withdrawal or lost.

To those that say no privacy I say you are clueless.

To those that say it will be outvoted maybe in 2059 it will be outvoted but down the road say 2084 or 2109 it will be out voted.

@BitcoinMagazine
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